F-18 Jet

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Archive 2004 · F-18 Jet

DBevis
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p.4 #1 · F-18 Jet

Not to take away from an excellent photo, but...

Actually, the effect is unrelated to the sound barrier (despite the notation on the McDonnell Douglas website showing a similar image and making this claim).

It's simply that moist air enters a zone created by the airfoil (wings) that imparts a change in velocity, thus a decrease in pressure, which is what causes the water molecules to condense. The key factor is the pressure differential, not the absolute velocity.

This can and does happen below the "speed of sound" and it's a virtual certainty that NO mach 1+ flights are occurring within populated areas and especially at low altitudes.

Sep 09, 2004 at 01:31 AM

SYN ACK
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p.4 #2 · F-18 Jet

we stated this on the first page

Sep 09, 2004 at 02:00 AM

DBevis
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p.4 #3 · F-18 Jet

SYN ACK wrote:
we stated this on the first page :)

No, the cause was incorrectly stated as: "When brea[k]ing the sound barrier,..." and this effect is not related to the sound barrier, but rather is dependent on the temperature, pressure (fluctuations) and presence of sufficient a quantity of water molecules to condense. Refer to "Prandtl-Glauert Singularity" for detailed explanation. The only connection is that an appropriate pressure differential is more likely with, but not required by, the aircraft reaching Mach 1. In fact, most examples of this phenomenon are cited as "slightly subsonic".

I maintain that an airshow demonstration at low altitude, over land, and in a populated area, would not involve supersonic flight.

Sep 09, 2004 at 02:38 AM

Dennis
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p.4 #4 · F-18 Jet

DBevis wrote:
Not to take away from an excellent photo, but...

Actually, the effect is unrelated to the sound barrier (despite the notation on the McDonnell Douglas website showing a similar image and making this claim).

It's simply that moist air enters a zone created by the airfoil (wings) that imparts a change in velocity, thus a decrease in pressure, which is what causes the water molecules to condense. The key factor is the pressure differential, not the absolute velocity.

This can and does happen below the "speed of sound" and it's a virtual certainty that NO mach 1+ flights are occurring within populated areas and especially at low altitudes.

Thanks for the compliments on the image, and yes I have learned that this is the case for this image and not the sound barrier. Still this is all interesting just the same.

Again thanks for the details on the effect

Sep 09, 2004 at 03:14 AM

jtgray
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p.4 #5 · F-18 Jet

Well first of all nice image but being in the navy I see this all the time. Only thing it looks more like an F-14 than a F/A-18. There are thousands of these shots taken every year by military photographers. As far as marketing it Im sure that someone would want this its a great capture

Sep 09, 2004 at 04:13 AM

Dennis
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p.4 #6 · F-18 Jet

jtgray wrote:
Well first of all nice image but being in the navy I see this all the time. Only thing it looks more like an F-14 than a F/A-18. There are thousands of these shots taken every year by military photographers. As far as marketing it Im sure that someone would want this its a great capture

Well first off all thanks for the comment on the image.

No you throw a curve into the plane type at me...Grin! But I have an email from the pilot that flow that day and I will ask him to confirm the Jet for me so that I have all the facts for the image.

I'm sure that an image like this is taken by military photographers all over the world, but for us civilians it's not a common thing for us to see.

Thanks for sharing this information on this image.

Sep 09, 2004 at 03:21 PM

Simba
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p.4 #7 · F-18 Jet

That web site photo is definitely an F18 by the look of the nose. I agree that this looks more like an F16

Sep 09, 2004 at 03:59 PM

Joseph Marney
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p.4 #8 · F-18 Jet

I captured a B1 Bomber at the airshow last year in the same stage, although my capture isn't nearly as good as yours...
This years show starts in about 2 weeks--can't wait to go back out there!

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Sep 09, 2004 at 04:03 PM

Dennis
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p.4 #9 · F-18 Jet

Simba wrote:
That web site photo is definitely an F18 by the look of the nose. I agree that this looks more like an F16

Thanks for sharing your image, neat I like it.

Gee here is the confusion some one thinks it's an F-14 and you with an F-16.

I can clear this up, the pilot sent me an email requesting a copy of the image here to be sent to him and a copy of the print when I get that done. I will ask him for the details to this jet so that I have all the details at hand.

Now I'm confused!

Sep 09, 2004 at 04:25 PM

jtgray
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p.4 #10 · F-18 Jet

F-16? Uhh where is the big intake under the fuselage?..........

Anyways the pilot will confirm that is an F/A-18... I was wrong about it being a F-14. It is a newer F/A-18 SUPERHORNET

Sep 09, 2004 at 05:22 PM

Tim Adams
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p.4 #11 · F-18 Jet

This is the airplane in question. It is an F-18F. It looks much different than the old F-18 version flown by the Blue Angels. I saw both side by side this year. This was my glimpse at fame but I cut the nose off!!

Sep 09, 2004 at 06:22 PM

jtgray
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p.4 #12 · F-18 Jet

adamsti wrote:
This is the airplane in question. It is an F-18F. It looks much different than the old F-18 version flown by the Blue Angels. I saw both side by side this year. This was my glimpse at fame but I cut the nose off!!

exactly . You can tell the differences between the 18's by the shape of the intakes the newer super hornets are square and the older version are rounded.

Sep 09, 2004 at 07:00 PM

Dennis
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p.4 #13 · F-18 Jet

Wow thats to bad about the nose being cut out of the frame this would have been a nice image, and with that said it still is a nice image just the same.

Thanks for sharing this image with me....

Gee the Blue Angles have not flown at the CNE for some time now, I really miss seeing them fly here. Maybe soon, that would be nice.

Thanks again, best regards

Sep 09, 2004 at 07:03 PM

JackBarlow
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p.4 #14 · F-18 Jet

Awesome shot Dennis.
The Blue Angels are due to fly here in Va Beach in two weeks. Take a Road Trip!

john

Sep 09, 2004 at 07:52 PM

Simba
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p.4 #15 · F-18 Jet

I screwed up, I meant F14, but it appears that is even wrong. Sorry.

Sep 09, 2004 at 10:26 PM

Dennis
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p.4 #16 · F-18 Jet

JackBarlow wrote:
Awesome shot Dennis.
The Blue Angels are due to fly here in Va Beach in two weeks. Take a Road Trip!

john

Thanks for the compliments on the image.

I'm on vacation now and that would be one long drive from Toronto thats for sure. But just the same I will pass on this drive down.

Thanks again

Sep 10, 2004 at 01:14 AM

Dennis
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p.4 #17 · F-18 Jet

Simba wrote:
I screwed up, I meant F14, but it appears that is even wrong. Sorry.

Well, this will clear the question for you.

Some one was very kind to send me in the right direction for a contact, that contact was not the pilot, but he knew the pilot flying for that day.

He passed on the information to him along with the image although small, and then sent me a message himself. Which was nice.

I mentioned that I would send him a print of the image, and asked what size he wanted. 5X7 or 8X10. He came back with POSTER Size for his wall.

Here is that e-mail along with plane information:

You are right, the aircraft we flew is and F/A-18F Super Hornet aka "Rhino". The airspeed is subsonic, but very close to the speed of sound. Thanks for the photograph series, that is cool. As far as size goes, I would love a print that is poster size. I guess you will have to let me know if the photo will look good at that size. I would like to frame it in a matte for my "I love me" wall. If you need more details, let me know. I look forward to seeing what else you captured. Thanks again.

I hope this helps clear up the plane flown in the image....

Sep 10, 2004 at 01:21 AM

singlo
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p.4 #18 · F-18 Jet

AGreat shots. As the aircraft flies close to Mach one or the critical Mach number. Two supersonic pockets are formed at the upper and lower surfaces of the wing, which are termined by shock waves. A shock wave is a very thin layer of air molecules charcateriesed by sudden changes in local airpeed, pressure, temperature and air density. The condensation is caused by sudden drop in local static pressure, as the flow accelerates past the speed of sound and goes supersonic inside the supersonic pockets. Incidentally I teach aerospace engineering and aerodynamics in university......

Sep 10, 2004 at 08:39 PM

pixelpushr
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p.4 #19 · F-18 Jet

Impressive!!

Sep 10, 2004 at 08:41 PM

KapHn8d™
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p.4 #20 · F-18 Jet

I've seen this a few times when I was in the Navy. If you do a quick google search, you will find a ton of videos with similar caps... ie. http://www.extremefunnypictures.com/funnypic401.htm

anyway, you have captured it well here... congrats!

Sep 10, 2004 at 08:44 PM

JohnVH
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p.4 #21 · F-18 Jet

I have talked to a couple F/A18 pilots, they were telling me how once you get to that point, you can control where that 2" thick area is on the aircraft, one pilot had it right on his canopy area, and as he sped up it went forward, he slowed down it would move back.

Must be awesome to be in that position!!

Sep 10, 2004 at 09:22 PM

Dennis
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p.4 #22 · F-18 Jet

singlo wrote:
AGreat shots. As the aircraft flies close to Mach one or the critical Mach number. Two supersonic pockets are formed at the upper and lower surfaces of the wing, which are termined by shock waves. A shock wave is a very thin layer of air molecules charcateriesed by sudden changes in local airpeed, pressure, temperature and air density. The condensation is caused by sudden drop in local static pressure, as the flow accelerates past the speed of sound and goes supersonic inside the supersonic pockets. Incidentally I teach aerospace engineering and aerodynamics in university......

Well first off all thanks for the compliment on the image, and also for how this effect happens, as a civilian we don't see this that often, so it is a big thing to me to see this happen. But I'm finding that this is a very common thing to happen.

Again thanks for the information

Sep 11, 2004 at 02:12 AM

Dennis
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p.4 #23 · F-18 Jet

pixelpushr wrote:
Impressive!!

Thanks for the compliments

Sep 11, 2004 at 02:13 AM

Dennis
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p.4 #24 · F-18 Jet

KapHn8d™ wrote:
I've seen this a few times when I was in the Navy. If you do a quick google search, you will find a ton of videos with similar caps... ie. http://www.extremefunnypictures.com/funnypic401.htm

anyway, you have captured it well here... congrats!

Yes I hear that this is a common thing to happen, but those that are not exposed to jets alot don't see this unless at an air show, and I have seen many here in Toronto, and this is the first for me.

As for the link thanks for sending that, I have seen this the other day from another user.

Thanks again.

Sep 11, 2004 at 02:16 AM

Dennis
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p.4 #25 · F-18 Jet

JohnVH wrote:
I have talked to a couple F/A18 pilots, they were telling me how once you get to that point, you can control where that 2" thick area is on the aircraft, one pilot had it right on his canopy area, and as he sped up it went forward, he slowed down it would move back.

Must be awesome to be in that position!!

You are right that would be neat to see this done.... For me though I rather keep my feet on the ground, I don't think that my stomach could take the G-Force......

Sep 11, 2004 at 02:19 AM


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