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Archive 2013 · Sell D600 and buy D3 ?

Frogfish
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Sell D600 and buy D3 ?

My prime camera is the D800E with the D600 (infrequently used) as back up (usually when I take both cameras and load a tele on the D800E and landscape or general use lens on the D600). Bird photography comprises more than 50% of my photography (the rest being landscape, travel, street, family & friends).

The D800E is a fantastic birding camera (despite the low FPS rate) due to it's ability to provide large files (of small birds) which can be deeply cropped, even 1:1, and still easily be printable at 11x14 or larger.

I'm now torn (whilst waiting for a D400

) between keeping the D600 and selling it (for ca. US$1,350) and buying a 40k actuation D3 (excellent, virtually as new, condition) for US$2,300. I gain a lot but lose the 'cropability' of the D600 as my back up birding camera (very rarely used) but for other uses the D600 is probably a better camera with it's higher DR. What would you do ? Anyone been done this or been down a similar road ?

Sep 09, 2013 at 12:28 AM

JimFox
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Sell D600 and buy D3 ?

I haven't been down that road. But I will say for a backup camera, it doesn't make sense that you are going to have to spend $1000 more to downgrade to a lesser camera (in regards to IQ).

Don't get me wrong, the D3 is an awesome camera, but it seems crazy to spend $1000 to essentially go backwards. Save the money and wait for the D400 and spend it on that.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

Jim

Sep 09, 2013 at 01:11 AM

Frogfish
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Sell D600 and buy D3 ?

Jim

I know you are probably right Jim and I just need someone with common sense to talk me out of it (when does that ever apply to LBA, CBA though)

However I just thought that maybe with the D800E capable of covering all of my areas of interest, and the D3 most of them, that for birding the D3 may be better than the D600 and yet still be almost as capable in all other areas.

Sep 09, 2013 at 02:09 AM

Paul_K
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Sell D600 and buy D3 ?

IMO the major thing to take into account is what lenses you have and what you use the camera for.

I used to shoot surf photography with a D2x and usually a 4/200-400 zoom, which whith the crop factor meant a virtual 300-600 in the standard DX mode and 400-800 in HSC mode

When I switched to a D3, the 200-400 simply was too short (also because I don't like the IQ of the D3 in DX mode), so I had to use a 4/600 mm with a 1.4 TC to get a similar telerange as I used before. But the IQ and high ISO of the D3 was so much better that for me it was well worth the costs.

On the other hand the added weight of the 600mm was a real world issue, and the reason I rejoiced when the D800 hit the market with a 16MP DX mode and AF on par with the D3, and for me only a minimal loss of fps of 6,5 vs the 7 fps I used on the D3 (11 fps is nice but even with the upgraded buffer only allowed maximum three second bursts) wich meant I could switch back to my 200-400 zoom (even with a TC) as standard lens for surf again

I now use both the D800 and D3, and even if at times they overlap, each have specific advantages which in certain situations make one the better choice over the other (D800 when I really need a lot of pixels, D3 when I have to shoot fast without too much worries over shooting technique and carefull focussing)

As far as the D3 is concerned, it already has excellent DR even if the latest models have improved in that respect (basically the everlasting question: 'does my older camera stops taking great pictures now that a newer model has appeared?').

Compared to the D600 it has faster AF, higher fps, better built quality (no oil spots

), all in all is a sturdier body.

The D600 has more pixels and thus more room to crop afterwards, reportedly a better DR over the already excellent DR of the D3, but overall is a more prosumer orientated body (which translates in lower built quality of the body, and which may be an issue when shooting under rough, e.g. wet and cold, conditions) with slower AF responsiveness, shutter lag and fps, things which may weigh heavily when having to shoot fast and still reliably under less then ideal conditions.

So IMO to start with, getting a D3 rather then a D600 is not downgrading. And the deciding factor should not be pixels (after all, history shows that todays top MP wonder always is tomorrows slouch), but real life overall demands for the intended camera use like AF, fps, shutter lag, sturdiness etc.

My two cents

Sep 09, 2013 at 04:20 AM

trenchmonkey
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Sell D600 and buy D3 ?

Frogster, fully 1/2 of my shooting is BIF and have NO trouble recommending the D3/gripped D700
over the D600. Great new high MP sensor aside, what good is the jump in IQ and cleaner high ISO...
if you don't get the shot.

My keeper rates with the D3/D700 are absolutely obscene. Just sayin'

Sep 09, 2013 at 05:51 AM

hijazist
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Sell D600 and buy D3 ?

You have a great pixel/DR beast in the D800E so I am leaning towards a D3 to add some variety to your equipment. If I had a 911 as my main car then I wouldn't want a Boxter as a back up but rather a Land Cruiser/Rover for those times when I am going off road (not that I have any lol) ... I know the analogy is not even close but you get the idea

Sep 09, 2013 at 06:40 AM

ffstory
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Sell D600 and buy D3 ?

trenchmonkey wrote:
Frogster, fully 1/2 of my shooting is BIF and have NO trouble recommending the D3/gripped D700
over the D600. Great new high MP sensor aside, what good is the jump in IQ and cleaner high ISO...
if you don't get the shot.

My keeper rates with the D3/D700 are absolutely obscene. Just sayin'

True. But keep in mind that the D600 can autofocus too and although its AF is less reliable than D700/D3, especially in low light, it is very capable, better than anything we had a few years ago.

However, when I shoots birds, even with the D600 I manage to achieve the focus somehow. In fact many of my pictures have been achieved by focusing manually or automatically with manual override. And yes, many of my shoots are out of the focus. BIF requires a lot of patience and card space. no matter what camera I use I can't get avery picture I want. But, once you get the focus, it is always better to have more pixels on your scene and more generous RAW with a plenty of DR headroom and lower noise

People are fascinated by AF focus performance of bodies. In fact my experience is that having high keeper rate when shooting action is roughly 40% about lens, 30% experience and 30% camera. In fact I would be more confident shooting birds with D40x and 300/2.8 rather than D3 with lets say 28-300/3.5-5.6....

Back to the original question. If the OP already has a D800E, I think the D600 is indeed redundant. In this case I would probably want a responsive camera for action as second body. D3s or D3 to complement D800E. Action body and high resolution body are perfect combo. There is a reason why many high-profile nature photographers use D4+D800.

Sep 09, 2013 at 07:02 AM

ocir
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Sell D600 and buy D3 ?

If the primary reason is "birding", why not the D7100? It's af and fps are superior than the D600.

Sep 09, 2013 at 07:04 AM

Two23
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Sell D600 and buy D3 ?

JimFox wrote:
I haven't been down that road. But I will say for a backup camera, it doesn't make sense that you are going to have to spend $1000 more to downgrade to a lesser camera (in regards to IQ).

Don't get me wrong, the D3 is an awesome camera, but it seems crazy to spend $1000 to essentially go backwards. Save the money and wait for the D400 and spend it on that.

Read again what the OP photos--birds. For that, the AF system on the D600 is clearly inferior. Image quality becomes moot if the shot isn't in focus. A D600 is the last camera from Nikon that I would buy for birds in flight. The D3 is much more capable for that. For birding, I'd actually be using a D7100. It's 24mp are more concentrated, it will focus as fast as any other Nikon (and in lower light,) and is a better built camera than the D600.

Kent in SD

Sep 09, 2013 at 08:04 AM

ffstory
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Sell D600 and buy D3 ?

Two23 wrote:
. For birding, I'd actually be using a D7100. It's 24mp are more concentrated, it will focus as fast as any other Nikon (and in lower light,) and is a better built camera than the D600.

True. But be aware that the D7100 has the buffer with 6 frames only good only for one second burst at 6fps.

The D600 has buffer for 24 RAWs (with a fast card) which will at 5.5fps actually give you even longer burst than the D700 or D3 (the orig. version without optional buffer upgrade). This is good as you can take more pictures and increase likelihood of a really good one.

Also the ISO performance on D600 is at least one stop (two stops according to dxomark) better than on D7100. In practice it means, you can use shutter time 1/1000 instead of 1/500 when shooting and still get the same quality. This could actually save you much more pictures than arguably better AF on the D7100.

Also the build quality is definitely not better on the D7100. They have exactly same solid consumer bodies. The D600 is actually a tiny bit bigger and heavier.

I would personally still use D600 over D7100. I know that many people don't like it, but the combination of feature set and the sony sensor is a sweet spot for many use cases.

Sep 09, 2013 at 09:47 AM

Willy Y.
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Sell D600 and buy D3 ?

I never had a problem with the D600 and AF on moving subjects. My complaint with it is its very small and centered cluster of af points, although centered is just fine for tracking birds. I tried a D7100 and every time my one second burst was up i just kinda had to shake my head - what would be a great sport/wildlife body is just a joke really with that burst.
The D3 sensor can produce some beautiful images, and the 8 fps would be very nice for birding - true you cant crop them as much, but just get a bigger lens - problem solved.

Sep 09, 2013 at 01:42 PM

Willy Y.
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Sell D600 and buy D3 ?

My keeper rates with the D3/D700 are absolutely obscene. Just sayin'

Sweet snowy crane shot

Sep 09, 2013 at 01:44 PM

JustinPoe
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Sell D600 and buy D3 ?

My keeper rates with the D3/D700 are absolutely obscene. Just sayin'

That snow shot is impressive.

Sep 09, 2013 at 01:58 PM

trenchmonkey
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Sell D600 and buy D3 ?

Thanks, Willy & Justin

It was a 20 degree mornin' with hoar frost, I was the only one out.
This was my biggest seller last year with many canvas wraps ordered. NM folks love their SC's

clarification: D3 9fps/D700 gripped 8 fps. I'll usually go with a short burst of 2 or 3 to get THE shot.

Sep 09, 2013 at 02:25 PM

ffstory
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Sell D600 and buy D3 ?

trenchmonkey wrote:
This was my biggest seller last year with many canvas wraps ordered.
For a very good reason. It is really a fantastic capture. Congratulations!

Sep 09, 2013 at 02:30 PM

mmarconi
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Sell D600 and buy D3 ?

My keeper rates with the D3/D700 are absolutely obscene. Just sayin'

That pic of cranes in the fog/snow, incredible shot Will.

Sep 09, 2013 at 03:57 PM

Frogfish
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Sell D600 and buy D3 ?

The D7100, whilst a fine camera in it's own right, is not the one for me as a backup to the D800E. For a start I've lost the benefit of all my WA lenses (I've shot APS-C before with the K5) and then there is the horrendous 1 second burst buffer, which will not work for birding I'm afraid, even though I'm not a spray 'n' pray shooter there are times when you need that 3-4 second burst. At least the D3, though still handicapped, is 9-11 fps depending on your settings, and the buffer will take 18 frames in 12 bit mode. In my style of shooting (finger on-off during a 'burst') that would mean 4-5 secs before buffer freeze sets in (I've only filled the D800E buffer 2 or 3 times in over a year). Wouldn't like to give up that VF either

I can see some of the posters, via their comments, are attuned to the way I'm debating this in my head. A camera that offers something different to that which I have now, depending on the subject, for the vast majority of subjects where little or no cropping is required then 12mp or 36mp isn't a major issue, colour depth is excellent, as is high noise control, it's only the DR where the D3 lags.

I've never had an issue with the D600, a wonderful camera, landscapers and portrait shooters especially should love it. It is a very good backup camera .. but offers nothing different, or advantageous, over the D800E. I can't afford a D3s / D4 at the moment and although I know the D3 is a better birding camera the D600 can handle itself with aplomb, the centre clustered focus points actually being beneficial and the AF is definitely not slow.

Thank you gentlemen, though I'd love a D3 these musings have persuaded me that there is no major benefit or upgrade to exchanging the D3 for the D600 and I'd be better served keeping the US$1,000 difference in my pocket until either the D3s drops to an achievable price or the mythical D400 sees the light of day.

Wonderful crane shots Will !

Sep 09, 2013 at 08:11 PM

trenchmonkey
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Sell D600 and buy D3 ?

Thanks a bunch...ff, Mike, and Kevin!

...until either the D3s drops to an achievable price or the mythical D400 sees the light of day.
I think MANY here share your thought process.

Sep 10, 2013 at 07:24 AM


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