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Downsides to adding a mirrorless body?
  
 
PhotoMaximum
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p.1 #1 · Downsides to adding a mirrorless body?


I am a self confessed gear junky.

I have yet to invest in a mirrorless body that allows for interchangeable lenses. But I am intrigued with having a smaller, fun camera that I can use with my EOS and alt lenses. Not sure I want to buy factory mirrorless lenses though, so I will also need an adaptor or two and use the extensive lens lineup I currently have (about 20 lenses).

I have a lot of EOS lenses, three nice Rokkors with EOS mounts, several Olympus Zuikos, and a few older Pentax lenses.

Concerns:
1) Does adding an alt lens adaptor to say a Sony Nex camera introduce unwanted chromatic aberrations, vignetting, flaring, etc?

2) What happens when using fast 1.2 and 1.4 lenses?

3) Do you need pro level adaptors?

4) What is the handling like when using a heavier alt lens? How easy is it to compose and focus when holding a front heavy system like this?

5) Are there any issues for left eyed shooters?

6) Anything to add?

Thanks!!!

Max



May 24, 2013 at 05:27 PM
alwang
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p.1 #2 · Downsides to adding a mirrorless body?


1) The adaptors for mirrorless cameras are almost always simple adapters that don't require optics, so there is no chance of additional CA's and flaring. It sounds like all your lenses are SLR lenses, so you should have no issue with vignetting at all, but with mounting rangefinder lenses with a shorter registration distance, there is the possibility of some vignetting and color shift in the corners.

2) Mirrorless works fine with fast lenses, and some of the focus aids that mirrorless can provide (focus peaking, magnification) are really helpful in focusing when the DoF is shallow. If you were using a FF Canon, obviously the look of these lenses will be a little different on APS-C.

3) The main difference with the more expensive adapters is QC: you may run across a cheaper adapter which is not built well, and lens isn't aligned properly with respect to the sensor plane, your IQ will suffer. Personally, I've always bought cheap $20 adapters and I've never had a problem (and if I did have a problem, i'd just return it and get another one). The only case where I think it's worth getting a more expensive adapter is to get a Leica M-mount adapter with a focusing helicoid for reducing the MFD.

4 & 5) Handling is subjective. I almost always shoot my NEX waist-level, with the LCD tilted horizontal, and with that sort of grip, using a large SLR lens feels very natural to me. I dont shoot too much eye-level.



May 24, 2013 at 05:52 PM
PhotoMaximum
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p.1 #3 · Downsides to adding a mirrorless body?


Thanks!

I found this page where this reviewer thought there was some added flare and CA issues when using EOS lenses on a Nex body. But not sure if this has been tested accurately or not?
http://www.photigy.com/canon-eos-lens-adapter-for-sony-nex-cameras-review-and-image-samples/



May 24, 2013 at 06:03 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #4 · Downsides to adding a mirrorless body?


I use Fujifilm and Alt lenses on my X-Pro 1 body. I have an EOS to X-mount adapter, but don't use EF lenses - it's just that all of my Alts are set for mounting on my EOS bodies. I'm very happy with the Fujifilm XF 18/2, 35/1.4, and 60/2.4 lenses. I'll add the XF 14/2.8 and 56/1.4 when the time is right.

I've found that the Oly 85/2, Contax Sonnar 100/3.5, SMCP-M 135/3.5, and Oly 200/4 are very nice Alt lenses on the X-Pro 1. They're of about the right size (i.e. relatively small), and they all have excellent IQ.

Edited on May 24, 2013 at 06:08 PM · View previous versions



May 24, 2013 at 06:07 PM
Jman13
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p.1 #5 · Downsides to adding a mirrorless body?


1) No major changes to optical performance that I've seen. (I own m4/3 and Fuji X, and have used NEX)

2) Um, you get fast lenses. No major changes from how they'd work on your DSLR, aside from potential crop factor stuff if you have a FF DSLR.

3) Not in my experience...I've used the cheapo Rainbow Imaging adapters for the most part with great results.

4) Not very good, frankly. Focus and composing is fine, but the weight and balance can be off. I find that using something quite large is OK, but it's the mid-range weight stuff...things that you'd use one hand to carry on the camera...that feel awkward. When I use an alt 50, or my Hexanon 57/1.2, it feels fine. When I use a longer lens, like a 200/2.8 or my big 50-300/4.5L, they feel OK...it's the things like my Rokinon 85/1.4 or FD 135/2 or the like that just feel a little unwieldy.

5) Not left-eyed, so I'll leave that to others.

6) I like the ability to use alt lenses on my mirrorless cameras, and if you have a bunch of small alts, they can work really well. But I wouldn't use a mirrorless body for EOS lenses unless I really had a specific look, and if there's a native lens that fits the same range and capabilities as one you want to adapt? I'll take that one 99% of the time. The fact is, with Micro 4/3 and Fuji X, the native lenses are better than the vast majority of what you'd adapt in the same range, and are MUCH smaller to boot. My PanaLeica 25/1.4 is better than almost any 24mm f/1.4 you could adapt. I wouldn't be surprised to see it be equal to the 24/1.4 Summilux for Leica M, frankly (not saying it is...just that it wouldn't surprise me). The Olympus 60/2.8 Macro and 75/1.8 are as good as ANY lens I've owned for any system... The Fuji 35/1.4 and 14/2.8 are brilliant lenses. The NEX lineup isn't as good as m4/3 or Fuji X for the most part, but they're getting better too.

My own personal opinion is that getting a mirrorless body is often pointless if you're going to stick huge DSLR lenses in front. It's not bad for a backup in a pinch, but the whole point (to me, anyway), is to reduce the size of the kit and still get great images, and the lenses are a HUGE portion of that. Even the Fuji X lenses, which are rather large compared to something like m4/3, are small enough that a tiny Lowepro Rezo 110 can hold my X-E1, 14/2.8, 35/1.4 and 60/2.4 Macro. My Think Tank Retrospective 5, which is a very small shoulder bag, can hold my OM-D, 7-14, 14/2.5, 25/1.4, 35-100/2.8 and 75/1.8, plus a flash, spare batteries and filters...if I had a DSLR with lenses, I might be able to fit a Rebel with two smaller lenses in it.

Edited on May 24, 2013 at 06:10 PM · View previous versions



May 24, 2013 at 06:08 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #6 · Downsides to adding a mirrorless body?


Oh right. I'm a left-eyed shooter, and it makes no difference for me; SLR, mirrorless, true rangefinder, ground glass - it's all good. Not that I can say what it's like being a righty.


May 24, 2013 at 06:10 PM
PhotoMaximum
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p.1 #7 · Downsides to adding a mirrorless body?


Thanks guys. Interesting reading...


May 24, 2013 at 07:00 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #8 · Downsides to adding a mirrorless body?


Downside is probably realizing you can do with it most of what you can do with the much larger DSLR kit, but you can't get rid of the DSLR for those few specific applications where it still excels. For me that would be sports action and AF. I would also question how much 'fun' such a camera will be when the huge DSLR lenses are adapted to it. It would probably make sense to find a few very compact lenses in the focal lengths you use the most, whether specific to that system or alt.

A great aspect is being able to cherry pick excellent lenses from across a broad spectrum of manufacturers and eras and use them all on one camera (though currently limited to a crop factor sensor unless you splurge on the Leica M).



May 24, 2013 at 07:36 PM
StephenS_CP
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p.1 #9 · Downsides to adding a mirrorless body?


I have a NEX-7. Got the EOS Speedbooster so that I could use my 17-40L as a true wide-angle lens. I've also mounted my 100 f2/8 Macro on it. My conclusions...they work great, as in rscheffler's "downside" comment above!

My primary purpose in getting the NEX-7 was not as a pocketable camera, but as one that was less intrusive in social settings which I could view as a "compromise camera" and be willing to relax my standards and just take snapshots. I still can't, and the capabiliites of the mirrorless system, especially with my existing "L" glass on it make it that much harder.

I have a speedbooster, not just a mount adapter. Yes, of course, pro-level optics are necessary if you are wanting to do critical work. I haven't used the speedbooster a lot, but I didn't see corner or aberration problems that impact me at my level of sophistication.

Handling was just fine. Didn't notice any real handling/balance difference between the EOS lenses and my walk-around Tamron 18-200. Except for the new pancake lenses, it doesn't appear to me that people using the quality lenses on the NEX cameras are really getting any significant lens size tradeoffs.

I'm a left-eyed shooter. I don't think the lens on the front of the camera changes much about my issues with the back of the camera and left-eyed shooting.

My biggest quandary is now that I can pack my 5DMII and NEX-7 bodies with my set of travel lenses, what do I do with my 50D? That's my size savings, and I've lost none of the IQ, and the NEX-7 is no more fun than the 5DMII since I can't manage to view it as a "compromise" platform.



May 24, 2013 at 08:51 PM
zylan
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p.1 #10 · Downsides to adding a mirrorless body?


question for those EOS-M owners...so the body can accept a 70-200mm F2.8L IS lens? not that i have one, but just curious since it accepts all canon lenses...wouldn't that defeat the purpose of having a smaller compact camera? that big lens will just add a significant weight anyway....or do they make separate spec lenses for the EOS-M? in other words, is there a 70-200mm version for the EOS-M? thanks.


May 24, 2013 at 09:10 PM
 

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mcbroomf
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p.1 #11 · Downsides to adding a mirrorless body?


No it needs an M-EF adapter
http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_10051_312330_-1?utm_source=google&utm_medium=Product_Search&utm_campaign=Google_Product_Feed

Here are the M lenses
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Category_Mirrorless+System+Lenses&sts=ma&ci=17912&N=4196380427&Ntt=canon+m+lenses
Mike



May 24, 2013 at 09:20 PM
zylan
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p.1 #12 · Downsides to adding a mirrorless body?


mcbroomf wrote:
No it needs an M-EF adapter
http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_10051_312330_-1?utm_source=google&utm_medium=Product_Search&utm_campaign=Google_Product_Feed

Here are the M lenses
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Category_Mirrorless+System+Lenses&sts=ma&ci=17912&N=4196380427&Ntt=canon+m+lenses
Mike


ok i see.....so only two M lenses at this time if i wasn't going to use other canon lenses with that adapter..interesting.



May 24, 2013 at 10:49 PM
sebboh
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p.1 #13 · Downsides to adding a mirrorless body?


zylan wrote:
ok i see.....so only two M lenses at this time if i wasn't going to use other canon lenses with that adapter..interesting.


yeah, canon only just entered the mirrorless world and seems a little half-hearted about it.



May 24, 2013 at 11:04 PM
mawz
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p.1 #14 · Downsides to adding a mirrorless body?


Frankly, if you are looking at an EOS M, get a used NEX-5N and a Smart Adapter for similar money, you get a better camera overall, far better sensor and pretty similar EOS compatibility, oh and a FAR better selection of native lenses (albeit not the rather nice EF-M 22/2, a lens in serious need of a nice camera to mount it on)


May 24, 2013 at 11:25 PM
bobbytan
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p.1 #15 · Downsides to adding a mirrorless body?


Both Canon and Nikon are walking on a tight rope right now. They are watching to see what Sony, Fuji, Sigma and Olympus are doing with their mirrorless systems and where the market is going before making critical decisions about their product lines and marketing strategies. The way I see it, they really have not much of a choice but to get on the mirrorless bandwagon in a more serious way, as more and more serious amateurs and pros are turning to these maturing compact systems and adopting them as their main systems camera or as a 2nd system. It is very clear that mirrorless ILC's are here to stay and they have a very promising future.

I love my MFT OM-D and don't miss my FF Canon at all since I switched over completely almost a year ago.

sebboh wrote:
yeah, canon only just entered the mirrorless world and seems a little half-hearted about it.




May 25, 2013 at 12:05 AM
Dudewithoutape
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p.1 #16 · Downsides to adding a mirrorless body?


1) Truth be told when I was using a Zeiss C/Y 135mm 2.8 on my Nex 5N, I noticed PF where I did not on my Canon 5D. I've also noticed this with some of my other older, manual alt lenses. I haven't seen anything else. I guess you do have to understand the pixel density is much higher than FF (cept maybe the D800)

2) Compared to a FF camera, you're gaining DoF, just like any APS-C camera. You'll also want slightly faster shutter speeds to combat hand movements due to the crop factor. The lens still sucks in the same amount of light though.

3) I use cheap eBay adapters and have no experience with expensive ones. All mine have been <$15 each. I do want to try a speed booster or chinese clone someday.

4) I find myself turning the camera on the larger, heavier manual lenses; otherwise I'd be fighting the lens. A wrist strap/grip helps. Be prepared to put most of the weight on your left arm. I love my gripped 5D, always feels right with any lens.

5) No idea, since I'm a right eyed shooter, but if you get an ILC without OVF, it's like a P&S or LV on your current cam, right?

6) I think the biggest drain after getting a Nex for me was looking, researching, and, finally, hunting down all the interesting lenses, since you can mount ANYTHING to these buggers. I've never bought so many lenses, some cheap, some not so cheap. I gotten to the point where I seriously need to test, and choose what I like. I've bought about 20+ lenses in the past month or two. If you are a true gear junky, buyer beware.



May 25, 2013 at 12:25 AM
PhotoMaximum
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p.1 #17 · Downsides to adding a mirrorless body?


I think the the mirrorless camera idea needs to offer more than just size reduction. I find using a 5D body with say an Olympus Zuiko 24/2.8 is a pretty compact and powerful setup. Even the big guys are offering smaller cameras, maybe as a means of weakening the mirrorless option?








May 25, 2013 at 12:32 AM
Jman13
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p.1 #18 · Downsides to adding a mirrorless body?


The bodies are small, but the lenses are still big.


May 25, 2013 at 12:38 AM
bobbytan
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p.1 #19 · Downsides to adding a mirrorless body?


So you save 1 lb by down-sizing to a Canon SL1 ... and that's going to weaken or threaten the mirrorless market? I doubt it very much... not when you can get MFT lenses that are nearly as good as the best L-series lenses, at about half the weight and cost.

PhotoMaximum wrote:
I think the the mirrorless camera idea needs to offer more than just size reduction. I find using a 5D body with say an Olympus Zuiko 24/2.8 is a pretty compact and powerful setup. Even the big guys are offering smaller cameras, maybe as a means of weakening the mirrorless option?





May 25, 2013 at 12:51 AM
PhotoMaximum
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p.1 #20 · Downsides to adding a mirrorless body?


I am sort of wrestling with this. I love the idea of a compact kit in certain situations. But I am a 6' 4" tall guy with big hands. I sort of like heavy cameras and the triangle based stability that holding a SLR to one's eye offers. I never have connected with holding a camera at arms length while staring at the back of a small LCD screen: the zen like feeling of breathing while pressing the shutter near one's face is missing somehow...


May 25, 2013 at 12:53 AM
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