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Archive 2013 · Buying used: 1ds, 5D, or 7D?
  
 
amacal1
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Buying used: 1ds, 5D, or 7D?


Hey guys, I'm about to purchase a camera and I've boiled it down to these models. I've previously owned a 400d (XTi) for quite a long time. Having grown with that camera, I eventually became frustrated with the IQ (limited ISO) and the lack of more advanced features (metering and focus). I think my priorities lie with IQ, particularly low light. From what I gather, the full frame sensors have always reigned supreme in this respect. Furthermore, from using a film camera for a little while, I came to appreciate the perspective from the full frame (still not sure if there was really any difference, but it just seemed "better").

Despite that, I think the choice is clear. While it isn't full frame, the 7D seems to provide superior high ISO performance, probably better metering, and vastly superior AF. And, while not a priority, I think the video features would be nice to have.

Am I making the right choice, or is my logic flawed or missing a critical piece of the equation?



May 07, 2013 at 03:14 PM
nburwell
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Buying used: 1ds, 5D, or 7D?


While the 7D could be considered the clear cut winner because it has all the latest and greatest bells and whistles, it isn't always the case. What type(s) of subjects do you photograph? Even though some may call them "ancient", the 5D and 1Ds still hold their own and there are photog's who still shoot with them.

Now if you're looking for a camera to strictly use to shoot sports and action, then yes, the 7D would be the clear winner. But if you do a lot of still life, low ISO type shoots, then the 1Ds and/or 5D are both very good options to consider.

-Nick



May 07, 2013 at 03:32 PM
amacal1
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Buying used: 1ds, 5D, or 7D?


No, I don't do sports, but that's not to say that I won't occasionally show up at a little cousin's football game every now and again. Or find myself trying to photo rambunctious kids in the yard.

I shudder to use the term, but most of my shooting is of the "family PJ" variety. So, I want to maintain flexibility. What that means to me is that having the ability to crank up the ISO mostly equates to flexibility. Keep in mind, however, that "high ISO" can be relative.

On the 400D, ISO 400 was about as high as you could get and have what I would consider decent prints. ISO 800 could get the shot , but dynamic range was atrocious and noise was just too I attractive. I'd be fairly happy if I could just get to ISO 1600 and still have relatively clean shots.



May 07, 2013 at 03:39 PM
amacal1
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Buying used: 1ds, 5D, or 7D?


Also, I appreciate that the high quality cameras can deliver well beyond their years. That's why I'm considering them in the first place. But I realize that almost every part of those old cameras has been improved (including the sensors). So, I really wanted to find out if one of those cameras shines or stands out. In fact, I just finished reading a thread about how many people prefer IQ of the 1ds mk II over the 5D mk II. I just don't think I can justify the cost of the 1ds mk II. (I can get a GREAT deal on the 7D, in case anyone is scratching their head on that last statement)


May 07, 2013 at 03:45 PM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Buying used: 1ds, 5D, or 7D?


Given this choice, I would buy a brand new T4i. Great technology and IQ for the price. Otherwise, I'd go with a used 5D2 for best IQ and features at the most reasonable price.


May 07, 2013 at 03:51 PM
matthew.lumpp
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Buying used: 1ds, 5D, or 7D?


Im in the same boat as Gunzorro. I have a t2i and have used/owned many 60d's, 7d's, 5d2's. The 5d2 was my favorite due to image quality, hands down. Of course the AF struggles sometimes, but when you get the shot (I did most of the time) with the right glass, its magic. Regardless how many people say the 7d's noise performace is similar to the 5d2's, its not. Images out of 7ds that I have used are not as sharp and they have more noise. I had a 5dc but didnt really use it, unfortunately. So I cannot comment on how well that will perform. I sold all my expensive gear for the most part because I got out of doing "professional" stuff. Of course I miss what the 5d and 35L/85L combo did for me, but for personal use/travel the t2i at under $300 refurbed with Canon Loyalty discount, the image/video quality at its price point works for me.


May 07, 2013 at 05:25 PM
amacal1
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Buying used: 1ds, 5D, or 7D?


Matthew: Not considering price, which camera did you prefer, the 7D or the T2i?


May 07, 2013 at 05:42 PM
cdecoro
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Buying used: 1ds, 5D, or 7D?


I've owned and used (for a short period) the 1Ds and (extensively) the 5D (I assume you mean the mark I of both?); I've never used the 7D, so my comments are less applicable to that. But given the choice between the former two, I would not hesitate to recommend emphatically the 5D.

The 1Ds has usability issues resulting from it being an older camera. For example, you'll find that the time between capture and images appearing on the LCD, especially with bursts, is significant. We're talking 20+ seconds significant. You shoot a couple of shots, and then wait. Moreover, the LCD is smaller and of lower quality, so it's a lot harder to get a good sense of your images. The menus are more cumbersome to navigate (at least, in my subjective opinion).

Also, the max iso on the 1Ds is 1250, as opposed to 1600 on the 5D. (I think that both of them advertise an "H" iso, but that's just software). The resolution is lower, as well.

The 1Ds does have a couple of advantages: the shutter blackout is noticeably shorter (though the 5D's isn't bad), the AF is much more flexible and configurable, the viewfinder protrudes farther, and if I recall is closer to 100% coverage. Built-in grip may or may not be an advantage from your point of view, but it does feel sturdier than the 5D with attached grip.

I bought it cheap after already having the 5D for a while, and found that it didn't provide me much benefit, and ended up selling it. I realize that these criticisms sound vague (it's been a while!) but I think that if you were to try it out for a bit, you'd see what I mean.

If you do action shooting, you might want to consider the 7D. The AF system on the 5D is very lackluster, as the points other than the center don't track well. I believe (haven't checked) that the 7D offers microfocus adjustment, whereas the 5D sadly does not (perhaps it would have helped with the many backfocused shots from my 50mm f1.8 II). And the 5D's burst rate is not great.

But if you're interested in low ISO performance, 5D all the way. Performance is significantly better on the 5D than on the 7D (look at the ISO charts in the reviews on the-digital-picture.com). The 5D outperforms essentially any Canon crop released to date.

In short, I was extremely happy with my 5D. I recently sold it to trade up to the 6D, but it was and remains an excellent camera.



May 07, 2013 at 06:40 PM
amacal1
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Buying used: 1ds, 5D, or 7D?


Yes, I'm talking about the 5D classic.

I will certainly check out the ISO charts. That should prove helpful. Thank you.



May 07, 2013 at 06:49 PM
dbehrens
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Buying used: 1ds, 5D, or 7D?


I prefer the IQ of my 1DsMk2 over my 5D Mk2. It's a great camera for everything but fast action that needs high frame rate and buffer capacity. The only reason why I normally grab my 5D Mk2 (for non-wildlife shoots) is that I mainly shoot with manual focus lens and live-view really is a big asset. I even think my 5D shoots better than my 5D Mk2 in natural light. It does has a weak autofocus system but for natural light shooting of stationary subjects this camera rocks.

I normally do not shoot high ISO but I do have nice shots at 3200 for the 1Ds2 and 1600 for the 5D. Both clean up nicely with noise reduction software.

I've owned three 1D series cameras and only my 1D Mk4 was bought new. My 1D Mk2 and 1DsMk2 were used - all that to say unless its an abused camera buying a 1D body used is low risk.




May 07, 2013 at 07:06 PM
 

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StillFingerz
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Buying used: 1ds, 5D, or 7D?


Just a few points to think on...

The T2i has the same if not slightly better higher ISO performance then the 7D, both have the same 18mp sensor. For general shooting, portraits, family events, etc. the T2i is a great low cost body; I'd seriously look at the latest Rebels if at all possible as some have newer features; better LCD's, etc.. Remember also, the 7D is a full year older then the T2i, the 7D came out in 09, the T2i 2010.

Why jump to a 7D...
- Simply put the viewfinder is the best seen to date for the xxD semi-pro bodies. Rebel bodies use a penta-mirror that is smaller, less clear and bright. The xxD bodies; 10D to 60D, all use a penta prism, the 5D series and 1D series use prisms as well. The viewfinder of these camera's is much bigger, brighter and makes focusing hugely easier. The 7D not only has a great prism, it has a 100% view, so you see everything via viewfinder or live view.
- It has a better/faster AF system, bigger/tougher body, and lots of extras like 8fps for sports/action/wildlife type shooting. Also it has the QCD and joystick, both make changing options, AF points super easy...

For video any of the newer Rebels are a better buy IMHO then the 7D as they have an articulated LCD. To date the only xxD body with an articulated LCD is the 60D and it would be my choice over the Rebel series just for the bigger body and penta-prism/viewfinder. In fact, if you don't need the bigger/faster 7D, the 6D would be my pick hands-down.

Just my 2 cents...good luck with your choice. As for going FF, remember they only work with EF glass, ef-s glass is made for the small crop sensor bodies and ARE NOT designed to work on FF bodies...

Jerry



May 07, 2013 at 07:12 PM
amacal1
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Buying used: 1ds, 5D, or 7D?


I didn't mention it at first, but it's entirely possible that I liked the 100% pentaprism viewfinder on my film camera and attributed some of it to the "full frame view". Also, I have always hated- nay, LOATHED - switching AF points on my rebel. I have been looking forward to a better way to do that. Faster, more accurate AF is also something I've yearned for, but it probably wouldn't take much to beat the AF system on the XTi. I just read the-digital-pictures review on the 7D and they heaped praise on its AE system.

I believe I'd like to avoid the xxxD series. As long as the T2i or T3i use the same sensor, then I think I'd do just as well with the 7D. Tiny differences in IQ from processing won't bug me, but the huge differences in functionality and durability in the 7D are appealing.

From what I've gathered, I should avoid the 1ds due mostly to its incredible age and the useability improvements that have occured since its time.

So it seems that I'm now deciding between the 5D classic and the 7D. Does anyone have any direct comparisons between those two?



It's a bit off subject, but eye controlled focusing is a thing that should also certainly be revived. I don't care if it only works on a couple of points out of the lot, it's amazing when it does!



May 07, 2013 at 07:34 PM
amacal1
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Buying used: 1ds, 5D, or 7D?


Better yet, had anyone moved on to one of these cameras from an XTi (or similar) and can tell me if I'm going to see the kind of improvements I'm expecting? (Noise, AF, AE, ergonomics, etc.)


May 07, 2013 at 07:39 PM
Shutterbug2006
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Buying used: 1ds, 5D, or 7D?


Given the choices, 1Ds2, 7d, or 5D - I'd choose a 1Ds2 hands down.




May 07, 2013 at 07:45 PM
MaunaKea7007
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Buying used: 1ds, 5D, or 7D?


Going through a similar question from the point of view of a working pro: 5DMk3 vs. 1DsMk3?

I have one of each now, and I feel that just two bodies is too thin when important events might schedule in while one needs maintenance. There's always the risk of accidents or unplanned failures. Anyway: 2012 or 2007 camera? I love my 1Ds3, recently purchased -- this February -- because Imaging Resources' comparison still life files shows the older sensor is just BETTER at ISO 100, maybe 200, too. However, sequence shooting and the buffer are slower. I don't get asked to do sports. The 5D3 auto focus (on my copy) isn't as good as the great notices that preceded the camera's release. A friend's 5D3 focus is snappier. Should I get another 5D3 hoping to receive the full promise of the new body design?

I will be adding weddings to what I pitch so am looking ahead to that kind of event. 1Ds has a somewhat quieter shutter setting, like the 5D3, so that feature is checked off for sensitive events. High ISO needs that are part of the event can be handled by having a 5D3 body at the ready.

It's the solidity and strength of the body that is its appeal. The shutter just sounds GOOD. The 5D3 now feels like corner cutting. Not easy to quantify. I had a 5D2 before, the 5D3 an improvement, but now I can get a 1DsMk3 and a refurb 5D3 at about the same $$.

For following family around? ("PJ" photography?) Seems like a stretch, but it will make you feel like a photographer, which has implications for where you are going in this journey. Full-frame with good files is a path to quality that might be for your personal appreciation... but a pathway you'll enjoy on this journey.

Best wishes for success in your shooting.

.

Edited on May 07, 2013 at 09:26 PM · View previous versions



May 07, 2013 at 07:54 PM
StillFingerz
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Buying used: 1ds, 5D, or 7D?


ECF died with the EOS-3 film bodies and I agree, such a shame Canon didn't keep it going, refine it, make it better. I still have two EOS-3s and doubt I'll part with them.

With regards to the 5D vs 7D choice, for IQ at ISOs at or below 800 the 5D IMO is simply magic, it's huge pixels just produce a smoothness in tonality that APS-C sensors do not, but the 5D has no liveview, no sensor based auto dust removal and it's AF is old and not anything like the 7D's. With a 5D you are pretty much limited to using the center point for AF, and must use the recompose method or manual focus. The 5D's AF isn't much if any better then your current Rebel. It's pluses are it's beautiful low ISO IQ and that big bright viewfinder just like film cameras have...

There are several FMers that shoot exclusively with the 5D and 7D. For the 5D check out 15Bit/Jool's images, for the 7D take a look at Imagemaster/Tony's images, both of these guys/shooters create some great imagery...I'd send a message to each and get their advice/comments....suggestions.

Jerry

Edited on May 07, 2013 at 09:02 PM · View previous versions



May 07, 2013 at 08:05 PM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Buying used: 1ds, 5D, or 7D?


Shutterbug2006 wrote:
Given the choices, 1Ds2, 7d, or 5D - I'd choose a 1Ds2 hands down.



If the choices were limited to these three, I agree with the 1Ds2.

But as I said, I'd choose a used 5D2 over the 1Ds2.

I would not go back to a 5D classic (sold that too, a few months ago), and 7D was never in consideration for me.



May 07, 2013 at 08:15 PM
amacal1
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Buying used: 1ds, 5D, or 7D?


Just to clear up: it's between 1ds-1, 5D1, and 7D.

Also, great advice. I'm feeling much better about this no matter which I choose. Thanks.



May 07, 2013 at 08:19 PM
matthew.lumpp
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Buying used: 1ds, 5D, or 7D?


amacal1 wrote:
Matthew: Not considering price, which camera did you prefer, the 7D or the T2i?


I would choose whichever copy focuses more accurately, thats what matters more to me than the other specs considering they use the same sensor. And it really comes down to what you need the tool to do and what your preferences are.

If I were doing paid gigs I would at least go for the 7d and hope I got one without focusing problems. If not, send it back and have it re calibrated. Ive used a couple that didn't focus as precisely as my t2i with the same lenses. That was frustrating. There are tolerances within which any manufacturer says a product is "within specs." Sometimes this variance doesn't blend well between two products that may be on the same side of the tolerance line. That would put their combined tolerance values outside of the "within spec" range. I've even had 5d2's where I loved one and hated the other because the focus on one was spot on and just not right on the other (even after sending it back for Canon to "fix" like 3 times.

For my personal hobby/unpaid stuff, I use the t2i for both video and stills. I like the smaller size body for travel, video quality is great, and image quality is great. Sure there is stuff that it doesn't do that I wish it could or stuff I wish it could do differently, but then it wouldn't be a t2i. It would be a 5d3 and also cost a lot more.

If I were to buy another body and sell this one, it would probably be a 60d for its features/price point. I like the swivel screen. But again, I would make sure its one that focuses accurately at 1.4. There's not room for focus problems using wide apertures.



May 07, 2013 at 08:26 PM
15Bit
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Buying used: 1ds, 5D, or 7D?


I moved from a 350D to a 5D a couple of years ago and it was in every way a significant upgrade. The big things for me personally are the much bigger viewfinder, great image quality and the big improvement in high ISO capability. This comparison might be of help with respect to the 5D/7D comparison:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/comparisons/2010-08-03-5d2-7d-5d-d300/



May 07, 2013 at 08:35 PM
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