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Archive 2013 · Ultimate Zeiss lens for Nikon?
  
 
Fredbare
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p.4 #1 · Ultimate Zeiss lens for Nikon?


Thanks for your input Simon. Appreciated.

Changing tack somewhat I've read that some of the Zeiss lenses are more 'cinematic' than others.
Have a feeling these are the 28 and 85mm from what I've read?
I enjoy this look and might buy a suitable lens for experimentation.
However, the one variable that I've yet to become acquainted with is how much PP 'adds' to the overall 'Zeiss look'?
Comments?



Mar 23, 2013 at 05:20 PM
Makten
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p.4 #2 · Ultimate Zeiss lens for Nikon?


Fredbare wrote:
However, the one variable that I've yet to become acquainted with is how much PP 'adds' to the overall 'Zeiss look'?
Comments?


I think much of the Zeiss look comes from the fact that you DON'T have to process the files to get good colors and sharpness. Thus you can get really nice IQ without a "processed" look, which makes things look more real.



Mar 23, 2013 at 07:04 PM
philip_pj
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p.4 #3 · Ultimate Zeiss lens for Nikon?


Fred, you might get a good picture of the Zeiss phenomenon here:

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2013/03/day-1-sony-and-zeiss-up-in-a-tree.html

Mike is a former editor of a photographic magazine, has maybe 35+ years in the business.

At the risk of upsetting some folks, I invite you to look through:

1. the images on this page here:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/860134/832

and this one also:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/860134/832

These are quintessentially Zeiss images.

2. Now look through some of the images on this page here:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1156565/8 (Nikon image thread)

and here:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1197179 (Canon image thread)

Now if you see no difference in these two groups of images, congratulations, as you can spare yourself further concern considering Zeiss as an option.

There is no slur involved here, a lot of people never see the difference and openly mock Zeiss users for their views. Good for them!

I have to disagree with Mike Johnston here, as I believe the Zeiss look shows through very clearly in most web images, that are of subject matter that gives the lens maker the opportunity to show its class. Which one to buy? Do your research....;-)



Mar 23, 2013 at 10:17 PM
Fredbare
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p.4 #4 · Ultimate Zeiss lens for Nikon?


Makten, Philip, Thanks for your replies.
As I had mentioned earlier I do see a difference with my 35 F2 in some circumstances, mostly at closer distances.
What I see in image IQ is very satisfying for my personal tastes - hence wanting to expand my arsenal.

Shooting MF is no problem because I started that way. However, this was with cameras outfitted with microprism or split screen.
I would guess that the longer the F/L with 'autofocus cameras' the more difficult - although again I have seen some reports that contradict this.
Yes Philip, I've been through many pages that show that there are differences between lenses from different marques.
For the 5th time now I'm on my way through http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/860134 - currently page 101 -
to determine my next purchase.
Unsurprisingly the 21 and 100 are on the top of my list and I would have purchased one or the other in the last week but:
A. Both are out of stock at the Zeiss online shop.
B. I'm interested in the new 135mm F2 so maybe the 100 would be redundant.
The 50MP is of interest but the Nikon 60mm Micro is already in my bag and they are supposed to be 'similar'.
However, I don't really like the rendering of the 60 Micro so I might just plump for the 50 MP as well to compare and keep the 60 for when I need 1:1.
Not being in a position to 'rent and try' makes life a little awkward.
Anyway, not after a plethora of lenses - just some good ones that will suit my taste IRO image IQ as self perceived.



Mar 24, 2013 at 02:19 PM
carstenw
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p.4 #5 · Ultimate Zeiss lens for Nikon?


The 60 Micro and 50MP are not similar, really, but the 60 Micro is a fine macro lens which delivers effortlessly. It doesn't have Zeiss rendering though. As far as Zeiss 50s go, I prefer the Planars to the Makro-Planar, which has a less pleasing boke and some corner trouble wide open.


Mar 24, 2013 at 02:58 PM
hiepphotog
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p.4 #6 · Ultimate Zeiss lens for Nikon?


Fredbare wrote:
Shooting MF is no problem because I started that way. However, this was with cameras outfitted with microprism or split screen.
I would guess that the longer the F/L with 'autofocus cameras' the more difficult - although again I have seen some reports that contradict this...


It would be the other way around: the wider the FL, the more ambiguous in the zone of focus is due to a thicker DOF. Especially with a well corrected lens like the 135 APO, you will definitely see the zone of focus would pop into view nicely.

I also wonder if you have to buy these lenses right now. Zeiss will come out with a higher performance lens line-up. And if you just want a handful of them, so you don't have to wonder whether to take that 24 or that 35 out for a walk, then it would be better to wait for a little longer. I believe the rendition of the 135 APO would be very much similar to this new line-up than it's to the current Zeiss. If I want to own only a few, I would certainly buy the best I can afford. But the best in this case would be what is best to you: IQ, character, weight/size, etc. So whatever you like in the current 35/2 right now might not be there in the new Zeiss. Such lost in transition can be seen readily in the 35/1.4, and in a lesser extent the 21/2.8 and 28/2.




Mar 24, 2013 at 03:34 PM
Fredbare
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p.4 #7 · Ultimate Zeiss lens for Nikon?


Carsten - I thought this could be the case too.
Hiepphotog - in todays evolving technology it's always a worry that the newest bit of gear will always arrive as soon as your credit card registers your last purchase. It's one of the unfathomable laws of nature ;-)
Actually I have a theory that credit card transactions break Einstein's general theory of relativity in that they're debited from your account before the card is actually swiped.
But, yes, one never knows what one is going to get served. An improved version IRO perceived IQ or a more sterile offering.
Lenses might measure technically well but do they have the impact (for want of a better word) than the older design?
There lies the rub.



Mar 24, 2013 at 04:50 PM
hiepphotog
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p.4 #8 · Ultimate Zeiss lens for Nikon?


So it's pretty safe to say that the 135 APO would determine that. Lens development is a relatively slow process. Only this year is worth the wait. 3-4 years ago, one can simply say that the 21, 35/2, and 100/2 are pretty much the best 3 you should get in the Zeiss line-up. Now, you can add the 15 in the mix as well as the 35/1.4 and 25/2. Having shot with many of these Zeiss lenses and others, I would rather stick with only a handful of truly top lenses.


Mar 24, 2013 at 08:58 PM
wiseguy010
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p.4 #9 · Ultimate Zeiss lens for Nikon?


philip_pj wrote:
Fred, you might get a good picture of the Zeiss phenomenon here:

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2013/03/day-1-sony-and-zeiss-up-in-a-tree.html

Mike is a former editor of a photographic magazine, has maybe 35+ years in the business.

At the risk of upsetting some folks, I invite you to look through:

1. the images on this page here:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/860134/832

and this one also:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/860134/832

These are quintessentially Zeiss images.



Quite funny to see that most pictures on the pages you refer to are made by the Zeiss 35/2. Also quite some people in this thread are referring to this lens. And this while I had the impression that its reputation was somehow gone after the introduction of the Zeiss 35/1.4. Now it seems back again (or was it just never away?).





Mar 24, 2013 at 11:31 PM
Fredbare
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p.4 #10 · Ultimate Zeiss lens for Nikon?


hiepphotog wrote:
So it's pretty safe to say that the 135 APO would determine that. Lens development is a relatively slow process. Only this year is worth the wait. 3-4 years ago, one can simply say that the 21, 35/2, and 100/2 are pretty much the best 3 you should get in the Zeiss line-up. Now, you can add the 15 in the mix as well as the 35/1.4 and 25/2. Having shot with many of these Zeiss lenses and others, I would rather stick with only a handful of truly top lenses.


Thanks for the info.

Do you have any timeline and order of replacement for the older lenses?
As you mention, a handful of top lenses would meet the requirements which, as it stands, according to my preference it would be the trinity of 21/35/100.



Mar 25, 2013 at 03:10 AM
 

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hiepphotog
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p.4 #11 · Ultimate Zeiss lens for Nikon?


FYI, those new lenses will cost at least $4500/3000 Euros each with size and weight to match. The Distagon 55/1.4 is a definite. Rumor has it that they would release a 28/1.4 and a 85/1.4 around the same time frame as well. Last time I checked, they're scheduled to be released this Fall. So I guess you can expect them early next year to be widely available.

You can check out these links to see the performance of the Distagon 55/1.4 at WO:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mEj6CqZWMk

http://vishalsabharwal.com/2013/01/08/zeiss-55-distagon/



Mar 25, 2013 at 04:07 AM
Fredbare
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p.4 #12 · Ultimate Zeiss lens for Nikon?


Thanks again Hiepphotog,

Those prices are outside my price/performance ratio.
Will probably go with the 21/35 F2/50MP/135 route. Should give adequate coverage in the short/medium term.
An update to the 85mm might be a good investment (in image IQ) if the price isn't too excessive.



Mar 25, 2013 at 01:49 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.4 #13 · Ultimate Zeiss lens for Nikon?


philip_pj wrote:
Jae who until recently posted here as 'FlyPenFly', did his own and found it OK, so it is a confidence and knowledge issue I believe, The instructions are off-putting to me at least. I'll do the others though.



Hah, hi.

Yes, if you're talking about the 35-70 conversion, it is not so bad. Just takes patience, care, and make sure you're using a blanket or large towel because the bearing will go flying.



Apr 05, 2013 at 04:45 PM
sebboh
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p.4 #14 · Ultimate Zeiss lens for Nikon?


wiseguy010 wrote:
Quite funny to see that most pictures on the pages you refer to are made by the Zeiss 35/2. Also quite some people in this thread are referring to this lens. And this while I had the impression that its reputation was somehow gone after the introduction of the Zeiss 35/1.4. Now it seems back again (or was it just never away?).




it was never gone. you are just super sensitive to anybody suggesting your favorite lens isn't perfect or that other lenses might be slightly better in certain ways.



Apr 05, 2013 at 05:27 PM
wiseguy010
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p.4 #15 · Ultimate Zeiss lens for Nikon?


sebboh wrote:
it was never gone. you are just super sensitive to anybody suggesting your favorite lens isn't perfect or that other lenses might be slightly better in certain ways.


Oh no, that is not true at all. At the moment my favourite lens is the Zeiss 15/2.8. That's the lens I am using mostly these days. When spring arrives I will certainly use my Zeiss macro's more often, so then these are my favourite lenses.

I am just a little allergic to people who always scream around that the latest lens they acquired is the best one and all previous lenses can be thrown in the trashcan. This happened twice with the Zeiss 35/2 (first after Zeiss 35/1.4 and now with Sigma 35/1.4). So I am glad that the Zeiss 35/2 is highly rewarded in this thread. I think this lens certainly earned it as it truly is a great lens.



Apr 06, 2013 at 04:18 PM
Fredbare
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p.4 #16 · Ultimate Zeiss lens for Nikon?


For completion, I purchased the 21mm F2.8 which should arrive UPS tomorrow.
I doubt I could go wrong with this lens (the photo-gods willing)
Next is either the 100 or 135. Will wait to see what the press have to say but I guess the 135 (also with this F/L being one of my own preferences) will win the day.
Thanks everyone for your input. It's been informative and greatly appreciated!



Apr 07, 2013 at 04:05 PM
carstenw
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p.4 #17 · Ultimate Zeiss lens for Nikon?


Congratulations! Excellent choice too, classic lens.


Apr 07, 2013 at 04:22 PM
hiepphotog
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p.4 #18 · Ultimate Zeiss lens for Nikon?


Definitely a fine choice. And for an all-rounder, the 135 is much better than the 100, especially if it's your preferred focal.


Apr 07, 2013 at 04:37 PM
timballic
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p.4 #19 · Ultimate Zeiss lens for Nikon?


I think you made a great choice. For a lot more info on Zeiss lenses it would probably be worth your while subscribing to Diglloyd's very rigorous testing of the Zeiss lenses.
I think it will both, help confirm your first choice of the 21 and the 135, and give you a lot further insight on all the others in-between.
http://diglloyd.com/index-zf.html



Apr 08, 2013 at 09:44 AM
Fredbare
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p.4 #20 · Ultimate Zeiss lens for Nikon?


Thanks everyone for their help. It's been a bit of a circuitous road.
So far, on the very positive side, the colours (via D600) look exactly the same as when originally viewed.
Neutral is that using this UWA is somewhat less forgiving on composition (e.g. converging diagonals).
Negative, even with *only* 24 MP I need to improve my hand-holding technique (or use a tripod) - not as forgiving as I'd hoped at this F/L (i.e. being lazy doesn't cut it :-) )
Big negative is I want more Zeiss glass now



Apr 12, 2013 at 02:16 PM
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