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Archive 2013 · Phone call from father of bride about final payment
  
 
wishdiver
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Phone call from father of bride about final payment


TTLKurtis wrote:
P.S. I recently had a father like this who wanted to pay final balance after images were delivered. I asked him what the underlying concerns were, offered referrals and even ended up conceding that he could pay after the wedding but before receiving images. He said it was a cultural thing and not negotiable. Tough shit dad, your daughter just lost the photographer she wanted.



I have walked away from a couple because of this and boy did the Bride and MOB get upset at the FOG. When they came back begging for me to shoot their wedding saying everything would be fine I politely declined and stated that we had already booked another couple.

Best decision we have made. From what I hear from the photographer they did hire the FOG was a complete nightmare and kept asking for more and more.

Bottom line if it feels bad from the start it will not get any better.



Mar 16, 2013 at 03:40 AM
Ian Ivey
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Phone call from father of bride about final payment


You handled it well enough by looping your client in on the problem. The result speaks for itself.

It's worth establishing something for the record, since so many people urged you to make demands of the bride. In most states, the father's threat is not legally material to the contract because he is not a party to the contract. Therefore, his threat alone does not justify unilateral action on your part, including making unilateral demands of the bride. If your customary form of payment for the final payment includes credit cards, and the bride insisted on paying with her own credit card (and told you her dad has no say in the matter), then refusing her credit card payment would put you in the position of breaching the contract.

By contrast, if she reiterated the charge-back threat, or told you she planned to pay with her father's card (or some other form of payment her father controlled), then you'd have a party to the contract notifying you of intent to breach, in which case a unilateral demand on your part for a more secure payment form might be warranted.

It's dangerous to go off half-cocked when third parties attempt to inter-meddle with the contractual relationship.

I especially appreciate Todd's advice, here, because the father had no authority to interfere with the existing agreement. There might have been an opportunity to make a friend out of the father by calmly engaging him, and helping him trust you. The father likely thinks of you now as an adversary. I think the bride's comment -- that she has retained control over only the photography -- is fascinating. It may be that the father is incorrigible, but it's more likely he's just difficult, and could have been won over. "Difficult" is just a challenge. Whether you choose to rise to it or not depends on skill and your assessment of the upside of doing so.



Mar 16, 2013 at 04:41 AM
TTLKurtis
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Phone call from father of bride about final payment


Ian the problem is that the payments were being made with her father's AMEX to that point so it isn't quite a third party as you point out and is directly relevant.


Mar 16, 2013 at 04:45 AM
sivrajbm
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Phone call from father of bride about final payment


TTLKurtis wrote:
I think I would notify the bride that no images will be delivered until after the chargeback period has expired due to her fathers threats unless they pay the balance in cash. Homie don't play dat. My contract specifies balance is due 30 days before the event, and I would tell him the booking is cancelled 29 days before the event if payment is not received in cash as per the payment scheduled layer out in the contract. I have no tolerance for threats like that.



This exactly...+1



Mar 16, 2013 at 04:46 AM
Ian Ivey
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Phone call from father of bride about final payment


TTLKurtis wrote:
Ian the problem is that the payments were being made with her father's AMEX to that point so it isn't quite a third party as you point out and is directly relevant.


No, it was the bride's card, Kurtis.

Graceology wrote:
The deposit was paid by the brides AMEX.



Mar 16, 2013 at 04:47 AM
TTLKurtis
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Phone call from father of bride about final payment


Hm perhaps I was wrong then but the context of the conversation implied dad has been paying. Maybe he's just paying the bride's AMEX bill though.


Mar 16, 2013 at 05:06 AM
Ian Ivey
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Phone call from father of bride about final payment


TTLKurtis wrote:
Hm perhaps I was wrong then but the context of the conversation implied dad has been paying. Maybe he's just paying the bride's AMEX bill though.


The father evidently told the OP that it was his money paying for the entire wedding. That comment might be what you're thinking of.

But that's really the point I'm making. Third parties can say all kinds of nonsense, and even make claims about their ability to control the actual parties to the contract. But if you take unilateral action to change the terms of your contract without evidence that your actual client intends to breach, you won't get anywhere with a judge by telling him a non-signatory party said things that worried you.

It's a different matter if the bride who signed your agreement confirms the threats, either by saying she agrees, or by telling you her dad controls the form of payment. But even if dad claims he controls the payment, you can't just go changing the terms on that basis alone.



Mar 16, 2013 at 05:23 AM
D. Diggler
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Phone call from father of bride about final payment


Ian Ivey wrote:
No, it was the bride's card, Kurtis.

Graceology wrote:


"After going back and forth he tells me that he will pay the final balance on a credit card"



Mar 16, 2013 at 05:23 AM
Ian Ivey
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Phone call from father of bride about final payment


D. Diggler wrote:
"After going back and forth he tells me that he will pay the final balance on a credit card"


Doesn't matter, D, unless the bride confirms it. Again, the third party (dad) can say whatever he likes. The OP doesn't have to accept payment from HIM -- that's not a modification to the contract. But if the OP goes back and makes demands of the bride without evidence that the bride intends to follow through on dad's plan, then it's the OP who has changed the contract unilaterally.



Mar 16, 2013 at 05:28 AM
TTLKurtis
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Phone call from father of bride about final payment


While we are on the subject, are you making the assumption that there is any mention in the contract of acceptable forms of payment?


Mar 16, 2013 at 05:33 AM
 

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JTMeuret
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Phone call from father of bride about final payment


Sounds like he can't afford it, so he's already "pre-planned" in his head that he's not going to pay you. I would request cash payment IN FULL a week from NOW...way in advance. Otherwise, cancel this. They are definitely freaked out about paying. Too wild. Sounds like she has no money.


Mar 16, 2013 at 06:00 AM
Ian Ivey
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Phone call from father of bride about final payment


TTLKurtis wrote:
While we are on the subject, are you making the assumption that there is any mention in the contract of acceptable forms of payment?


No, though if it does, then those are the terms that would bind the OP absent an indication from the signing party of an intent to breach (or an actual breach).

If the agreement does not discuss terms, then the court would typically look at what you've already accepted and at your common practice. Factors that could be relevant include: 1) whether you've set expectations in any communication outside the contract, 2) whether you've already accepted a credit card from the client; 3) whether you usually accept credit cards generally, 4) whether you usually request or require a different payment form for the final payment, and 5) the degree to which your new requirement places an additional or unusual burden on the client (i.e., does it require additional fees or a trip in person to a bank?).



Mar 16, 2013 at 06:01 AM
Ian Ivey
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Phone call from father of bride about final payment


JTMeuret wrote:
Sounds like he can't afford it, so he's already "pre-planned" in his head that he's not going to pay you. I would request cash payment IN FULL a week from NOW...way in advance. Otherwise, cancel this. They are definitely freaked out about paying. Too wild. Sounds like she has no money.


I think this nicely summarizes the worst advice contained in this thread.



Mar 16, 2013 at 06:10 AM
Xandervt
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Phone call from father of bride about final payment


When is the Wedding? Because youre concentration has to regenerated to the bride and the groom and not the negative wishes/words of dad. The first thing I would do whatever is explaing the dad I have the contract with his doughter and her viance (alo if he pais). And if a signed contracted is not negotiated afterwards. He has nothing to do with all of his wishes.

I wish you all the best at staying Professional because of this emotional disoppointment because of the brides Father. Continue to make such a beautifull work as I have seen at youre homepage. Perhaps Dad has to take a look at that first!



Mar 16, 2013 at 10:08 AM
rob0225
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Phone call from father of bride about final payment


JTMeuret wrote:
Sounds like he can't afford it, so he's already "pre-planned" in his head that he's not going to pay you. I would request cash payment IN FULL a week from NOW...way in advance. Otherwise, cancel this. They are definitely freaked out about paying. Too wild. Sounds like she has no money.


I didn't get this interpretation at all.



Mar 16, 2013 at 06:59 PM
D. Diggler
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Phone call from father of bride about final payment


Xandervt wrote:
youre concentration has to regenerated to the bride and the groom and not the negative wishes/words of dad


Thanks DAD for putting the photog in an adversarial position before the wedding's even started.

Honestly, I have been in the position where a family member who was an attorney got a bit heavy handed with me before the wedding was even shot. And, unlike in the case here with the original poster, the client did NOT offer any sort of apology and just let the heavy-handed approach go. Unfortunately, them taking an adversarial stance with me made me shoot their wedding AS AN ADVERSARY. And it showed in their pictures, which came out the worse for their approach.



Mar 16, 2013 at 07:14 PM
Xandervt
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Phone call from father of bride about final payment


D. Diggler wrote:
Thanks DAD for putting the photog in an adversarial position before the wedding's even started.

Honestly, I have been in the position where a family member who was an attorney got a bit heavy handed with me before the wedding was even shot. And, unlike in the case here with the original poster, the client did NOT offer any sort of apology and just let the heavy-handed approach go. Unfortunately, them taking an adversarial stance with me made me shoot their wedding AS AN ADVERSARY. And it showed in their pictures, which came out the worse for their approach.



Perhaps my English is not so well an therefore I apoligies, but I didn't say he is in an adversary position, I said that his concentration can be ruined by such a father.

I once had a a Wedding were the brother in law treated me very negative and that ruined my concentratation at the beautifull emotions the Bride and the Groom showed. The photos were acceptable but not maximal.



Mar 16, 2013 at 07:35 PM
Graceology
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Phone call from father of bride about final payment


Hey guys, been shooting a wedding all day, sorry for the delay in response. The wedding is May 19th in Hilton Head, SC. I am not sure who is paying the AMEX bill, but I charged the bride's card for the deposit. When I spoke with the FOB he stated that he is footing the bill for the wedding so he may be paying the monthly AMEX bill or he could have added her as a user on his card, who knows. I don't think the issue is money as much as it is trust. I would venture to say this wedding is in the 40-50k budget range. The best thing for me to do is show up with a smiling face and blow them away with our professionalism and talent. I have to put this all behind me because going into this wedding with a negative approach from the FOB is not fair to the bride and groom who are essentially innocent in this entire ordeal.


Mar 17, 2013 at 05:45 AM
Xandervt
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Phone call from father of bride about final payment


Graceology wrote:
The wedding is May 19th in Hilton Head, SC. The best thing for me to do is show up with a smiling face and blow them away with our professionalism and talent. I have to put this all behind me because going into this wedding with a negative approach from the FOB is not fair to the bride and groom who are essentially innocent in this entire ordeal.



+1


And I wish you a good job! The challenge is to let them "wow" all and blow away yes!



Mar 17, 2013 at 09:01 AM
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