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Archive 2013 · The New Leica M - Is HERE!
  
 
Taylor Sherman
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · The New Leica M - Is HERE!


Yes, perhaps with a bit of an eyebrow-raise and a slight nod when you say "Leica".

"This is my new Leica."
"Which model is it?"
"It's the Leica".



Feb 27, 2013 at 09:40 PM
Mescalamba
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · The New Leica M - Is HERE!


"No anti-aliasing."

Are you guys sure about it? Cause I still havent seen moiré on any samples where I would expect it to be..



Feb 27, 2013 at 09:42 PM
markd61
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · The New Leica M - Is HERE!


While I recognize that Leica has disappointed some users by not delivering tall the features they had hoped, I think a certain number of them can and will be remedied by firmware updates.
Leica just does not have the resources of Nikon or Canon and to expect them to deliver feature sets that a large company can amortize over a million units is a little unreasonable.
They still have made remarkable progress for a company that has teetered on bankruptcy during the last 30 years.




Feb 27, 2013 at 09:45 PM
naturephoto1
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · The New Leica M - Is HERE!


markd61 wrote:
While I recognize that Leica has disappointed some users by not delivering tall the features they had hoped, I think a certain number of them can and will be remedied by firmware updates.
Leica just does not have the resources of Nikon or Canon and to expect them to deliver feature sets that a large company can amortize over a million units is a little unreasonable.
They still have made remarkable progress for a company that has teetered on bankruptcy during the last 30 years.



We will wait and see. But, Boris received confirmation from Leica itself that the issue of not having scrolling (moving) magnified view capability for the EVF was due to hardware and could not be remidied through firmware updates.

Rich



Feb 27, 2013 at 09:53 PM
DoubleNegative
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · The New Leica M - Is HERE!


, Ken/Taylor.

Rich does have valid points, not just as a committed R shooter but landscape photographer. So from that perspective, those are more than criticisms or personal annoyances, I'd say.

A real shame about not being able to select (and enlarge) a focus area. Clearly they approached the engineering problem as M shooters and had tunnel vision on it. They got what they designed... But didn't consider "the bigger picture" as it were. I guess there's more to it than just selecting a rectangular area of the video stream and enlarging that. *shrug*

As for the AA filter (or lack thereof) that's a good question actually. AFAIK, there isn't one. Though that's partially - if not entirely an assumption.



Feb 27, 2013 at 10:06 PM
telyt
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · The New Leica M - Is HERE!


naturephoto1 wrote:
Sorry to disappoint you, but it was neither a joke nor do I consider the list that I provided as ridiculous. I have been a Leica R user since 1984 (now about 29 years) with a substantial investment in 16 Leica R lenses and presently still with 3 Leica R cameras for an investment of probably well over $30,000 over the years. I am a Pro, and Leica has used my work. The points that I listed are because the camera was to have been an R "solution" and clearly it does not provide sufficient features that nature, landscape,
...Show more

The M type 240 isn't the camera to replace my R8+DMR. It's probably all the R solution some photographers need but for myself and apparently for Rich it's not. I'll wait for the next M & re-evaluate.

DoubleNegative wrote:
As for the AA filter (or lack thereof) that's a good question actually. AFAIK, there isn't one. Though that's partially - if not entirely an assumption.


Stefan Daniel said the M has no AA filter. That's better than an assumption.



Feb 27, 2013 at 10:37 PM
DoubleNegative
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · The New Leica M - Is HERE!


^ I meant an assumption on my part. I just didn't recall for sure either way but was pretty sure it didn't have one.


Feb 27, 2013 at 10:58 PM
rscheffler
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · The New Leica M - Is HERE!


Mescalamba wrote:
"No anti-aliasing."

Are you guys sure about it? Cause I still havent seen moiré on any samples where I would expect it to be..


The early 'unofficial' photos released by Dr. Rohde through the website the.me show some pretty strong aliasing in certain architectural elements.

Link

telyt wrote:
Stefan Daniel said the M has no AA filter. That's better than an assumption.


Yes, I believe in the ~30 minute interview on the floor of his office at Photokina with Thorsten Overgaard.

Link



Feb 27, 2013 at 11:01 PM
telyt
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · The New Leica M - Is HERE!


I wrote:
... I'll wait for the next M & re-evaluate.


Needless to say the M and the Leica brand are not the only cameras I'll be evaluating when the time comes to replace the DMR.



Feb 27, 2013 at 11:15 PM
Lee Saxon
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · The New Leica M - Is HERE!


naturephoto1 wrote:
4) Inability to move (scroll) the magnified area of the EVF (and I presume the LCD screen) for the purpose of focus points


I cannot believe Leica didn't laugh CMOSIS out of the room when they told them about that limitation. I'd rather have Nikon's interpolated fakeview on the D800 than one-spot-only live view. I can't believe how much Ming Thein downplayed this one in his review.

Right now the one and only selling point of this camera is that it's the only full frame mirrorless (unless you want to deal with the ergonomic hassles of shooting stills with a VG900). Once Sony gets around to putting that fabulous A99/VG900 sensor and EVF into a stills-focused mirrorless body...

markd61 wrote:
Leica just does not have the resources of Nikon or Canon and to expect them to deliver feature sets that a large company can amortize over a million units is a little unreasonable.


Not an unreasonable point. I will mention, however, that Red somehow pulls it off *shrug*



Feb 27, 2013 at 11:35 PM
 

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RustyBug
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · The New Leica M - Is HERE!


Mescalamba wrote:
"No anti-aliasing."

Are you guys sure about it? Cause I still havent seen moiré on any samples where I would expect it to be..


24MP probably helps a bit ... hmmm at influence of optics role involved in moire' for rangefinder glass vs. dslr glass.

Outa my league, but interesting to consider.



Feb 27, 2013 at 11:54 PM
naturephoto1
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · The New Leica M - Is HERE!


Lee Saxon wrote:
I cannot believe Leica didn't laugh CMOSIS out of the room when they told them about that limitation. I'd rather have Nikon's interpolated fakeview on the D800 than one-spot-only live view. I can't believe how much Ming Thein downplayed this one in his review.

Right now the one and only selling point of this camera is that it's the only full frame mirrorless (unless you want to deal with the ergonomic hassles of shooting stills with a VG900). Once Sony gets around to putting that fabulous A99/VG900 sensor and EVF into a stills-focused mirrorless body...

Not an unreasonable point. I will
...Show more

Lee,

Not haven't read the review and not knowing Ming Thein and his shooting habits, but I would guess that most M shooters shoot quickly and without a tripod. Most also will rely on the Rangefinder or zone focus for M lenses in the Wide Angle to only 90mm or 135mm focal lengths. If they did use the EVF with the enlargement, most would just focus and recompose or again rely on the one focus. Most M shooters would not think in terms or expect to use longer focal length or the camera with zooms or Macro lenses.

But, R shooters and M shooters that also shoot R cameras and lenses for the purposes of fine tuning composition such as for macro work, work with shift or T/S lenses, long lenses, wildlife, tripod work, etc. would find the scrolling adjustable magnification of great value in this type of work.

Rich



Feb 28, 2013 at 12:15 AM
michael49
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · The New Leica M - Is HERE!


Lee Saxon wrote:
....


This is the big one, makes LV almost pointless.



Feb 28, 2013 at 12:16 AM
philip_pj
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · The New Leica M - Is HERE!


I think a lot of Rich's points are big misses, and you don't need huge resources to get usability and design right in the first place, just solid decision-making and a sense of priorities. It's sad to see them in this predicament.

The R lens 'capability' looked like a half-arsed afterthought for serious users, from the start. You have to work in the field in tough conditions to appreciate how bad the shutter release, bottom plate and EVF issues are.

'Once Sony gets around to putting that fabulous A99/VG900 sensor and EVF into a stills-focused mirrorless body...' Indeed. Quite so. Late 2013 is the word.



Feb 28, 2013 at 12:57 AM
douglasf13
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · The New Leica M - Is HERE!


naturephoto1 wrote:
Lee,

Not haven't read the review and not knowing Ming Thein and his shooting habits, but I would guess that most M shooters shoot quickly and without a tripod. Most also will rely on the Rangefinder or zone focus for M lenses in the Wide Angle to only 90mm or 135mm focal lengths. If they did use the EVF with the enlargement, most would just focus and recompose or again rely on the one focus. Most M shooters would not think in terms or expect to use longer focal length or the camera with zooms or Macro lenses.

But, R shooters
...Show more

All certainly true and valid, but, come to think of it, you still had to focus in the center and recompose with your R cameras, or use scale focusing, so I guess it's not that much of a change, right?



Feb 28, 2013 at 01:14 AM
charles.K
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · The New Leica M - Is HERE!


Great stuff! The M240 is about to hit the shelve

Seriously, there are still issues with LV and the ergonomics that may not suit a lot of people and fully appreciate those perspectives. But I can say having the M9P and M-M, the M9P will be traded immediately in for the M240. I have mentioned before I have almost never used the moveable LV. I feel for people, that do wish for this function, but may be better suited fitting the R Lenses to the D800 instead with the full functionality.

There are so many ergonomic and functional improvements with the M240 over the M9P and the pricing has reduced in effect. I do applaud Leica for this! I have an investment in the M lenses and just love the IQ and style of these wonderful lenses. But let's say Sony or whoever would bring out a FF RF style body, that M lenses could also be adapted with precision, this would most definitely give Leica some serious competition, I would adopt one very quickly. That being said, I love the RF style of composition, and the ease of taking real shots in the streets and portraits without the complexities of menus and frustration of setting up the cam.

I do have the RX1 also, and I am being continuously surprised by the IQ, DR and low light ability for a FF cam. Smaller and ergonomic FF cameras are at the edge of commercial reality, but still at a price! As photographers, we decide whether the package suits us, as there so many choices now!

Edited on Feb 28, 2013 at 02:55 AM · View previous versions



Feb 28, 2013 at 01:16 AM
ryankarr
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · The New Leica M - Is HERE!


I think R users need to move on. Waiting around hoping a company will produce the perfect camera for you is ludicrous.


Feb 28, 2013 at 01:29 AM
joe88
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · The New Leica M - Is HERE!


this is probably the 3rd or 4th thread on the new M240 on the ALT forum ...

I appreciated the OP letting know that the camera is finally launched, albeit to a select few in the "prestige and luxury" Asian market, which again tells us the target Leica market nowadays. Hopefully there are some cameras for us folks in the USA soon?





Feb 28, 2013 at 02:02 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · The New Leica M - Is HERE!


Well said Douglas and Ryan. I can't remember if it was the R8 or the R9 that had scrollable magnified view. And definitely, what are R lens owners waiting for? To die from extremely old age? Waiting for something that's never going to happen?

IMHO, the M was never designed as a R solution. The body simply cannot balance nor be held properly with a heavy large lens, even with the hand grip and whatever other accessories. I think that Leica having even claimed that the M being an R solution is ridiculous.



Feb 28, 2013 at 02:08 AM
telyt
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · The New Leica M - Is HERE!


douglasf13 wrote:
... come to think of it, you still had to focus in the center and recompose with your R cameras, or use scale focusing, so I guess it's not that much of a change, right?


Wrong. I use a plain matte viewscreen and focus wherever the subject is in the viewfinder. It's a critical feature for me.

Scrolling a magnified live-view image is a "meh" feature for me. My subjects move much too often to be following them around with a scroll wheel. A big full image would be much better for me.


Edited on Feb 28, 2013 at 02:34 AM · View previous versions



Feb 28, 2013 at 02:27 AM
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