Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer

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Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding ...

amonline
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p.2 #1 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer

You're a student. You admittedly don't have the gear. You admittedly chose to decline. Now you're second guessing.

The question is, why?

The bigger question is, do you want to be responsible for someone's once in a lifetime documentation of their wedding day?

Answer those two, and we'll all move forward.

Feb 24, 2013 at 02:13 AM

TTLKurtis
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p.2 #2 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer

To be clear they said they didn't lump you into that group of people but they actually did and they are back pedaling.

I commit fully because I don't care. You are the same as every other who comes along with this stupid question even if the scenario is unique in minor ways.

It's a bad idea.

But if you decide you want to do it, knock yourself out. There's nothing we can tell you here that you can't figure out by reading up on your own. If you came here with some intelligent specific questions that would be one thing. But really what was the point of your post?...

Feb 24, 2013 at 03:10 AM

Ballistics
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p.2 #3 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer

amonline wrote:
You're a student. You admittedly chose to decline. Now you're second guessing.

The bigger question is, do you want to be responsible for someone's once in a lifetime documentation of their wedding day?

Answer those two, and we'll all move forward.

Twice in a lifetime. It's her second wedding.

You're a student. You admittedly don't have the gear
So what? And I said that I would rent better gear than the gear that I have.

The question is, why?
I've turned down 2 other weddings before this, and turned this one down.
I was then re-approached, and even after explaining my lack of experience
and what could go wrong I was asked to reconsider for a second time.

The bigger question is, do you want to be responsible for someone's once in a lifetime documentation of their wedding day?

This is the reason why I've turned down the weddings that I've been offered, however I was asked to reconsider. So I'm reconsidering. I'm not begging someone to shoot their wedding. I'm being asked to after declining. So now that I have disclosed the potential for a failure of a shoot, I feel like there is not much responsibility to worry about. When I speak with the bride, I will again give them an opportunity to make the decision to find someone else and I will also find out what her expectations are.

Feb 24, 2013 at 03:13 AM

fsiagian
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p.2 #4 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer

There is always the first time (although wife's boss is rather scary haha). Give it a try with well preparations. It can be fun and you may like it and pursue it as a career.

Feb 24, 2013 at 03:22 AM

Ballistics
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p.2 #5 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer

TTLKurtis wrote:
To be clear they said they didn't lump you into that group of people but they actually did and they are back pedaling.

I commit fully because I don't care. You are the same as every other who comes along with this stupid question even if the scenario is unique in minor ways.

It's a bad idea.

But if you decide you want to do it, knock yourself out. There's nothing we can tell you here that you can't figure out by reading up on your own. If you came here with some intelligent specific questions that would be one thing. But really what was the point of your post?...

Dude, if you don't like it, don't cry about it and try to make subtle indirect insults like a child. Just stop posting in the thread already.

There's nothing similar about me and that "group" except we're both in the wedding forum being badgered by the bitter people of the forum. There's nothing about this thread that says that I am shooting a wedding because I have to so stop. I'm making a conscious decision on my own volition and a part of my decision making is to establish dialogue with experienced people in order to come up with those "intelligent questions".

Feb 24, 2013 at 03:23 AM

Ballistics
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p.2 #6 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer

fsiagian wrote:
There is always the first time (although wife's boss is rather scary haha). Give it a try with well preparations. It can be fun and you may like it and pursue it as a career.

Trying to figure out what those preparations are lol.

Feb 24, 2013 at 03:25 AM

TTLKurtis
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p.2 #7 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer

Ballistics wrote:
TTLKurtis wrote:
To be clear they said they didn't lump you into that group of people but they actually did and they are back pedaling.

I commit fully because I don't care. You are the same as every other who comes along with this stupid question even if the scenario is unique in minor ways.

It's a bad idea.

But if you decide you want to do it, knock yourself out. There's nothing we can tell you here that you can't figure out by reading up on your own. If you came here with some intelligent specific questions that would be one thing. But really what was the point of your post?...

Dude, if you don't like it, don't cry about it and try to make subtle indirect insults like a child. Just stop posting in the thread already.

There's nothing similar about me and that "group" except we're both in the wedding forum being badgered by the bitter people of the forum. There's nothing about this thread that says that I am shooting a wedding because I have to so stop. I'm making a conscious decision on my own volition and a part of my decision making is to establish dialogue with experienced people in order to come up with those "intelligent questions".

You're here looking for us to give you intelligent questions? If you can't come up with some of those on your own its showing a pretty large lack of effort on your part why would we want to help you?

And I'm sorry if my insults are too subtle for you I will try to make them less subtle.

Feb 24, 2013 at 03:33 AM

Ballistics
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p.2 #8 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer

You're here looking for us to give you intelligent questions?
If you can't come up with some of those on your own its showing a pretty large lack of effort on your part why would we want to help you?

wut? Is that really what you got out of that? No, that's not what I said. I said that a part of my decision making is to establish dialogue with experienced people in order to come up with those questions. I guess to water that down for you - I'm looking to start a conversation with people who have done weddings before and by talking with them, I would be able to ask more questions.
Small example. I didn't mention insurance, so if someone said you're going to need insurance, then I would ask "Oh right. Where can I get insurance?" They would respond with X company, and then I would ask "Can you get insurance for just the day?" Answer would follow. That's establishing a dialogue, and then coming up with questions.

And I'm sorry if my insults are too subtle for you I will try to make them less subtle.
I'm seeing that the chances of actually having a relevant and mature conversation with you are getting smaller and smaller as each post is posted.

Feb 24, 2013 at 03:42 AM

TTLKurtis
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p.2 #9 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer

Do you have a state sales and use tax permit? Are you incorporated for legal separation from business? Do you have commercial equipment insurance? Do you have liability / errors and ommissioms insurance? Do you have a contract drawn up? Do you have any idea what to deliver? Have you thought about turn-around time? Print release? Have you thought about what packages you might offer where you could profit after expenses fixed and variable? That's a good start to the questions you need to be thinking about.

Feb 24, 2013 at 04:04 AM

rprouty
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p.2 #10 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer

Shoot it, you pics will be as good as half of the ones posted here.

Feb 24, 2013 at 04:20 AM

amonline
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p.2 #11 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer

Good luck!

Feb 24, 2013 at 04:39 AM

lukeb
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p.2 #12 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer

TTLKurtis wrote:
Let me make something clear to you, they are asking you because they know you and think they'll get a deal. Not because they think you're God's gift to photography. This happens every day to photographers of all kinds and at all levels. They confirmed this by 'selling' you on their wedding being a second marriage etc. and downplaying it. This isn't that important to them, and it's going to do very little to help you prepare to shoot weddings if you really want to pursue it, IMO.

Do whatever makes you happy, but be honest with yourself about what that is.

+1 - If you asked me for my opinion, I would leave this to the wedding pro's.

I've been making a living with cameras since the 60's - I shot 3 or 4 back when I first started, and quickly gave it up. People find out you are a photographer and want a 'deal.'

Wedding photography is specialized like many other types of photography. Why risk making these people unhappy? Why risk getting a bad reputation because you don't have the necessary experience and skills, even if you have the talent?

Do yourself a favor and pass this one up.

Feb 24, 2013 at 04:43 AM

Ballistics
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p.2 #13 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer

TTLKurtis wrote:
Do you have a state sales and use tax permit? Are you incorporated for legal separation from business? Do you have commercial equipment insurance? Do you have liability / errors and ommissioms insurance?

Not going to register for taxes on one wedding. I'm looking into liability insurance with e&o. How much should I expect to pay for PLI with E&O for the day?

Do you have a contract drawn up?

Haven't even met with her yet, so no.

Do you have any idea what to deliver?
I still have to ask her what her expectations are, but all I plan on doing is taking and editing pictures.
If her expectations are higher than that, I'm walking.

Have you thought about turn-around time?
Shouldn't really be anything more than a couple of days tops.

Print release?
I have a generic one provided by my school for the students.

Have you thought about what packages you might offer where you could profit after expenses fixed and variable?
Yes.

So taking it a step further, when you shoot a wedding, how do you go about picking the images you want to edit? Do you pick your best and show her and let her pick, or do you just pick the ones you think are the best and edit them. Also how many good pictures should you have for a 3 hour reception? Any links for wedding albums?

Thanks for the homework by the way. I appreciate it.

Feb 24, 2013 at 04:44 AM

Ballistics
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p.2 #14 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer

lukeb wrote:
TTLKurtis wrote:
Let me make something clear to you, they are asking you because they know you and think they'll get a deal. Not because they think you're God's gift to photography. This happens every day to photographers of all kinds and at all levels. They confirmed this by 'selling' you on their wedding being a second marriage etc. and downplaying it. This isn't that important to them, and it's going to do very little to help you prepare to shoot weddings if you really want to pursue it, IMO.

Do whatever makes you happy, but be honest with yourself about what that is.

+1 - If you asked me for my opinion, I would leave this to the wedding pro's.

I've been making a living with cameras since the 60's - I shot 3 or 4 back when I first started, and quickly gave it up. People find out you are a photographer and want a 'deal.'

Wedding photography is specialized like many other types of photography. Why risk making these people unhappy? Why risk getting a bad reputation because you don't have the necessary experience and skills, even if you have the talent?

Do yourself a favor and pass this one up.

I think it's because I'm not making photography a profession that I'm giving it a shot. I got out of the Navy and decided to take up photography just to collect the GI Bill and while it's fun having a website and a portfolio and all of that, I do it merely for fun. It was passed off to me as a worry free, NBD kind of thing that they just wanted someone there to take pictures. Again, I'm flirting with the idea because it's been presented as a stress free gig. If she starts making it seem like it is more than that, I'll take a hike. Make no mistake, I am making it a firm point that they shouldn't have high expectations if they want me as a photographer.

Feb 24, 2013 at 04:51 AM

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p.2 #15 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer

rprouty wrote:
Shoot it, you pics will be as good as half of the ones posted here.

Not sure if you're serious

Feb 24, 2013 at 04:52 AM

TTLKurtis
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p.2 #16 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer

Not going to register for taxes on one wedding. I'm looking into liability insurance with e&o. How much should I expect to pay for PLI with E&O for the day?

You need to make sure in whatever contract you have that you make zero guarantees about client satisfaction and that they understand you are not a wedding photographer or even a professional photographer and that you can not be held liable for any damages should the pictures be terrible, should you lose the photographs, whatever... This needs to be very clearly understood, because you could be sued personally. Not to mention the fact that it could potentially affect your wife's employment or at least her work environment. In that case, the liability insurance thing is less of a concern and so far as I'm aware nobody is going to want to insure you 'for the day' - that's not how insurance works (to my understanding). You will want equipment insurance however if you plan to do photography for money.

Turn-around shouldn't really be anything more than a couple of days tops.

Have you had to deal with the types of lighting you'll be dealing with at a wedding before? Or the quantity of images you'll be producing? Depending on how picky you are and how much you want to put into it, it could certainly take you a lot more than a couple of days. I would give yourself a pretty big safety net just in case you end up needing it. 30 or 60 days isn't too bad in terms of a 'standard turn-around' and leaves a lot more time for 'oh shit' moments.

So taking it a step further, when you shoot a wedding, how do you go about picking the images you want to edit? Do you pick your best and show her and let her pick, or do you just pick the ones you think are the best and edit them. Also how many good pictures should you have for a 3 hour reception? Any links for wedding albums?

This varies for every photographer and ultimately if you were going to continue doing this you have to figure out what makes most sense for you and how you prefer to do things and what aligns with your values etc... Personally, I cull the images (select them) before I edit them and with two photographers I can end up with anywhere from 400-800 photographs on average. I do not show them anything I've culled, as far as they are concerned those images don't exist.

I think if you're going to do this, I would make it a condition that they need to pay you sufficiently for you to cover the majority of the day's activities from getting-ready to the exit so that this is a worthwhile learning experience for you. If this is just talking about doing the reception only, that's the biggest pain in the ass to shoot and in my opinion the least interesting.

In terms of wedding albums... well, there's a bunch of links in the read-me-first thread in this forum however the majority of the wedding album vendors are not going to work with you unless you're a working professional with a website and tax id, etc.

Feb 24, 2013 at 05:11 AM

Daboyle
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p.2 #17 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer

In all seriousness, if you think of this as a stress free gig, you need to really re-evaluate what you are doing. While yes, weddings don't have to be the nightmare that they potentially can be, they sure aren't a walk in the park. And if you treat it like that, then you really are doing a disservice to the client and yourself.

So now that youve established you will more than likely shoot the wedding, you need to think about gear. What do you have in terms of bodies, lenses, and lighting? How much gear will you be renting? Do you even know what to rent in terms of secondary gear? What is the total cost of renting that gear? Make sure to get to know how to fully use the gear BEFORE the wedding.

You need to figure this out before meeting with the bride to be. You need a number in your head that you are OK with. As far as insurance, it will be a sticky situation.

If you don't have state sales tax or business license, you wont be insured if she sues, you damage equipment or get it stolen, nada. Because you are making profit off this gig - and if business insurance found out and then found out you were operating illegally, they will walk away. And you can't cover it under personal and home, because again, you are making money.... and honestly I don't think insurance will just cover one day. You can check, but I'd be surprised and if they do, the fee will be pretty high, say 50-200 bucks depending on level of coverage

Feb 24, 2013 at 05:15 AM

dwerther
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p.2 #18 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer

Reading this post was a little like watching a train wreck. One can see a bad ending coming but just can't look away.

OP - I like to see the best in people so I am going to assume, with you being relatively new to FM, that you did not know what you were walking into with your post. You are correct in that you did not ask for validation of the decision to shoot it or not. When you said "where should I go from here" you were asking what other considerations should you have and what else would be expected of you. Based on the responses you got you can see that pros here thought that you were asking if you should shoot it or not. They have very good reasons for adamantly suggesting you do not.

Even if the bride tells you it is a second wedding and not to sweat it, you should consider the possibility that she does not mean what you think she means. Or even what she said she means. She does NOT mean that she does not want complete coverage of her wedding with no gaps in the important parts, and that having good photos is not important to her. I suspect that as others have suggested her motives are at least partly financial, and that she is expecting "good enough" from you. Real wedding photographers have the experience, gear (and backup gear), and the ability to think on their feet to deliver quality in almost any situation. Much thought should be given to the consequences to you, the couple, the family, and your sister if you do not deliver to match her stated, and her "real" expectations.

And finally, successful wedding photographers do another thing very well - they communicate with patience, diplomacy, and professionalism. This includes standing up for themselves, but in a constructive and non-confrontational way. Based on your posts here you might want to keep that in mind.

So go ahead and shoot it. Same as Thomas Edison, you will learn much, including a dozen lessons about what does not work. If you deliver to her expectations you will be a hero. If not then everyone involved learns a lesson.

Good luck to you sir.

Feb 24, 2013 at 05:36 AM

kwhaley29
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p.2 #19 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer

Many photographers have been in your shoes including me. When people have faith in you it's easy to get caught up in the "idea" of being a wedding photographer before you're actually ready. If I had it to do over again I would have been a second shooter for many many weddings before ever agreeing to take on my first as the lead. No amount of homework can replace the knowledge that you'll gain through experience and it is truly invaluable.

Having said that, whether you decide to shoot the wedding or not there is a wealth of information on this site and it comes from photographers of all skill levels. My advice is to be a sponge. Dig through the threads and absorb as much as you can. What you learn here will be useful when you're out gaining experience.

Feb 24, 2013 at 05:37 AM

alohadave
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p.2 #20 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer

Ballistics wrote:
Trust me, it's not worth it since this is your wife's boss. We are being harsh because in the end, if anything goes wrong, your wife may end up dealing with and hearing about it. Perhaps if you were a wedding pro it would be a different story, but you aren't, so this is not a good situation to be in at all. Walk away.

I'm not concerned about who it is.

Dude, I applaud you for having the biggest brass balls in history. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes if the pictures turn out bad and your wife gets the heat from her boss.

Feb 24, 2013 at 05:53 AM

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