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Archive 2013 · Is a IPS/Pro monitor is necessary if one doesn't print much.
  
 
photosenior
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p.1 #1 · Is a IPS/Pro monitor is necessary if one doesn't print much.


Since the poll cut off the tittle...
The question here is if a IPS/Pro monitor is necessary if one doesn't print much.

Is an My old monitor kicked the electronic bucket, and I've been researching replacement monitors.
I typically am not printing for the walls, and most of my clients just want files for the electronic medium.
Given this situation I don't know if a ISP/pro display is necessary.
Since most of the world doesn't have an ISP is it worth it having one for editing?
I'd like your collective wisdom on this.

Thanks for the help!
Ben



Feb 12, 2013 at 10:14 PM
Bifurcator
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p.1 #2 · Is a IPS/Pro monitor is necessary if one doesn't print much.


Is it worth it and is it necessary are two different questions. Is it worth it? Well IPS 23" monitors can be had new for $250 so worth it, yes. Necessary? As opposed to the $180 to $250 TN monitors of the same size? No. The differences are very subtile and most of it is viewing angle where the TN color and contrast shifts with angles even as slight as 10 or 15˚. In the same breath if you're sitting still then your VA only changes a few degrees anyway so...

The other differences are or may be the color compression scheme that TN monitors use. Most only actually have 6bpc color and use a dithering technique to produce an (apparent) 24bit (8bpc) color image. I'm not sure if all IPS monitors are 8bit, 6bit or vary between manufacturers. The TN dithering is pretty awesome tho. You can't typically see the dithering except in algorithmically generated gradients or the rare 100% noiseless sky photo.




Feb 13, 2013 at 05:19 AM
theSuede
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p.1 #3 · Is a IPS/Pro monitor is necessary if one doesn't print much.


Well, even if you don't go for the pro solutions with calibration / profiling and the whole shebang - you'll notice a very big step up in pure usability with an IPS screen.

What you ideally should get is a well functioning, stable sRGB monitor of ok general quality - and that does not have to cost much more than a hundred dollars more than the worst crap imaginable out there.



Feb 13, 2013 at 09:53 PM
15Bit
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p.1 #4 · Is a IPS/Pro monitor is necessary if one doesn't print much.


There are various price "sweetspot" screens available, ranging from relatively low prices to insanely high ones. Price generally depends on the screen size of course, and whether you want standard or wide gamut, proper programmable hardware calibration tables, higher bit-depth etc. Most of us here are happy with low-mid end models and a hardware calibration device. I tend to buy Dell's, and am happy with my U2410. I think the U2412 is a decent enough low end screen too. Good review resources are http://www.tftcentral.co.uk and http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/reviews.html


Feb 14, 2013 at 06:40 AM
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p.1 #5 · Is a IPS/Pro monitor is necessary if one doesn't print much.


Hi theSuede,

If I may ask, what do you mean by "pure usability"?





Feb 14, 2013 at 06:59 AM
neil_johnson
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p.1 #6 · Is a IPS/Pro monitor is necessary if one doesn't print much.


I would say yes. Regardless if you print or not you still want the colors to be as accurate as possible to what you are shooting and to me makes it a no brainer for photographers. Non IPS monitors have typically a much smaller color gamut, reproduce the colors less accurately and offer less tweaking options.

That said there are a number of IPS variations that really vary in price and you don't need to spend a fortune to get into IPS. A good entry monitor into IPS would be the Dell U2412 as was suggested above. Its price is reasonable (and nearly in line with cheaper TN panels) and can be calibrated easily using profiles found online. HP also makes a couple IPS monitors as a decent price that are comparable. Since you seem to be conscious of price I won't go into higher end IPS monitors that will start around $700.

Best of luck.



Feb 14, 2013 at 04:31 PM
theSuede
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p.1 #7 · Is a IPS/Pro monitor is necessary if one doesn't print much.


Bifurcator wrote:
Hi theSuede,
If I may ask, what do you mean by "pure usability"?


Of course you may.
...........

...........

Well, in "usability" I also include "consistency" - which tends to be a very important part of having a solid workflow that you can have confidence in. I do like to KNOW what I'm sending a customer. It also protects me from any kind of later conflicts about colour, brightness and contrast, as I can always KNOW that what I sent was ok, and that it's probably something in the workflow on their end that is messing something up.

This consistency includes knowing that it doesn't matter if I looked at my screen from 5 degrees higher head>screen surface angle than I usually do, the contrast is still within a small error margin. Meaning that I won't overdo or overcompensate for what is basically a screen error when doing the PP or culling of my shots.

On a bad TN screen, contrast can take a 50% hit (1:1000 to 1:500) from just a 5 change in vertical viewing angle. Colors can take a +/-10 dE hit from a +/-10 horizontal angle shift.

Since most people would say that a 1 Ev over/under exposure is noticeable, or a +/-1000K WB error is bad, I wonder why so many are making their decisions about their work on equipment that in itself gives much higher error strengths than that.

Since I know color by numbers, I could in theory get correct color on a grayscale screen just by using the color picker on known or at least semi-known areas in the image. So I could work on a really bad screen and still get the results at least in the ballpark, good enough for most customers.
The question is WHY I would want to do that, when a reliable IPS monitor where I can trust what I see costs less (in additional price over a bad TN screen) than what many people spend on UV filters or a new camera strap.



Feb 15, 2013 at 12:18 AM
RDKirk
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p.1 #8 · Is a IPS/Pro monitor is necessary if one doesn't print much.


This consistency includes knowing that it doesn't matter if I looked at my screen from 5 degrees higher head>screen surface angle than I usually do, the contrast is still within a small error margin. Meaning that I won't overdo or overcompensate for what is basically a screen error when doing the PP or culling of my shots.

Yes, and even if you think you can hold your head really still through one session, will you be able to achieve the exact same head position in the next session?

Of all characteristics of the IPS screen, I think this is the most important--and it's to be had on even the least expensive.



Feb 15, 2013 at 02:39 AM
Bifurcator
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p.1 #9 · Is a IPS/Pro monitor is necessary if one doesn't print much.


Thanks man, that makes sense. If a person regularly has customers then especially so.



Feb 15, 2013 at 03:07 AM
photosenior
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p.1 #10 · Is a IPS/Pro monitor is necessary if one doesn't print much.


Thanks for all the input and thoughts.

It looks like a good portion of you recommend a ips.
I currently have the sypder 3 calibration and was using the dispcalgui opensource software to calibrate.
It still is bit of cognitive dissidence for me to think that I will see something different than my client with out an ips display...

Thanks for your thoughts!




Feb 15, 2013 at 06:12 AM
 

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Alan321
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p.1 #11 · Is a IPS/Pro monitor is necessary if one doesn't print much.


You mentioned "pro" when describing the monitor. Did you really mean a high-end monitor ? or just any IPS monitor ? The high end one will have wide colour gamut, more bits per colour channel, better colour uniformity and tonal uniformity, and can be profiled more quickly.

Necessary ? No.
Desirable ? Yes.

If you use only your monitor to view your photos and if you appreciate seeing them at their best then a high end monitor is perhaps even more appropriate than if you normally only look at prints. It is for me, anyway.

No matter what type of monitor you get the chances are that the client will have something different and incorrectly set up and therefore inferior. Every client will have something different and so you cannot even adjust yours to match theirs. Therefore, have something that shows the images as they ought to be and let the client worry about viewing them or printing them appropriately. At least you will know it is his fault and not yours if he sees different colours.

- Alan



Feb 17, 2013 at 05:26 AM
dshigeno
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p.1 #12 · Is a IPS/Pro monitor is necessary if one doesn't print much.


[(via LogicBuy)] Speaking of IPS monitors, the UltraSharp U2711 is on sale at Dell for $649.00 including free shipping.

27-inch Dell UltraSharp U2711 2560x1440 IPS-Panel LCD Monitor for $649 with free shipping

Just add the monitor to your cart, then enter coupon code "RDSVHG$9FHDJ44" on the view cart screen, and click on the "Apply Coupon" hyperlink.

Coupon expires 2/19/2013 at 7:00 AM CT.

DTS


* fine print: "Coupon may not be combined with other offers, discounts or coupons. Taxes, shipping, handling and other fees apply. Valid for new U.S. online purchases through the Dell Small Office Electronics and Accessories site and for phone orders of electronics and accessories purchased without a system only. Free shipping and handling offer available in Continental (except Alaska) U.S. only. Availability of electronics and accessories varies and quantities may be limited. Dell reserves the right to cancel orders arising from pricing or other errors. Coupon expires 2/19/2013 at 7:00 AM CT. Not valid for resellers and/or online auctions. Purchase limit of 5 items per order, but coupon discount applies to only 1 item."



Feb 17, 2013 at 06:03 AM
Sam tran
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p.1 #13 · Is a IPS/Pro monitor is necessary if one doesn't print much.


Newegg has a 29" DELL IPS (U2913WM) for the same price @ $650 - no coupon :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824260115



Feb 17, 2013 at 06:23 PM
photosenior
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p.1 #14 · Is a IPS/Pro monitor is necessary if one doesn't print much.


Thanks for the thoughts. I guess I'm looking for a used IPS and the ultrasharps are leading the charge.
Are there other good recommendations?
Thanks!



Feb 18, 2013 at 04:57 AM
RDKirk
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p.1 #15 · Is a IPS/Pro monitor is necessary if one doesn't print much.


I'd look very closely at this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/798329-REG/Viewsonic_VP2365_LED_23_Widescreen_LED.html

Notice that even the most negative reviews (four out of five stars being the worst) are about personal preferences with form-factor characteristics, not image quality.



Feb 18, 2013 at 03:07 PM
theSuede
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p.1 #16 · Is a IPS/Pro monitor is necessary if one doesn't print much.


Regarding the statement: "Viewers will not be on calibrated screens".

No, but their error spread will be even, taken as a large population. Some will have monitors that give "this" error, some will have the opposite.

From a purely statistical PoV, getting it right before sending the data out is always the preferred method. If you're unsure, your data may be out on one edge of the average error spread - then when a viewer that has a problem tending towards the OTHER edge views the image, his "viewing error" will be twice as strong. Keeping your base material centered in the average is the best way to make sure the viewer gets the least amount of error as possible.

And should the need ever arise to send something away for print or publication, you know when you can rightfully return a result as "not satisfactory". If you work on unknown equipment of questionable quality you can never say it's an error on the responding part's end - it MIGHT as well be on your end.

The only time I make leeway for publicized images is if something is going to be published on a site not generally photographically oriented, like a news site or something like that. Then I can with reasonable certainty know that most of the viewers will be on screens at least twice as bright as graphical work recommends. Then I make sure that the work I transfer isn't erring towards being to bright already at the start.



Feb 18, 2013 at 08:45 PM
RDKirk
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p.1 #17 · Is a IPS/Pro monitor is necessary if one doesn't print much.


Then I can with reasonable certainty know that most of the viewers will be on screens at least twice as bright as graphical work recommends.

Almost certainly.



Feb 18, 2013 at 09:56 PM
vkumar
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p.1 #18 · Is a IPS/Pro monitor is necessary if one doesn't print much.


Sam tran wrote:
Newegg has a 29" DELL IPS (U2913WM) for the same price @ $650 - no coupon :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824260115


This seems to be a heck of deal. But how will it be for photography. 2560 x 1080 resolution, 21:9 ratio. How will the size of the text at this resolution. Thanks for any feedback.



Feb 19, 2013 at 03:15 AM
vkumar
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p.1 #19 · Is a IPS/Pro monitor is necessary if one doesn't print much.


Anyone have feedback on this?


Feb 20, 2013 at 05:43 PM
dshigeno
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p.1 #20 · Is a IPS/Pro monitor is necessary if one doesn't print much.


vkumar wrote:
This seems to be a heck of deal. But how will it be for photography. 2560 x 1080 resolution, 21:9 ratio. How will the size of the text at this resolution. Thanks for any feedback.


The U2913WM does not support AdobeRGB mode. Color depth on the U2913WM is 16.7 million colors (8 bit). A monitor such as the U2711 supports both sRGB and AdobeRGB modes, and has a much wider (64 times as many colors) color gamut with a color depth of 1.07 billion colors (10bit). That's one of reasons why the U2913WM costs less.

Does this matter for your photography? That depends on your workflow, whether you make prints of your images, and what process is used making your prints, etc... I suggest you read the Color Management chapter in Martin Evening's book(s) Adobe Photoshop CSx[insert your version here] for Photographers. Here's a quote "The default sRGB color space is widely regarded as an unsuitable space for photographic work because the color gamut of sRGB is in some ways smaller than the color gamut of CMYK and most inkjet printers."

So, again, it all depends on your application, your workflow, your process. It's possible you may never notice the difference in color between the U2713WM and a monitor like the U2711. I've been shooting digital for 7 years now and I'm only now reaching the point where I want to get more serious about color and I am investing accordingly. I'm doing this because I want the colors on the prints hanging on my walls to be consistent with the colors on my screen after I've spent a lot of time post-processing an image. Back when I didn't care about prints, it was not worth it for me to spend the extra $$ on a monitor with better color capabilities. Now it is worth it to me.

Do you make prints or anticipate your images being published in print form?

The points already discussed in this thread are good ones to consider in your decision.

DTS



Feb 20, 2013 at 08:35 PM
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