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Archive 2013 · Man... what happened?
  
 
atattn
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p.3 #1 · Man... what happened?


I don't know why the slow down, I have noticed it as a long time lurker. I have posted only once and I asked for ad received criticism. I am aware of my negative, defensive personality so I have to pry my eyes open and force myself to look at things in a way that is somewhat unnatural to me sometimes, especially a criticism which is somewhat negative by definition. With that intro out of the way I'm going to comment on criticisms. When I posted that first post I had received a lot of positive comments on the pictures from my daughter's and wife's friends that had seen them. I knew that posting them here would be different as you, the forum members (jeffries, Steve Wylie, Steady all critiqued and suggested and I appreciated it) would view the pictures from a critical photographic standpoint. What I wonder is how many people who ask for critiques are actually asking for confirmation of what their friends family, aquaintances have already told them about what a great photo it is, then when the receive honest helpful criticism and suggestions for betterment they are hurt or defensive. Just a thought as more and more prosumer and pro cameras are ending up in non photographer hands like mine.


Jan 31, 2013 at 08:06 PM
friscoron
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p.3 #2 · Man... what happened?



attatn, believe it or not, I was a writer for the News Journal in the mid-90s! I do agree that I think ppl who don't really know what the forum is like might receive a tougher critique than what they were expecting for the reasons you mentioned. Personally, I realized there were a lot of ppl who posted their pics here, then forgot about them and never came back. There was one just from over a week ago where the OP received two pages of responses, and never presumably came back to read them. They weren't harsh responses at all, in fact quite favorable.



Jan 31, 2013 at 08:14 PM
friscoron
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p.3 #3 · Man... what happened?


forreal wrote:
I think it is cause and effect from various posters demanding control and complaining about posts. Then moderators removing good folks from the line up. But hey, that's just my take.


It takes a lot to get removed from this forum. I can't think of a single one that I disagreed with, but I only know of 1 or 2. As for complaining about posts, each forum has its own culture. It could just be that the person is not fitting in with the culture of the forum, tried to change the forum to his/her culture, failed, moved on. But in that case, it was probably the best move. We can't be all things to all people.



Jan 31, 2013 at 08:16 PM
friscoron
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p.3 #4 · Man... what happened?


Richard Booth wrote:
Like most here, I have noticed this as well and have a few thoughts. In this forum particularly, we seem to get more than our share of trolls or those looking to pick a fight or share their political beliefs. We all have our political opinions, but keep them to yourself.
Next, I'm a bit turned off with the popup ads. I understand that this is a business and was disappointed to see them appear at first but they were limited mostly to photo gear. Now, I wade through ads for poolbuilders, and appliance stores.
Finally, we used to have
...Show more

Richard, I think we all experience this forum differently. I'm not a big fan of politics/bureaucracy, so I really don't pay much attention to it. I have friends on Facebook, however, that I've turned off simply because they keep posting political statements ad nauseum, and the views are always extreme. So I've just never noticed it, same with the popup ads. I've never had a popup ad appear as a new window from being here on FM. He's got some ads up on top, and that's fine, doesn't interfere.
As for ppl who are trying to build a customer base. We have had ppl who were doing that, only one comes to mind, a guy who ended up being based out of L.A. But haven't heard much from him in at least six months, and not that much before either, except really to promote his workshops. We do have ppl who clearly are trying to draw ppl to their blogs, or to "like" them on FB. I ignore those things.

I can see where you think we've lost our rudder, but I think we've just temporarily lost our steam. Ebb and flow. Even today, I've seen a whole bunch of new posts, which makes this forum a whole lot more fun.



Jan 31, 2013 at 08:24 PM
friscoron
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p.3 #5 · Man... what happened?


Steady Hand wrote:
Given that the format of this forum style of presentation will not likely change, I believe it is up to the members here to encourage, adopt, and show by example, a more robust and informative post about the MAKING of the photos they present here.


Steady, I really think that sharing more info about the setup of a shot, or the post-processing,really adds to the post. It also helps if you mention any struggles you had in the making of the photo, or something that you tried that worked out really well. Make it more of a dialogue than just posting a pic and that's basically it. Sometimes, I just don't know how to respond to a poster. Does he/she want the pat on the back, or does he/she want us to break it down and offer alternative suggestions?

Ron



Jan 31, 2013 at 08:28 PM
Steady Hand
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p.3 #6 · Man... what happened?


Access wrote:
Steady Hand, the thing is, forum websites have died for a reason.
- content is primarily written word, not much in the way of picture, no video or audio, etc.
- it doesn't lend itself to smart devices (smartphone, tablet, etc.)
- the structure is top-level and fixed
- some level of administration or policing is required (typically by third-party).
- information priority is based solely on the frequency of posts to that thread

On a social site, the structure is more group-within-group, people create their own groups, based on interest, location, friendships, or whatever. Groups grow, shrink, or gain/lose relevance over time. By and large,
...Show more

I appreciate your thoughts on this subject.

Thanks for adding to the discussion. I agree on most points you made above.




Jan 31, 2013 at 09:06 PM
Ernie Aubert
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p.3 #7 · Man... what happened?


Another take on people not adding details about how they made the photo is one I can relate to: To me it seems a bit presumptuous to assume that viewers are less knowledgeable than I am, and wonder about how I did it. I'm sure that a large majority of FM members are way more advanced than I am. Heck, a lot of you are pros, and I'm just a hobbyist, and just a technician at that, not an artist. I'm happy to answer any question anyone might have, but life has taught me not to behave as if I'd been asked a question when I haven't been. If I were a Jim Wilson, that would be a different story!


Jan 31, 2013 at 09:19 PM
friscoron
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p.3 #8 · Man... what happened?



I can relate to what you're saying here, Ernie. When we talk about our setup, it's as if we're stating that we're the subject matter expert. I've struggled with that myself. On the other hand, sometimes we don't want to admit what we don't know, and explaining our process bares everything to the public, exposes what we don't know.

So I think we all have to figure out what our comfort level is in sharing, and then share what we can. The more we share, the better the discussion.



Jan 31, 2013 at 09:52 PM
Steady Hand
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p.3 #9 · Man... what happened?


Ernie Aubert wrote:
Another take on people not adding details about how they made the photo is one I can relate to: To me it seems a bit presumptuous to assume that viewers are less knowledgeable than I am, and wonder about how I did it. I'm sure that a large majority of FM members are way more advanced than I am. Heck, a lot of you are pros, and I'm just a hobbyist, and just a technician at that, not an artist. I'm happy to answer any question anyone might have, but life has taught me not to behave as if
...Show more

I don't see it that way.

IF you are less experienced than someone else (your presumed "pros"), yet you make an outstanding photo using some technique, or while overcoming some challenge, then YOU may have something valuable to pass on to the forum readers, whether they are inexperienced or highly experienced. I know I like to learn something new about photography every day, and I don't mind whether the person who shows/shares/tells/teaches is someone more experienced than me or not.




Jan 31, 2013 at 10:11 PM
forreal
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p.3 #10 · Man... what happened?


Well, believe what you want, but if it is a good place to hang for folks that already know what they are doing (which are the folks that you need for a good foundation), then you'll see the support. This forum has "steadily" been going downhill for a while. I say cause and effect, you say something else. But it is what it is and good folks are abandoning ship and not being replaced.


Jan 31, 2013 at 11:12 PM
 



Access
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p.3 #11 · Man... what happened?


forreal wrote:
Well, believe what you want, but if it is a good place to hang for folks that already know what they are doing (which are the folks that you need for a good foundation), then you'll see the support. This forum has "steadily" been going downhill for a while. I say cause and effect, you say something else. But it is what it is and good folks are abandoning ship and not being replaced.

But what exactly, in specific terms, is that cause? To me, it's just a problem inherent with any forum. It's simply inevitable; decisions must be made, and _any_ decision hurts the site. I doesn't mean the decision(s) were wrong or the administrator was a bad one. I've seen it happen on some many different forums even when I thought it was the best decision the administrator could make.



Feb 01, 2013 at 12:33 AM
Ernie Aubert
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p.3 #12 · Man... what happened?


But Steady, I recognize that I'm not competent to pronounce an image "outstanding". I've posted enough that I thought were pretty good, and had the general response be unfavorable, to realize that I'm floundering in the shallows. As I say, if anyone would happen to want to know anything specific about anything I were to post, I'd be quite ready to answer.


Feb 01, 2013 at 01:11 AM
bbourizk
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p.3 #13 · Man... what happened?


Steady Hand wrote:
For example, recently a FM member posted some exemplary photos of animal portraits taken at a zoo. They are nice to see. But, there is nothing mentioned on HOW the photos were made to look so good. Nothing was given as TIPS or SUGGESTIONS on how to do this type of photography, or how to overcome challenges posed by the conditions or setting/scene/light/subject. I think that kind of INFORMATIVE CONTENT would make a difference and would keep people visiting this site to LEARN HOW to make better photos.


That would be me Steady and couldn't agree with you more...when I first stared out it was great to see Lighting diagrams and setups (I have screen shot many and still love seeing how other light their shots). It was great to learn how a shot was done and then try to use that technique when out shooting.

Sometimes one gets lost in the moment and forgets to take a set of lights etc. i think I will try to make more of an effort in future if it helps others, even though it's probably not the most technical or correct but if it works then why not.



Feb 01, 2013 at 04:43 AM
Fosdinovo
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p.3 #14 · Man... what happened?


bbourizk wrote:
That would be me Steady and couldn't agree with you more...when I first stared out it was great to see Lighting diagrams and setups (I have screen shot many and still love seeing how other light their shots). It was great to learn how a shot was done and then try to use that technique when out shooting.

Sometimes one gets lost in the moment and forgets to take a set of lights etc. i think I will try to make more of an effort in future if it helps others, even though it's probably not the most technical or correct
...Show more

Thanks to Ron for starting this thread.

I have also noticed that activity in the photo forums has really slowed down during the last year. Many of you have given good ideas to what may have caused this phenomenon.
Very often the threads that consist of some personal attack or plain rude words to another person get the biggest amount of views and replies. Thatīs really sad, but itīs the same thing in all kinds of forums in the internet.

By the way, Steady Hand suggested giving some information about the photos and lighting etc. Well, just before I read this thread I posted one picture (20 hours ago) to this forum with some background information about the picture idea and some details about the lighting. The thread is named "Snow Queen and Kai".
And what I have got so far: almost 400 views but only one reply, which came from Steady. Maybe nobody will reply to this post either (except maybe Steady Hand)

Teemu Salminen

http://fototeemun.galleria.fi/kuvat/Models/




Feb 01, 2013 at 01:21 PM
Steady Hand
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p.3 #15 · Man... what happened?


bbourizk wrote:
That would be me Steady and couldn't agree with you more...when I first stared out it was great to see Lighting diagrams and setups (I have screen shot many and still love seeing how other light their shots). It was great to learn how a shot was done and then try to use that technique when out shooting.

Sometimes one gets lost in the moment and forgets to take a set of lights etc. i think I will try to make more of an effort in future if it helps others, even though it's probably not the most technical or correct
...Show more

Thanks for adding your POV here in this discussion.

Everything that follows is written in a truly friendly tone of voice.

While I am encouraging others to post more "informative" posts (more than just a photo), I don't want anyone to think I think flash diagrams and such are very important or required (e.g. I don't use flash at all). While those are interesting to see (as they rarely appear here) I think simple comments, tips, and narrative about the photo is just as valuable, and to me at least, much more interesting.

When I see a photo of a subject I have not attempted yet, or a photo that obviously took some effort or special planning to make or special techniques, or special equipment.....I am naturally curious about "how it was made."

For example, you shot some tigers that are behind a wire or cage in a zoo environment. Some photographers who have never tried that may NOT know that when shooting through a fence the fence can be made to disappear (Out of Focus) so that the fence is not obtrusive in the image. Your photos show that, and describing HOW to make that happen is a good tip that could encourage others to use similar technique to shoot a photo THEY may enjoy too, when they go to the zoo next.

So, I encourage anyone to post what THEY considered important in making THEIR photos look as they do. Sharing that may mean something to someone who views the photos and asks themselves: "How can I make a picture like that?"

I hope this helps others understand my POV, and that is simply that ANYONE can add something of interest to this forum, whether it be comments, questions on technique, tips on technique, or just a narrative of HOW they faced a photographic challenge and then what they did to make the picture etc.





Feb 01, 2013 at 02:44 PM
Steady Hand
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p.3 #16 · Man... what happened?


Fosdinovo wrote:
Thanks to Ron for starting this thread.

I have also noticed that activity in the photo forums has really slowed down during the last year. Many of you have given good ideas to what may have caused this phenomenon.
Very often the threads that consist of some personal attack or plain rude words to another person get the biggest amount of views and replies. Thatīs really sad, but itīs the same thing in all kinds of forums in the internet.

By the way, Steady Hand suggested giving some information about the photos and lighting etc. Well, just before I read this thread
...Show more
Teemu, your photo was very nicely made, and deserved many comments. Thanks for posting in this forum!




Feb 01, 2013 at 02:47 PM
NYstyles
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p.3 #17 · Man... what happened?


Sure, I finally join and its died!


Ive been here a few days and can tell who the pissy trolls are already.



Feb 01, 2013 at 02:55 PM
rick2906
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p.3 #18 · Man... what happened?



I just start in photography and I really like this website!! Lots of pro in here and I am shy to post any of my pictures I like!! I know they are far from perfect and I am scare I would be laught at!!!



Feb 01, 2013 at 02:56 PM
Steady Hand
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p.3 #19 · Man... what happened?


NYstyles wrote:
Sure, I finally join and its died!

Ive been here a few days and can tell who the pissy trolls are already.




Stick around, you might enjoy it and...find a few more trolls to add to your collection too.

Seriously, good to see a NEW member here!



Feb 01, 2013 at 02:58 PM
Steady Hand
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p.3 #20 · Man... what happened?


rick2906 wrote:
I just start in photography and I really like this website!! Lots of pro in here and I am shy to post any of my pictures I like!! I know they are far from perfect and I am scare I would be laught at!!!


Good to see a new member posting (even comments in a discussion like this). Welcome!

Many newbies (to photography or a forum) are shy about posting. But they are not alone. There are many other photographers who post comments or criticism here, but rarely post or never post photos here. I am one example. I posted 100 photos in a series here a couple of years ago. But since then have focused my time on posting comments (when I have the free time which is little now). Still, you can see my work via links in my profile if you are interested. And I will probably post more photos in the future when I have the time. In short, do what you can when you can.

My Suggestion: Try it.

Another Suggestion: When you post, tell us something about what you are trying to show in the photo, and if you have technical questions, clearly state you want some help or advice.

I wrote a bunch of tips on having a better experience in a photography forum like this and will send you (and any other lurkers) a link to those tips via a private message. I encourage you to read those tips and then post what you like (photos or comments).



Edited on Feb 01, 2013 at 03:04 PM · View previous versions



Feb 01, 2013 at 03:01 PM
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