Poor selection for wedding photog.

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3iron
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p.2 #1 · Poor selection for wedding photog.

Boy I put my foot in it this time.
Thanks for sharing; I have suggestions from staying out and enjoying the wedding, to throwing in more $$ for a better photog to equipment suggetions.
I did talk to son and daughter in law about a better photog and helping with costs. So far no go there. That of course, tells me to back off a bit and try to help where possible. The fact they asked me to help with the rehersal and reception, long before the photog discussion, makes me feel good of course.
For now, I will concentrate on the areas I have been asked to help with as a good father should.
Thanks to you for the thoughts on how to shoot. I know I have the equipment, but that does not make me a wedding shooter.
I have shot with 2 flashes before and liked the results so I'm thinking to set up some test shots and see what comes out.
Any suggestions you might have would be warmly received.
Thanks and best wishes.
PS; Someone asked about lenses and the ones I have that would probably work pretty well are the 16-35L and 24-70. I also have a 50 1.4 and a 70-200 2.8. I'm thinking the first 2 should be my best choices.

Jan 22, 2013 at 11:02 PM

tobicus
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p.2 #2 · Poor selection for wedding photog.

They don't know better; that's why they think it's a good idea to have a parent shooting. You might feel you're doing them a favor, but I honestly think you're doing yourself a disservice to take yourself out of the wedding by assisting. Everyone on this thread is saying the same thing, and it's not because any of us are being paid to shoot the wedding.

Jan 22, 2013 at 11:52 PM

D. Diggler
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p.2 #3 · Poor selection for wedding photog.

tobicus wrote:

They don't know better; that's why they think it's a good idea to have a parent shooting. You might feel you're doing them a favor, but I honestly think you're doing yourself a disservice to take yourself out of the wedding by assisting.

+1

Jan 22, 2013 at 11:59 PM

Ziffl3
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p.2 #4 · Poor selection for wedding photog.

tobicus wrote:
They don't know better; that's why they think it's a good idea to have a parent shooting. You might feel you're doing them a favor, but I honestly think you're doing yourself a disservice to take yourself out of the wedding by assisting. Everyone on this thread is saying the same thing, and it's not because any of us are being paid to shoot the wedding.

+2......

Jan 23, 2013 at 12:18 AM

scottam10
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p.2 #5 · Poor selection for wedding photog.

As others have said, if you're using a camera all day, you're taking yourself out of the wedding photos. Nothing spoils a shot of the father of the groom like having a camera blocking your face, so the photog will compose pics so you're out of shot.

Take a camera if you like (minimal gear, one camera and one lens), but keep it in the bag most of the time and just snap a few candids during quiet moments, not during the ceremony or any other important part of the day. Definitely no complicated off camera lighting setups.

The rehearsal's a different story of course - go nuts

Jan 23, 2013 at 12:31 AM

Draper
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p.2 #6 · Poor selection for wedding photog.

I can't believe this is even a topic for discussion.....

Jan 23, 2013 at 12:41 AM

Nikon_14
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p.2 #7 · Poor selection for wedding photog.

Here's another classic image...

http://neilvn.com/tangents/be-the-wedding-guest-not-the-photographer/

Jan 23, 2013 at 02:36 AM

sboerup
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p.2 #8 · Poor selection for wedding photog.

3iron wrote:
I don't want to interfere with the "kids" and may have to keep mum on this issue. But at the same time, I wonder how I can grab some shots during the wedding without being to much of a problem.
Please be helpful if you can, it's a tuff situation for me.
Thanks and best wishes.

I see two potential outcomes in this situation.
1. You spend too much time trying to get better shots than their photographer and you miss out on enjoying an event you won't ever get to participate in again. Be the dad in the wedding, not the guy trying to save the day, even though your intentions are good.
2. You "interfere" with the kids and make a suggestion about changing photographers. You pay the difference for the photographer you think would be best. You get better pictures, so do the kids. Win win win? I think so.

Jan 23, 2013 at 02:42 AM

photomania21
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p.2 #9 · Poor selection for wedding photog.

Last November my son got married. I paid for the photographer and the couple wanted to get a deal where they got the images on a disc and I could do the album.
Though they asked my advice about the choice of photographer, ultimately they went with one I wasn't so keen on as they liked his personality. Fair game, that is important, but his photography wasn't up to my expectations, though well within theirs.
I decided not to interfere. If I was too critical, they wouldn't enjoy their photos so much.
On the day I was very well behaved and left my camera in the car for most of the time. I did as most people on here have suggested and I enjoyed the day. I was the mum of the groom, not a wedding photographer. I put my faith in the paid photographer and tried to leave well alone....mistake.
We got the photos back and I was so disappointed. I'd assumed wrongly that there were certain photos that the photographer wouldn't need to be asked to take. I haven't any individual photos of my son. None of him with his father, none with his best man or ushers and I could go on. Making a balanced album has been a nightmare.
I think that wedding photographers who are also parents are in a difficult position. You turn up to your "childs" wedding with a camera and everyone thinks "can't they just leave it behind for once?". Yet if we weren't wedding photographers and just had a little point and shoot, no one would think twice about us taking lots of photos. The only difference is the size of the camera. I didn't want to lug my 5d mk 2 around, so I didn't get to take many pictures at all. I did the right thing and left it in the car...but for the period between the wedding and getting the professional photos I didn't have anything to look at. All the other guests with their point and shoots had loads.
I have another son getting married later in the year and we are going to make a comprehensive list for the photographer. We are not going to risk being in the same situation again. So there is more than one way of looking at this. I can truly understand the advice given for the parent to leave the photography to the professional, but I can understand too the other side. It is the couples wedding, they make the choices. We can advise and guide, but ulitimately the choice is theirs in the end, even if it isn't the one we would have made.
Being the mum of the groom who does wedding photography has been one of the hardest situations I have been in.

Jan 23, 2013 at 10:57 PM

That Photog
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p.2 #10 · Poor selection for wedding photog.

photomania21 wrote:I haven't any individual photos of my son. None of him with his father, none with his best man or ushers and I could go on.

I have another son getting married later in the year and we are going to make a comprehensive list for the photographer.

Don't take this the wrong way but this is why I tell all of my clients to make a list of the posed shots that you want and have a distant relative coordinate the groups of people. I don't know the bride and grooms family and cannot be responsible to make sure there is a picture of the groom with aunt Alfia. None with the Groom and father is a bit of a miss, but still if there wasn't a plan, we all know how family pictures get crazy.

And regarding your next wedding, that is the only list to which I will attempt to abide. Shot lists are politely accepted with a disclaimer that 1. you are trusting me to know what to shoot and 2. If I'm looking at a list, I'm missing the real shots.

Jan 24, 2013 at 02:22 PM

TTLKurtis
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p.2 #11 · Poor selection for wedding photog.

For what it's worth I don't think I have ever, I mean *ever* gotten a shot of the groom with his father alone. Specific stuff like that needs to be in a list if it's important to you. For me, I think it's more important to get the groups of people together and not waste 30 minutes doing individual shots with a bunch of people. If the family doesn't agree with that, no problem, but I always make sure this stuff is clear beforehand.

Jan 24, 2013 at 05:40 PM

dmacmillan
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p.2 #12 · Poor selection for wedding photog.

Nikon_14 wrote:
Here's another classic image...

http://neilvn.com/tangents/be-the-wedding-guest-not-the-photographer/
This is an excellent article by Neil.

I attended a wedding last year with a classy group of guests. I saw no cameras except for the very discreet professional photographers at the ceremony. There were a few, not many P&S cameras at the reception; no DSLR's. I did not take a camera. I just went and had a wonderful time.

I realize I'm not Clark Kent and it is not my job to swoop in if I feel the pro is not performing to my satisfaction.

Jan 24, 2013 at 06:08 PM

photomania21
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p.2 #13 · Poor selection for wedding photog.

Thanks Photog and TTLKurtis I've found your replies very interesting as together they show the need for very clear communication between the couple and the photographer prior to the event so that expectations are met. One of you thinking there should have been a photo of the groom with his father and the other hasn't ever done one. Two different photographers with two different approaches. I'm not saying either is wrong, just different, so it shows how important the pre event talks are with the couple. I made too many assumptions before my sons wedding and was disappointed because of it.

We had a similar experience when my stepdaughter got married in the Valley of Fire outside Vegas. There were only four of us there, the couple and my husband and myself. Very intimate and we had a photographer for a couple of hours who also didn't do any individual photos ot the groom. Lots of the bride, but none at all of the groom, the limo they used or the officiant that married them. I'm quoting now from photos the couple expected would be taken. We chalked that down to experience and fortunately I had done some on the return to Vegas.

I personally prefer to be trusted to know what to take at a wedding. I will make sure that I know all the main players and get a balanced range of photos of them all, not necessarily formally posed as during the family group shots, but something a bit more structured than them in the middle of chatting or dancing. They don't take long to do and couples/families like them. I'll automatically make sure I have a good one of any elderly family members / guests. Like most photographers I don't particularly enjoy the family group shots but I just get them done and keep them as short as possible. They are important to families and I understand that even more now. I get the others at convenient points through the day.

Giving our next photographer a long list covering the whole day wouldn't sit well with me and I don't think I could do it. It would almost seem an insult to their professional ability and cramp their style a bit. I think we'll keep the list to the group shots and just make sure that we explain what we'd like clearly at the talks beforehand.

It has been an interesting experience though being on the other side of the camera. The urge to take some photos is a strong one. It's what we do and if we can't do it a bit for our kids then it is a bit hard to sit back. I did the right thing though and enjoyed the day because of it. I did however learn something about how it feels to be on the "other side".

Jan 24, 2013 at 08:42 PM

TTLKurtis
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p.2 #14 · Poor selection for wedding photog.

photomania21, I certainly am not suggesting a comprehensive list of every single photo you want (looking at their previous complete-weddings should be a good reference point here), however when I am gathering information for a wedding I create a one-sheet with all the important information I need including timeline and all important people.

From that list of important people who will be in formal photos, we discuss groupings. My couples generally do not want to spend a minute more than is necessary taking pictures for pictures' sake, so we almost always opt for groupings such as:

Bride/Groom/MOG/FOG
Bride/Groom/MOG/FOG/MOB/FOB
Bride/Groom/MOB/FOB
Bride/Groom/MOB/FOB/Grandparents
and so on and so forth. Generally I'd say we do about 8-10 groupings total, and rarely do we do any individual photos with bride and father etc. at this point. They're just not the photos that are important to my clients, because generally we're capturing photos of them being in the moment rather than standing next to one another. To me that's more meaningful and my clients seem to agree with that, but it's totally a matter of preference so that's an area that does need to be very clear I think.

So yeah, to me that is very different than saying 'Bride smiling looking at mirror, holding hands with rings in focus and faces out of focus, bride looking back over shoulder while walking away' (a list I would hate to work from)

Jan 24, 2013 at 08:55 PM

D. Diggler
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p.2 #15 · Poor selection for wedding photog.

TTLKurtis wrote:

'Bride smiling looking at mirror, holding hands with rings in focus and faces out of focus, bride looking back over shoulder while walking away'

I had a bride send me a list like that. One of her requested shots was, "Immediate family members laughing and smiling as they talk together while enjoying the evening meal". Yeah, right.

Jan 25, 2013 at 01:00 AM

teebat
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p.2 #16 · Poor selection for wedding photog.

whtrbt7 wrote:
Okie dokie, so long story short, I was the brother of the bride and IN the wedding party. This made it very hard to photo during the wedding. Being father of the groom means that you'll need to be in a LOT of photos. So here's how I would do it. Bring your 1DX, your 2 600EXs, 2 shoot through umbrellas, a ST-E3 commander for the 600EXs, 2 lightweight light stands that you can move, a 35L, and an 85L. That's all you'll actually need in terms of gear. While I don't recommend you try and shoot bits of the wedding yourself since it will kinda drive you insane, if you're the last line of defense in getting some quality photos, I would just say that you should be in the action and shoot sporadically while also being a part of the wedding. The 2 shoot through umbrellas will provide soft light when it gets darker and you can use those for a couple shots with your kids so that they are decently lit. During reception, I suggest bouncing on camera flash or set up the light stands in a triangle pattern with your camera and have no umbrellas. Try to be discreet when shooting and most important of all is to enjoy the wedding. Also on a separate note, if you have too many drinks during the wedding, your photography skill does not go up with the number of drinks you have had.

Your being sarcastic right? You are not really telling the father of the groom to take all of this stuff?

Jan 25, 2013 at 01:15 AM

D. Diggler
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p.2 #17 · Poor selection for wedding photog.

teebat wrote:

whtrbt7 wrote:
Bring your 1DX, your 2 600EXs, 2 shoot through umbrellas, a ST-E3 commander for the 600EXs, 2 lightweight light stands that you can move, a 35L, and an 85L. That's all you'll actually need in terms of gear.

Your being sarcastic right? You are not really telling the father of the groom to take all of this stuff?

Let's HOPE he was being sarcastic.

Jan 25, 2013 at 02:01 AM

awad
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p.2 #18 · Poor selection for wedding photog.

TTLKurtis wrote:
For what it's worth I don't think I have ever, I mean *ever* gotten a shot of the groom with his father alone. Specific stuff like that needs to be in a list if it's important to you. For me, I think it's more important to get the groups of people together and not waste 30 minutes doing individual shots with a bunch of people. If the family doesn't agree with that, no problem, but I always make sure this stuff is clear beforehand.

i was the same way as you, until we'd had a groom who's father passed after the wedding and asked us if we got a photo of them together because it wasn't in the proofset.

nope.

we also had a couple ask us if we had a nice portrait we took of the bride's grandma at the wedding. she had passed a week after the wedding and this was before the couple had seen the proofs. luckily we had pulled the grandma aside and taken a photo of her. the couple was super grateful and it was used at the funeral.

so ever since then, i make sure i take photos of the parents alone and with the b/g as well as concentrate on the grandparents for a bit. takes a few extra minutes to do but the family will appreciate it in the upcoming years.

Jan 25, 2013 at 02:21 AM

MBMK
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p.2 #19 · Poor selection for wedding photog.

D. Diggler wrote:
TTLKurtis wrote:

'Bride smiling looking at mirror, holding hands with rings in focus and faces out of focus, bride looking back over shoulder while walking away'

I had a bride send me a list like that. One of her requested shots was, "Immediate family members laughing and smiling as they talk together while enjoying the evening meal". Yeah, right.

I got that crap. I told them, "oh you mean candid shots? of course we take that, but we can't tickle your guests

"

Oh and we tell them, we never take shots of people eating.

Jan 25, 2013 at 03:47 AM

D. Diggler
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p.2 #20 · Poor selection for wedding photog.

MBMK wrote:

D. Diggler wrote:
One of her requested shots was, "Immediate family members laughing and smiling as they talk together while enjoying the evening meal".

we tell them, we never take shots of people eating

I don't, either.

And, besides, when everyone else is eating is when I eat. I'm not going to be standing around with my lens trained on the parents' dinner table while they're eating, waiting for them all to break out in laughter. What if they don't! While I skip my meal?!?

Jan 25, 2013 at 03:56 AM

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