Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Photo Critique | Join Upload & Sell

  

Archive 2013 · Need a fresh set of Eyes
  
 
Oregon Gal
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #1 · Need a fresh set of Eyes


I have tried this image in color, B/W and now finally toned. I feel this toned version suits the image but ask for suggestions on improvement. I have included the original for additional input or re-works. Thanks in advance, Barbara












Jan 17, 2013 at 09:32 PM
Bob Jarman
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #2 · Need a fresh set of Eyes


Hi Barbara,

Don't know whether this adds any interest or not....tried to get something in concert with ROTs.

or, later,

Regards,

Bob









playing with some textures I found...




Jan 18, 2013 at 01:42 AM
Oregon Gal
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #3 · Need a fresh set of Eyes


Actually I like both your re-works but I don't see the texture Looking at mine it looks blah, guess I will re-work once again Okay added another version.







Jan 18, 2013 at 06:09 AM
Mister Bean
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · Need a fresh set of Eyes


As a personal preference, I don't care for the toned look.

Here are a couple versions.














Jan 18, 2013 at 07:07 AM
RustyBug
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #5 · Need a fresh set of Eyes


Barbara, nice find at the scene. I might have liked to have seen some separation between the top of the wheels and the horizon and maybe a different orientation between the fence post and the wagon, but not the end of the world either way.

Nice reworks Bob ... the b&w has a clean, clear look to it. Sets up the toned version nicely (assuming the mono came first). What approach to pp did you take? Also, nice job on the crop.




Jan 18, 2013 at 10:36 AM
Bob Jarman
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #6 · Need a fresh set of Eyes


RustyBug wrote:
Barbara, nice find at the scene. I might have liked to have seen some separation between the top of the wheels and the horizon and maybe a different orientation between the fence post and the wagon, but not the end of the world either way.

Nice reworks Bob ... the b&w has a clean, clear look to it. Sets up the toned version nicely (assuming the mono came first). What approach to pp did you take? Also, nice job on the crop.



Barbara,

Texture might be a misnomer. This particular set came from Adobe and is subtle in that the larger impact, to me anyway, is selective colorization via mask/brush, not laying down a "pattern". They are similar to what I've used previously but lack the heavy "gunge/rust" mottled look.

Looking now, the result is most apparent in the central area - the brighter, tan/khaki, area. Texture layer (used file-place, opacity, blend multiply iirc) has color.

Kent - yes, all play done over the BW flattened image.

To me, the image's Achilles heel is the lower left-hand area - the tall clumps of grasses, metal posts, and down-trodden path outside the fence detract. Hence the crop with the position of the post determined by a RoT cropping grid - not rigidly though. I wanted to keep the rail's origin at the LRH corner as originally framed.

Lastly, having posted a somewhat similar image earlier this fall, which I think was best received as "boring", I appreciate the difficulty in conveying the sense of expansiveness - being there - into a 2D space. Coming from the east-coast and now south-east, I am always in awe of my feeling of 'freedom' from the uncluttered vistas when we visit Oregon. And now I understand why my wife's Kansas relatives always felt claustrophobic while visiting Georgia.

Apologize for the diversion but thought it might help explain how I perceive the image.

Regards,

Bob.



Jan 18, 2013 at 12:53 PM
Oregon Gal
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #7 · Need a fresh set of Eyes


Thanks guys for the observations and suggestions. While I believe there is a composition to be made at the location, this is not it. It's located on the side of a hwy., minimal parking, ditches, so can't take to much time composition wise.

Edited on Jan 18, 2013 at 03:24 PM · View previous versions



Jan 18, 2013 at 03:08 PM
Bob Jarman
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #8 · Need a fresh set of Eyes


No problem - be safe!

Bob



Jan 18, 2013 at 03:14 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



Camperjim
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #9 · Need a fresh set of Eyes


I do think a slightly higher viewpoint would have helped.

I usually do not care for B&W or septa toned presentations, but I really like your first image. I also like the dodging and hightone look. I think it gives a special mood and feel that are not present in any of the other versions.



Jan 18, 2013 at 03:54 PM
RustyBug
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #10 · Need a fresh set of Eyes


Camperjim wrote:
I do think a slightly higher viewpoint would have helped.


+1 ... to achieve the tonal space above the wheels



Jan 18, 2013 at 04:19 PM
cgardner
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · Need a fresh set of Eyes


The focal point of the old equipment and the dried grass have the same warm tones but the color contrast of the blue sky pulls the eye off the focal point. That's the reason I find the sepia version works better for me.

As for the overall composition? The way vision works on physiological / psychological level in the eye and brain is that the eye jump around in saccades on eye catching contrasting content in the frame: jump to focal point 1, dwell, process, jump to focal point 2, dwell, process....

In a sepia version without the distraction of the sky if the fence wasn't in the photo at all the contrast of the darker equipment on the lighter grass would pull the eye to it as the focal point first and dwell on it. That's what happened when I first looked at it. I really didn't notice the post and fence much until I'd processed that first focal point and recognized it as old farm equipment. What happened next when my eye went looking for something else of interest? It followed the fence AWAY from the focal point to nothing interesting and out the left edge of the photo.

What I came to understand when I realized how the brain moves the eyes around a photo (from reading studies in the Journal of Vision and other psychology experiments) to find the contrasting "stuff" is that more often than not leading lines in a photo are arrows pointing where to go next AFTER tonal contrast with the background pulls the eye initially to the area that contrast in tone with the background, detail that contrasts with the background, a color difference, etc. The common denominator is contrast with the background in various becomes the primary PERCEPTUAL focal point the eye gets pulled to first.

What makes a photo "work" or not is how the MESSAGE focal point is located relative to that PERCEPTUAL focal point that keeps pulling the eye back to it with contrast. If the message focal point is also what contrasts the most (such as the face of portrait) all "lines" will lead away from it in terms of how the eye moves. In a portrait the face is noticed first them the eye follows the arm down to the hands (if visible) to see what the next most interesting focal point, the hands are doing. Then lacking anything more interesting the eye will get pulled back to the face because its more interesting and the stonger perceptual focal point.

Here the equipment is the both the message focal point and a strong perceptual one. To the extent there's an interesting secondary one it's the farm in the background. The fence? It's a distraction... For that reason I think Bob's crop works better than the original.

Also thought of using the higher POV. I always have an eye out for higher vantage points that will better isolate my focal point by eliminating background distractions. Standing on the cross bar of the fence with a wider lens would have also eliminated the distraction of the fence



Jan 18, 2013 at 08:25 PM
Oregon Gal
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #12 · Need a fresh set of Eyes


Chuck, you have put to words my frustrations with this image in an easy to understand manner. I still believe that there is a composition here but it's going to take some thought as to how to capture it well. Composition skills are always a work in progress, much to learn so little time

Problem #1:
The mover for a wheel line is placed to close to the fence. A wide angle might work and I will try some different compositions.

Problem #2:
I agree needed to get a higher angle and I was in the truck so I could have climbed in the back of it. I had a few other shots but from a slightly lower angle and thus the mover lines up the the hills which doesn't work.

Thanks Jim for your comments. I am going to re-work the image based on suggestions, but realize while it's an enjoyable scene to me, it isn't gonna win any awards



Jan 18, 2013 at 08:57 PM
cgardner
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · Need a fresh set of Eyes


My compositions technique evolved from critiquing the photos of others. I'd use the cropping tool to crop tight on just the focal point then slowly expand the frrame and add context. I'd watch what entered the edges. If I noticed something pull attention off the focal point it was a distraction which if not cropped out neeed to be toned down.

While expanding the frame to include more content I'll move the focal point to the four "thirds" nodes and up /down in the middle like trying a wallet in all four pocket and a belt pouch to feel what is most comfortable.

I started using that same "inside-out" cropping when shooting and found my composition improved because I put more thought into it and it was easier to spot distractions I'd miss in the past until editing due to "tunnel vision" on the focal point in the middle of the viewfinder.

"Tunnel vision" is another physiological / perceptual thing. The color cones of the eye are in the center 2 degrees of the eyes 140 degree FOV so the brain only focuses on a arc twice the width of your thumb at arms length. The eyes see the other 138 degrees but the brain tunes it out. That's why we miss noticiing distractions on the edges when shooting. The inside-out technique makes them more obvious as the enter the edges.

You don't literally need to crop in camera that way, just focus first on focal point then scan outward from it with the eyes looking for things that contrast more with the background vs. starting wide and cropping in,

As for this image there is a concept call "unifying centers of interest" than would work here. By changing POV you can make two focal points that are physically separated appear closer with parallax by picking the spot where one is seen directly in front or behind the primary focal point. That way the viewer sees main focal point and and context at the same time. Instead of composing the shot with the focal point at third and the second focal point distracting the "unified" focal points lend themselves to a more static centered composition and square crop.

Using a square crop was actually one of my initial thoughts to isolate the farm gear, but I couldn't see any good way to do it as shot. But if you are able to move camera position so the farm in back is seen directly behind or slightly to the right of it and get the fence out of the frame I think it might work well centered in a squared crop. That will create a static vibe that matches the idea that the gear is abandoned and has been sitting there for a long time.



Jan 18, 2013 at 11:31 PM
cgardner
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · Need a fresh set of Eyes


One addition observation I got when looking at the thumbnail on the top of the forum. I didn't notice it as much in the larger version but in the thumbnail where you can't really see what the content is that post you composed "dead" center in the frame divides it in half with the right darker and filled details and the left lighter and appearing empty. Presented with a gradient like that the brain will usually send the eyes towards the highlights which here is the less interesting side.


Jan 19, 2013 at 01:23 PM
cgardner
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · Need a fresh set of Eyes


One addition observation I got when looking at the thumbnail on the top of the forum. I didn't notice it as much in the larger version but in the thumbnail where you can't really see what the content is that post you composed "dead" center in the frame divides it in half with the right darker and filled details and the left lighter and appearing empty. Presented with a gradient like that the brain will usually send the eyes towards the highlights which here is the less interesting side.


Jan 19, 2013 at 02:06 PM





FM Forums | Photo Critique | Join Upload & Sell

    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Retrive password