Worth upgrading from Canon 1D Mark 2N to 1D Mark IV?

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pony girl
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p.1 #1 · Worth upgrading from Canon 1D Mark 2N to 1D Mark IV?

With the prices dropping on the Canon 1D Mark IV's, I'm tempted to upgrade from my 1D Mark IIN. I shoot horse shows, sometimes indoors, often in challenging (dusty, hot, maybe wet) conditions and use a flash indoors and at night. My current camera is reliable, but becoming older, and "only" has 8 megapix. Do you think the image quality or focusing speeds are noticeably better in the IV, enough to justify the upgrade? I'm aware of the bigger files produced by the IV and its higher ISO rating.

Jan 10, 2013 at 04:12 PM

Russ Isabella
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p.1 #2 · Worth upgrading from Canon 1D Mark 2N to 1D Mark IV?

I feel confident suggesting that once you use a 1DIV, you will not feel the same about your 1DIIN. I agree that the IIN is a very capable camera that holds its own admirably in comparison to the newer bodies, but the Mark IV makes the IIN look and feel just as 'old' as it is. The larger LCD alone is worth the entrance fee. So yes, it is a worthwhile upgrade. Now, my best advice is that you do not, while shopping for a Mark IV, pick up a 1Dx. Somehow and much to my frustration, it casts a shadow on Mark IV similar to that cast on the IIN by the Mark IV.

Jan 10, 2013 at 04:25 PM

artsupreme
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p.1 #3 · Worth upgrading from Canon 1D Mark 2N to 1D Mark IV?

I would not buy a MKIV unless you really need the extra pixels. Instead, just get a 1DmkIII for close to 1K. The MkIII is the best value by far, and you'll have almost 2K for extra glass or something else. To me, the MkIV is just a slightly improved MkIII with extra pixels. People talk about bells/whistles/LCD's but do you really stare at your LCD all day when shooting sports? I don't, I set my camera up and shoot with it....perhaps the LCD's are good for landscape/live view.

The 1DmkIII files are awesome, and for me the only thing I'm getting with a MkIV is more pixels and better ultra high ISO, but the end result in good to decent light between the mkIII and mkIV is the same. Get the MkIII, it's a great value at just over 1K.

Jan 10, 2013 at 06:11 PM

jcolwell
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p.1 #4 · Worth upgrading from Canon 1D Mark 2N to 1D Mark IV?

Russ Isabella wrote:
I feel confident suggesting that once you use a 1DIV, you will not feel the same about your 1DIIN. I agree that the IIN is a very capable camera that holds its own admirably in comparison to the newer bodies, but the Mark IV makes the IIN look and feel just as 'old' as it is....

I agree.

Russ Isabella wrote:
... do not, while shopping for a Mark IV, pick up a 1Dx. Somehow and much to my frustration, it casts a shadow on Mark IV similar to that cast on the IIN by the Mark IV.

Still agree.

Jan 10, 2013 at 06:33 PM

Russ Isabella
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p.1 #5 · Worth upgrading from Canon 1D Mark 2N to 1D Mark IV?

I've used every 1-series body except the 1DIII, so I can't comment on it's potential as an upgrade to the IIN and its value relative to the 1DIV. But I cannot agree with the suggestion that the LCD is insignificant. There are many good reasons to use the LCD while shooting sports, and the bigger screen is a major improvement.

Jan 10, 2013 at 06:35 PM

jcolwell
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p.1 #6 · Worth upgrading from Canon 1D Mark 2N to 1D Mark IV?

I've owned 1DII (x2), 1DIII, and 1DsIII. Now I own a 1DIV and 1DX. Chances are good that it'll be a pair of 1DX within a year, even though I photograph BIF and wildlife (amongst many other things)...

Jan 10, 2013 at 06:38 PM

galenapass
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p.1 #7 · Worth upgrading from Canon 1D Mark 2N to 1D Mark IV?

artsupreme wrote:
I would not buy a MKIV unless you really need the extra pixels. Instead, just get a 1DmkIII for close to 1K. The MkIII is the best value by far, and you'll have almost 2K for extra glass or something else. To me, the MkIV is just a slightly improved MkIII with extra pixels. People talk about bells/whistles/LCD's but do you really stare at your LCD all day when shooting sports? I don't, I set my camera up and shoot with it....perhaps the LCD's are good for landscape/live view.

The 1DmkIII files are awesome, and for me the only thing I'm getting with a MkIV is more pixels and better ultra high ISO, but the end result in good to decent light between the mkIII and mkIV is the same. Get the MkIII, it's a great value at just over 1K.

Sound advice. For wildlife photography many times I cannot get closer. There are 3 options: (1) bigger lens, (2) add a TC to an existing lens, or (3) shoot with a camera that allows cropping (e.g., 1DMIV). Bird photographers are often focal length limited. However, the type of photography that you describe does not seem to be focal length limited. Thus, I would ask do you really need a 1DMIV? A 1DMIII coupled with a nice piece of glass would be MUCH better than spending more money on a body only - IMO.

Jan 10, 2013 at 06:48 PM

oldrattler
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p.1 #8 · Worth upgrading from Canon 1D Mark 2N to 1D Mark IV?

jcolwell wrote:
Russ Isabella wrote:
I feel confident suggesting that once you use a 1DIV, you will not feel the same about your 1DIIN. I agree that the IIN is a very capable camera that holds its own admirably in comparison to the newer bodies, but the Mark IV makes the IIN look and feel just as 'old' as it is....

I agree.

Russ Isabella wrote:
... do not, while shopping for a Mark IV, pick up a 1Dx. Somehow and much to my frustration, it casts a shadow on Mark IV similar to that cast on the IIN by the Mark IV.

Still agree.

Having rented both camera's and having owned several 1DIIn's I am in total agreement with the above statements.

Jan 10, 2013 at 06:51 PM

schlotz
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p.1 #9 · Worth upgrading from Canon 1D Mark 2N to 1D Mark IV?

Shot the Mk II for a number years and made the move to the IV when it came out. There is a significant difference and especially in ISO clarity at the high end. Mk IV ISO 6400 can be quite usable and under the right conditions I've even got 12800 to be acceptable when in a pinch for an action shot. Mostly used on the soccer fields and under night conditions on high school lit fields, the IV many times made the difference in getting a shot vs not. The II became my backup with the 70-200 for closer up action and stayed that way until the X came on the scene.

As Russ said, DO NOT look at the 1D-X if you are wanting to upgrade to a Mk IV. The difference in about every category is truly wonderful. Needless to say I sold the Mk II, and the IV is now sporting the 70-200.

With the conditions you describe, the ability the handle higher ISO that can provide good results should be a minimal requirement and the IV will beat any 1D series before it without a question.

Best Regards,
Matt

Jan 10, 2013 at 06:54 PM

Snopchenko
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p.1 #10 · Worth upgrading from Canon 1D Mark 2N to 1D Mark IV?

I think the OP's upgrade path makes total sense, skipping one generation and going straight for what is (almost) current. If I had the money, I would've done it myself, as the max. usable ISO of 800 (or thereabouts) is starting to irk me since most of my shooting seems to be done in the dark. It's either the radical high ISO upgrade of 1D Mark IV or switching to ultra fast primes for me, but in the latter case I'll have to live with much shallower DOF and probably also with lenses that are not as sharp wide open as the 2.8 zooms AND are more expensive in total (if I go for a 24/85 f/1.4 set alone) than the 1D IV.

Jan 10, 2013 at 07:41 PM

Gunzorro
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p.1 #11 · Worth upgrading from Canon 1D Mark 2N to 1D Mark IV?

pony girl -- I am sure you would see a tremendous improvement in your images and your shooting options by upgrading from the 1D2N.

I've not shot with the 1DIV, but I respect the opinions of people like Jim C above, who have more experience than me. I've owned two 1D2's and still have one -- I like it very much, for the same reasons as you. But recently I bought a 1DIII and despite being "only" 2MP greater, there are more assets besides the larger screen for me. IQ is better -- just like a slightly cropped 5D, if you are familiar with that IQ. And it has better speed and endurance features, plus better battery.

So I know the 1DIV would be even better. And don't even think about the 1DX!

The cool thing about the 1DIII is that you would be out very little money to upgrade -- just over $1000 probably (maybe under!). But if you want to spend just over $3k, you can get a nice used 1DIV and get better IQ and ISO without playing around.

Have fun!

Jan 10, 2013 at 09:57 PM

convergent
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p.1 #12 · Worth upgrading from Canon 1D Mark 2N to 1D Mark IV?

A lot of good choices for you is the cool thing. I progressed through the 1D series and when I with from 1D2N to 1D3, I was very happy... it was greatly improved in every possible way. I stuck with that body until a few months ago. So going to a 1D3 for $1200-1300 would be a great improvement for you with little cost. I have not owned a 1D4. When I parted with my 1D3, I was on the fence between the 5D3 and 1D4 and settled on the 5D3... couldn't be happier with it.

You really have three price ranges of upgrade that are all good choices... the first two ranges offer two choices that are slightly different and fairly equal net when taking the pros and cons. I would consider all the choices before finalizing. As I said, you have a lot of choices that are all good.

1D3 or 7D (around a grand)

1D4 or 5D3 (around 3 grand)

1DX (around 6 grand)

Jan 10, 2013 at 10:04 PM

Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #13 · Worth upgrading from Canon 1D Mark 2N to 1D Mark IV?

pony girl wrote:
With the prices dropping on the Canon 1D Mark IV's, I'm tempted to upgrade from my 1D Mark IIN. I shoot horse shows, sometimes indoors, often in challenging (dusty, hot, maybe wet) conditions and use a flash indoors and at night. My current camera is reliable, but becoming older, and "only" has 8 megapix. Do you think the image quality or focusing speeds are noticeably better in the IV, enough to justify the upgrade? I'm aware of the bigger files produced by the IV and its higher ISO rating.

It's even worth upgrading to the 1D III. It's a better camera in almost every way and is much cleaner above ISO 800. 1D IV takes that and improves on it further. For the price that 1D III's are going for now they are a bargain, but if you can swing the 1D IV it's even better.

Jan 10, 2013 at 10:08 PM

galenapass
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p.1 #14 · Worth upgrading from Canon 1D Mark 2N to 1D Mark IV?

When I was in the market for a 1DIII or 1DIV, I rented one of each from Lensrentals.com and compared the files extensively. What I found was that despite the difference in MP, the files were very similar - if I up-rezzed the 1DIII files to the same size as the 1DIV. Was the 1DIV better? Yes, it was, but not by as much as you might think. Noise was also slightly in favor of the 1DIV. In the end I opted, therefore, to save quite a bit of money and buy the 1DIII for what I thought was only marginally less IQ. Every time I get the itch to upgrade to the IDIV, I look back at those files.

The 1DIII is a steal at current prices, IMO.

Jan 11, 2013 at 12:06 AM

Russ Isabella
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p.1 #15 · Worth upgrading from Canon 1D Mark 2N to 1D Mark IV?

I agree that the 1DIII is a great bargain right now, and the fact IQ differences may only be marginal certainly is relevant. But what often is lost in such considerations is the question of whether a particular camera increases your likelihood of getting the shot, for there's no point to talking about IQ until you have a sharply focused image to consider. Where action photography is at play, there may be benefits to the 1DIV over the 1DIII that precede IQ comparisons. This is not easily quantifiable and may not be important enough to opt for the 1DIV over the 1DIII, but it's worth recognizing as a factor.

Jan 11, 2013 at 12:23 AM

Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #16 · Worth upgrading from Canon 1D Mark 2N to 1D Mark IV?

galenapass wrote:
When I was in the market for a 1DIII or 1DIV, I rented one of each from Lensrentals.com and compared the files extensively. What I found was that despite the difference in MP, the files were very similar - if I up-rezzed the 1DIII files to the same size as the 1DIV. Was the 1DIV better? Yes, it was, but not by as much as you might think. Noise was also slightly in favor of the 1DIV. In the end I opted, therefore, to save quite a bit of money and buy the 1DIII for what I thought was only marginally less IQ. Every time I get the itch to upgrade to the IDIV, I look back at those files.

The 1DIII is a steal at current prices, IMO.

I initially thought the 1D IV was only a bit cleaner than the 1D III, but after extensive use and seeing the results at ISO 3200-6400+, I think the 1D IV is noticeably better and this is at the pixel level. If you have to crop fairly hard, the 1D IV pulls further ahead.

Having said that, below ISO 1600 you'd be hard pressed to notice much of an IQ difference. 1D III is really good for 10MP and I would recommend it to anyone. I still miss my 1D III, and only sold it due to the favourable price of the 1D IV through work.

Jan 11, 2013 at 01:34 AM

Fast Shadow
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p.1 #17 · Worth upgrading from Canon 1D Mark 2N to 1D Mark IV?

As a former 1D2N owner and part time 1D4 user - Yes, it's worth it. The 1D4's high ISO performance is so far beyond the 1D2N. Focus tracking is also much better, though the 1D2N is nothing to sneeze at either. The Li-Ion batteries of the 1D4 are much nicer to deal with than the nicad batteries of the 1D2N. It's just a better camera all around.

Jan 11, 2013 at 01:37 AM

Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #18 · Worth upgrading from Canon 1D Mark 2N to 1D Mark IV?

I own the 1D3, 1D4, 1Ds3 & 1DX. Before that also the 1D2 & 1D2N.

I agree that the 1D3 is the best bargain today. But even then I would recommend the 1D4 if you can afford it. For shooting horse shows in low light it will be better. More resolution, better high ISO, better live view (if needing that for other things).
Two things that not have been mentioned here and are a big improvement for sport (horse shows) with the 1D4 compared to the 1D3 is:
1. 45 user-selectable AF points compared to the 19 in the 1D3
2. The 1D4 writes much faster to the CF cards than the 1D3. So you don't have to stand and look at the red light for 30 seconds

Jan 11, 2013 at 03:38 AM

OntheRez
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p.1 #19 · Worth upgrading from Canon 1D Mark 2N to 1D Mark IV?

The 1DIIn remains my all time favorite Canon . . . But time and technology move on. Facing the inability to shot HS sports in truly poor light, I first jumped to a 7D that just didn't work for me. I moved quickly to a 1DIII which was quite adequate, but still needed higher ISO. I shoot regularly at a football field that even at ISO 25600, f/2.8, Tv 1/500, I'm still a stop even a stop and a half too dark The 1DIII is certainly cheaper, but if you shoot action at night you need all the camera you can get and frankly in my experience the 1DIV works at higher ISO, acquires focus better, and writes to the media noticeably faster. It truly is a great camera. Having said that, if I had the capital I'd go straight to the 1Dx because it is an entire next generation in the evolution of the 1D series.

Robert

Jan 11, 2013 at 04:29 AM

dehowie
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p.1 #20 · Worth upgrading from Canon 1D Mark 2N to 1D Mark IV?

As a former Mk2N,Mk3 and Mk4 owner what Lars stated is spot on.
Bypass the Mk3 the 4 is a great camera..

Jan 11, 2013 at 04:35 AM

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