My 15 yr. old son is taking a photography class and is using my old Minolta film camera. I shoot with a Canon T4i and have had various Canon crop cameras over the years but I never had a full frame digital. He understands the difference of the field of view between his film Minolta and my crop and wants to get a digital camera when his class ends.
He asked me which would be better, a used 5D for about $500 or a T4i for about the same money. He would share my lenses and I have some EF lenses so that's not a factor. He does not care about video. I told him the T4i has modern auto focus system, which I am guessing is much better than the 5D, I can shoot available light indoors, which I would imagine the 5D isn't as good as, and it has auto ISO.
He mostly shoots with a 50mm lens, though he also has a 28mm and a 200 mm lens.He enjoys sitting at the computer so I'm sure he would be shooting raw. For his type of shooting which is walking around town taking photos, would a 5D be a good choice, or would he be better off with a new crop camera.
As far as continuing with his Minolta, he uses a dark room in class, and does not pay for film. I'm not going to spend money buying and developing film for him.
For what it's worth I have always thought about full frame, but have never made the jump because I have felt that for my photography which is mostly taking photos of my family, friends, family outings and vacations, my Rebel type cameras work really well.
It sounds like your son is nicely focused on still photography at a high level. To my mind, for serious students of photography, a full-frame sensor is the best option (by a good distance). While the crop bodies have gotten better over the years, there's still a significant gap in image quality between the best APS-C (crop) sensors and good full-frame sensors (as on the 5Dc), particularly in lower-light / higher ISO conditions. The optical viewfinders on full-frame cameras also provide a much clearer and more expansive views for purposes of composition. One feature, useful for precise focusing, that the 5Dc lacks, that is present on the Rebel and on newer 5D versions, is Live View (the ability to see what you're about to shoot on the screen, for purposes of fine focusing). As for auto-focus, the 5Dc AF is fine, in my view, for all but fast-moving subjects. Plenty of people have produced plenty of wonderful imagery using a 5Dc with its AF system.
I would go with the 5D...I don't know that you would want "auto ISO" if you are learning about the relationship of Shutter Speed...ISO...and Apeture...
I can shoot in low light conditions with my 5Dc using the center focal point and spot metering with a Canon 50 1.4 with ISO up to 1200 and get a clean image...hand held.
If he is shooting 50mm on film, shooting 50mm on a full frame sensor will be what he is used to. Shooting 50mm on a crop sensor will be a little long for what he likes. I'd put a vote in for the 5d. The original 5d is still a very respected camera. From what I have read around the forums, the 5d is still talked about quite fondly, yet I never hear of the T4i. If photography is something hotly pursued after the course is done, transitioning into new pro gear from the 5d will be easier than from the T4i in my opinion.
Standing up for my old 5Dc on auto focus...it may not have the fastest AF, but using the back button for auto focus (held down) and the shutter button for what it's for...center focal point...shutter priority (because I follow through for pans many times) and AI Servo...the old camera can hold it's own...even with a 1.4x it still does a fair job
I think it would boil down to several issues, some as referenced above
1. T4i can be auto or manual iso. Not sure how savy/patient your son would be with only manual iso of the 5Dc
2. Unless you have a wide ef-s lens already, landscapes on the T4i would mean buying a new lens you would not use on your full frame.
3. How much low light (high iso) will your son do? If significant, then this favors the 5Dc.
I have tried explaining ISO, ASA to him. With his Minolta he has it set to whatever film they are using so he is not changing it. It would be good for him to learn ISO on a digital. He does not shoot indoors so low light does not effect him, but for me, I like shooting without a flash, wouldn't the new T4i which can shoot up to 6400 ISO be better than the older 5D. 6400 does have a lot of noise and needs quite a bit of processing to look good.
He doesn't shoot landscape. He likes to get up close with the 50mm. I have 18-135 STM and also 55-250 IS. I have a 85 1.8 that he could use on a 5D and I don't mind buying him inexpensive lenses such as 50 1.8 or possibly 35 f2 if he wanted full frame. If he wanted a zoom I'm sure I could find a 28-135 IS for under $200.
One more vote for the 5d. I started with a T2i and later purchased a 5d. I like the files from the 5d better, but both cameras can deliver excellent image quality. The biggest difference in my opinion is usability. The viewfinder in the 5d is much bigger and brighter than the t2i's. The 5d also has additional physical buttons and a rear thumb wheel that make manually controlling the camera much easier. I found the 5d correspondingly much more enjoyable to use and ended up selling my crop gear to fund purchasing EF lenses.
I had the 28-135 several years ago and didn't care for it all that much...I agree with Roger about having a constant 2.8 aperture, something the Canon doesn't have, but I can't comemt on the IQ on a lens I haven't used...sounds decent though...
Would the 28-135 IS be a good choice for him with a 5D?
Sure, there's nothing wrong with that lens for general shooting in good light.
The Tamron 28-75/2.8 would also be good. I myself would rather have the f/2.8 lens.
Also, there's nothing wrong with shooting with a few fast primes for a while. A 35 and an 80 is a good combo.
As for zooms, you might also consider longer lenses. If you're lucky you can snag a used 70-200/4L non-IS for $450. That'd remove equipment quality as an impediment. The alternative to the 70-200 would be the 70-300 IS, for about the same price. Longer reach, lesser image quality. I personally couldn't do without a medium telephoto like the 70-200. It's an essential part of my kit, and that is true for innumerable serious photographers.
bokap wrote:
My 15 yr. old son is taking a photography class and is using my old Minolta film camera. I shoot with a Canon T4i and have had various Canon crop cameras over the years but I never had a full frame digital. He understands the difference of the field of view between his film Minolta and my crop and wants to get a digital camera when his class ends.
He asked me which would be better, a used 5D for about $500 or a T4i for about the same money. He would share my lenses and I have some EF lenses so that's not a factor. He does not care about video. I told him the T4i has modern auto focus system, which I am guessing is much better than the 5D, I can shoot available light indoors, which I would imagine the 5D isn't as good as, and it has auto ISO.
He mostly shoots with a 50mm lens, though he also has a 28mm and a 200 mm lens.He enjoys sitting at the computer so I'm sure he would be shooting raw. For his type of shooting which is walking around town taking photos, would a 5D be a good choice, or would he be better off with a new crop camera.
As far as continuing with his Minolta, he uses a dark room in class, and does not pay for film. I'm not going to spend money buying and developing film for him.
For what it's worth I have always thought about full frame, but have never made the jump because I have felt that for my photography which is mostly taking photos of my family, friends, family outings and vacations, my Rebel type cameras work really well. ...Show more →
The 5D is a fine camera in terms of its ability to produce good image quality, but the t4i is, in many ways, a camera with more features that will be useful. A lot has changed in camera design since the introduction of the 5D, and quite a bit of that new stuff has made its way into entry-level cameras like the t4i.
Your son really does not "need" full frame at this point. The cropped sensor bodies can produce excellent image quality, including the ability to produce prints as large or larger than your son is likely to produce.
If he is set on using prime lenses - though this is not what I recommend at this stage - one of the older non-IS 35mm f/2 lenses would nicely substitute for his current 50mm, but the 28mm could work as well. The 200mm will provide a narrower angle of view on the cropped sensor camera, equivalent to using a 320mm lens.
My son told me he would rather shoot with my new T4i. Reason being he does want to be able to shoot video, and likes that it is a new camera with auto ISO and uses SD card.
After reading all these comments about the 5D I may want one for myself. I already have the Canon 80 1.8. Tamron 28-75 sounds good if I want something wider and longer, have seen the 24-105 IS for $650 so that may be a better option for me.
My T4i shoots at 6400 but it has a lot of noise. Would I get better results shooting 5D at 3200? Have seen the 5DII selling used for $1250. I think it would be worth it to me to pay double the cost of the 5D to have auto sensor cleaning, auto ISO, and Live View. Have to think about it. Like I said in my original post, I just shoot family photos, vacations etc, so I probably don't need anything better.
