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Archive 2013 · Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS Resolution Tests!
  
 
stanj
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p.6 #1 · Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS Resolution Tests!


gdanmitchell wrote:
My photography is no better when I use a $2000 lens than when I use a $200 lens.


While I don't believe that, I admire you for that if true.



Jan 05, 2013 at 08:05 PM
Gunzorro
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p.6 #2 · Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS Resolution Tests!


Jerry and Dan -- I'm happy to agree that the 24-105 is a good lens and a good value. I've nearly bought it several times. After looking at the distortion numbers on the new 24-70/4 IS, I'm impressed, and I think this will be a great lens in use. Jerry, think you'll happily set aside your trusty 24-85 (I had one too!) and use this in it place. I expect you won't be the only one finding this a very useful lens!

I was dismayed and somewhat shocked when I tried a CPS loaner 24-105 recently. I knew the barrel distortion was bad at 24, but I had no idea how much pincushion was present at 105. Anything with straight lines was doomed at either end, well into the mid range. When I saw how much loss of IQ I got when using the lens profile, I sent the lens back early -- one use, goodbye! For me, with my architectural background, it's just not the right lens.

I'm not being a gear snob here -- after that episode I reexamined my own fixed idea about lens/image quality and bought a sub-$200 lens, the slightly out-dated 28-135 IS for $170, shipped. This one features several points that Dan has repeatedly made: sharp in the center area of interest, and not a gaudy bauble for bragging, and enough lens for the use at hand. I made a great shot with it on a 1D Mark II body the other day, that I quite like and wouldn't have done with a different set-up. But this won't be my regular everyday combination. Still, it's nice to have and no worries taking it anywhere knowing I'll get good images. Great images? Not always.




Jan 05, 2013 at 08:06 PM
Ralph Conway
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p.6 #3 · Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS Resolution Tests!


off topic:
gdanmitchell wrote:
My photography is no better when I use a $2000 lens than when I use a $200 lens.

Dan


That wakes my interess, Dan. Would you start a new thread and post a list? I really would like to know which 200$ lenses you use. I am always willing to safe money, when possible.

Back to topic, please.



Jan 05, 2013 at 08:10 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.6 #4 · Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS Resolution Tests!


timbop wrote:
Roger - quick question about the "macro" mode. It reduces minimum FD to 2" from the front element, but what's the max working distance? That is, is focus fixed or do you have room to maneuver (with the obvious reduction in magnification)?


I was wondering about this as well...Perhaps Roger can chime in.


gdanmitchell wrote:
It turns out that this concern is vastly over-rated, and that barrel distortion and other similar sorts of lens distortions can be corrected in post with typically no visible degradation of the image.
Dan


My point was that when looking at Roger numbers, photographers should keep in mind that after correcting 3x more barrel distortion, the "edge" numbers for the 24-105L would be even lower. It also bothers me to carefully compose an image in LV and loose parts of the edge after distortion correction in post.
To me, Canon had to decide if a highly corrected 24mm focal length was more important then the extra reach. These tests gave us the answer.



Jan 05, 2013 at 08:13 PM
snapsy
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p.6 #5 · Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS Resolution Tests!


gdanmitchell wrote:
Since you asked:

1. Two of us share some of my lenses, so rather than ending up with two 24-105mm lenses (which I also considered) it made sense to have different lenses with different/complimentary strengths and weaknesses.

2. I am working on a long-term project photographing professional classical musicians for which this lens may have some real value.

The 24-70 seems like a fine lens from the use I've made of it so far. Time will tell how much difference in makes in the context of my own photography.

Dan


That makes sense. I'd be interested to hear out the 24-70 II compares to the 24-105 at infinity focus once you've had some time with the 24-70.



Jan 05, 2013 at 08:20 PM
StillFingerz
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p.6 #6 · Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS Resolution Tests!


Fred Miranda wrote:
I was wondering about this as well...Perhaps Roger can chime in.


My point was that when looking at Roger numbers, photographers should keep in mind that after correcting 3x more barrel distortion, the "edge" numbers for the 24-105L would be even lower. It also bothers me to carefully compose an image in LV and loose parts of the edge after distortion correction in post.

To me, Canon had to decide if a highly corrected 24mm focal length was more important then the extra reach. These tests gave us the answer.


+1 Fred, thanks for the 'back on topic' logic/post.

@ Gunz, it's the small size, lighter weight of this new 24-70 that excites...and you just can't beat the extra distortion correction. My 24-85 is really a gem, very hand-holdable; easy to carry, but getting the benefits of an L design will be helpful. With the new hybrid IS this new lens will really help this cripple's often shaky hands...tho I doubt seriously my disabled 'behind' was a factor in it's design

Bravo Canon for giving us another, very usable choice.


Edited on Jan 05, 2013 at 08:53 PM · View previous versions



Jan 05, 2013 at 08:42 PM
Ralph Conway
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p.6 #7 · Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS Resolution Tests!


StillFingerz wrote:
Bravo Canon for giving us another, very usable choice.


Yes. But a price around the 70-200 4.0 L IS would have helped to make a more easy decission.

Ralph



Jan 05, 2013 at 08:46 PM
spdntrxi
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p.6 #8 · Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS Resolution Tests!


Ralph Conway wrote:
Yes. But a price around the 70-200 4.0 L IS would have helped to make a more easy decission.

Ralph

no doubt 1499 US is steep.. yen is strong vs other currencies so that does not help matters... 1199-1299 is more where "it" probably belongs and will get there eventually..



Jan 05, 2013 at 08:53 PM
EB-1
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p.6 #9 · Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS Resolution Tests!


Is there any data yet at apertures f/8-10?

EBH



Jan 05, 2013 at 09:01 PM
StillFingerz
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p.6 #10 · Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS Resolution Tests!


EB-1 wrote:
Is there any data yet at apertures f/8-10?

EBH


Roger said in a week or so, they are taking apart the lens it seems; an interesting testing scheme



Jan 05, 2013 at 09:03 PM
 

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Gunzorro
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p.6 #11 · Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS Resolution Tests!


Fred Miranda wrote:
I was wondering about this as well...Perhaps Roger can chime in.


My point was that when looking at Roger numbers, photographers should keep in mind that after correcting 3x more barrel distortion, the "edge" numbers for the 24-105L would be even lower. It also bothers me to carefully compose an image in LV and loose parts of the edge after distortion correction in post.
To me, Canon had to decide if a highly corrected 24mm focal length was more important then the extra reach. These tests gave us the answer.


Fred -- Exactly! With Canon's new 24-70/2.8 L II, and especially after seeing Roger's numbers on the even lower distortion on the 24-70/4 L IS, it's like Canon is expanding the actual zoom range relative to the earlier 24-105L IS and to a slightly less extent the original 24-70L. I'd hazard a guess that the 24-105 after lens profile distortion correction is something like 26-100, which could significantly affect composition and certainly resolution.



Jan 05, 2013 at 09:20 PM
StillFingerz
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p.6 #12 · Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS Resolution Tests!


Ralph Conway wrote:
Yes. But a price around the 70-200 4.0 L IS would have helped to make a more easy decission.

Ralph


Agreed, it will drop down a few hundred, be close in price to the 70-200 when it 1st came out; 1200 was a good deal in 07 when I picked one up...1200 or 1000 for this new 24-70 would be okay



Jan 05, 2013 at 09:27 PM
chez
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p.6 #13 · Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS Resolution Tests!


gdanmitchell wrote:
I do quite a bit of photography, and I can say in all honesty that I get no more pleasure from using my most expensive lens than I do from using my least expensive lens, much less more inspiration. I don't even think about this when I'm making photographs. A lens is simply a tool that needs to perform well and consistently for the task at hand.

My photography is no better when I use a $2000 lens than when I use a $200 lens.

Dan


Then why did you purchase a $2000 lens?



Jan 05, 2013 at 09:32 PM
RCicala
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p.6 #14 · Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS Resolution Tests!


I only played with the Macro mode for a few shots. You can shoot in that mode out to a few feet that I know of, but I didn't check exactly how far. The macro shots seemed reasonably sharp and in addition to hopefully doing some f/5.6 and f/8 shots next week, I'll do some macro distance shooting.

The disassembly was very interesting: there's some things inside there I've never seen before. One thing that was interesting is the macro focusing takes up almost half the helicoid, even though it's only active in macro mode. It makes me think that probably 24-105 wasn't possible if they did the macro feature also - at least not without making the lens much larger physically. I should have that up tomorrow -- it's very hard to explain without images and I won't try here.

I don't want to get all involved in the distortion correction argument until I have some numbers to argue with. But I've been told by a couple of people with true lens-design credentials that eliminating distortion in the lens almost always involves some reduction in resolution - but that it's less than the reduction in corner resolution caused by correcting it in post processing.



Jan 05, 2013 at 10:54 PM
Wobble
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p.6 #15 · Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS Resolution Tests!


Interesting read on meaning of MTF:

MTF Explained



Jan 06, 2013 at 01:37 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.6 #16 · Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS Resolution Tests!


Wobble wrote:
Interesting read on meaning of MTF:

MTF Explained


It is a good explanation and a wonderful reminder of how complex and non-binary much of this is.

Dan



Jan 06, 2013 at 02:56 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.6 #17 · Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS Resolution Tests!


RCicala wrote:
I only played with the Macro mode for a few shots. You can shoot in that mode out to a few feet that I know of, but I didn't check exactly how far. The macro shots seemed reasonably sharp and in addition to hopefully doing some f/5.6 and f/8 shots next week, I'll do some macro distance shooting.

The disassembly was very interesting: there's some things inside there I've never seen before. One thing that was interesting is the macro focusing takes up almost half the helicoid, even though it's only active in macro mode. It makes me think that
...Show more

Thanks for info. Let us know when you update your article.
Best,
Fred



Jan 06, 2013 at 08:02 PM
RobDickinson
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p.6 #18 · Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS Resolution Tests!


I've only had a 25-105 a few weeks (loaner) and havnt used it much but I did use it on a sunset the other day and I got huge amounts of flare (not processed not published yet).

is this typical? Does the 24-70f4L have the same issue or not?



Jan 06, 2013 at 08:09 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.6 #19 · Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS Resolution Tests!


stanj wrote:
While I don't believe that, I admire you for that if true.


I threw out that $200 number, without thinking. It actually is not accurate. My least expensive lens is actually my old 35mm f/2 which seems to be available for roughly $300. I have a soft spot for this lens and really enjoy using it when I want to lighten the equipment or when I want to optimize IQ at 35mm. I use it for several things - mostly street photography but also for occasional landscape photographs when I work with primes. Here is an example:







(Believe it or not, this is an example of urban street photography, shot in an alley in the Mission District of San Francisco.)

On occasion when shooting street I may take only this lens. In a few other cases it is part of a small set that also includes the 50mm f/1.4 and the 85mm f/1.8. I sometimes use a different set of three primes for street that replaces the 35mm and 85mm lenses with 24mm and 135mm primes. Sometimes I shoot street with a zoom or two, or even combine a prime with a zoom.)

I'm agnostic on the question of whether or not a lens has a red band and a letter L embossed on it - I literally do not care about this when I'm shooting. All of the lenses I have can produce excellent image quality, and I select among them primarily for functional reasons - the subjects I'll be shooting, how I'll be shooting, whether I am on foot or working from a vehicle, and so forth.

So, yes, I'm just as good of a photographer when I'm shooting with my inexpensive non-L primes as I am when I choose to shoot with more expensive stuff.

Dan

And just for fun, some photographs made today with the 24-105.















Edited on Jan 07, 2013 at 04:49 AM · View previous versions



Jan 07, 2013 at 02:32 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.6 #20 · Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS Resolution Tests!


RobDickinson wrote:
I've only had a 25-105 a few weeks (loaner) and havnt used it much but I did use it on a sunset the other day and I got huge amounts of flare (not processed not published yet).

is this typical? Does the 24-70f4L have the same issue or not?


I've shot the 24-105 a lot for subjects like that and haven't noticed any unusual tendency to flare that is out of the ordinary for a zoom. I have seen, on a few rare occasions, something that reminds me of the flare problem that originally caused the lens to be recalled right after its introduction - but this is really rare.

Dan



Jan 07, 2013 at 02:37 AM
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