Just one of those dilemas. 7D vs OM-D for specific use.

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bpark42
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p.2 #1 · Just one of those dilemas. 7D vs OM-D for specific use.

I'm not sure about the first one. Maybe a focus miss, maybe the lens is just weak on the right side...?

The second one looks like a focus miss to me, though again it is hard to tell. The background (infinity) looks like it might be sharper, but it's hard to tell at the posted size.

It's possible you got a dud of a kit lens, though it is worth noting that the 14-42 is at its worst at the long end. You may want to try some controlled testing. i.e. Camera on a tripod, manual focus via magnified view. That will at least show you what the lens (though perhaps not the camera) is capable of.

I still suggest at least renting a better lens, and no matter what lens you shoot, be more precise with your focus. Do not use multiple focus points. Use a single point/area and set it carefully. The touchscreen works well for this.

Dec 31, 2012 at 03:13 AM

tived
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p.2 #2 · Just one of those dilemas. 7D vs OM-D for specific use.

Coming from Canon to OM-D, certainly takes a bit of getting used to. I am finding a little difficult getting the hang of things.

We just have to get to know the camera better, I mean I could work my 1D MkIV in the dark but I have also spend almost 10 years with the 1-series camera's

So, keep practicing and it will eventually come together :-) at least thats what I keep telling myself

Happy Shooting and the best for the new year

Henrik

Dec 31, 2012 at 03:46 AM

misanthropic a
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p.2 #3 · Just one of those dilemas. 7D vs OM-D for specific use.

First shot to me seems fine, that kit lens is known for pretty bad corners. It has poor corners, seems fine in the center.
Second pic to me seems mis-focused, as in it focused one the trees in the background instead of the ones you meant it to.
I have the 12-50 myself, and its a fine walkabout lens though I haven't used it but once as I am a die-hard prime guy.

Dec 31, 2012 at 05:36 AM

Bifurcator
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p.2 #4 · Just one of those dilemas. 7D vs OM-D for specific use.

That seems about right for this lens. Note top/left of this 100% crop. I've used the various 14-45/14-42 models and they're not very good IMO. Stopped down they can be sharp but they're pretty characterless and bland. I guess that's typical of a kit lens. OTOH if you will notice, most ummm, like 90% of the interesting shots IQ-wise, posted here and on some of the other sites are achieved using manual focus alt glass. There are a couple of excellent µ4/3 native lenses but only a couple! And with our small µ4/3 sensors we need all the help we can get. If you're backpacking (as shown) and wanna keep things light then there's a 20mm that's worth getting. The Panasonic 7-14 can produce interesting results but I wouldn't call it an excellent lens - especially not when it's attached to a non-panasonic body. On the long end there's the Oly 75mm at 1.8 I think it is. At first I thought it was a loser too but recently I've seen that it's really not. It of course isn't as good as the less expensive Zeiss C/Y 85mm f/1.4 but I guess it's lighter weight. In the 35mm to 58mm range there's so many excellent alt lenses to choose from and most of them are under $100. There's also a few MF alt zooms that will cream anything and everything available in a native µ4/3 mount - like the Zeiss (C/Y) 28-80, Zeiss C/Y 100-300, Tamron SP 65-300, Tamron SP 35-105mm f/2.8, Canon FD 70-210, and so on! The two native µ4/3 Cosina made Voigtlander lenses (17.5mm and 25mm at f/0.9) are probably excellent - I've seen excellent results from them anyway... So, that's my advice: Grab the few good native lenses that do exist and/or get some nice alt lenses. You will be much happier with the performance of your OM-D that way.

Edited on Dec 31, 2012 at 09:30 AM · View previous versions

Dec 31, 2012 at 09:10 AM

justruss
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p.2 #5 · Just one of those dilemas. 7D vs OM-D for specific use.

I think these are not good shots to judge the problem by. Both look mis-focused. Both could be the result of wind/hand movement-- even if you think there was none.

Get a baseline on what the camera can produce by doing a simple (easy) test of shooting from tripod (if you have it; handheld is OK) at a flat surface. And then try a scene with plenty of detail in a relatively flat plane (like shrubs/trees).

I suspect this is a use issue rather than a hardware issue.

Dec 31, 2012 at 09:27 AM

Bifurcator
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p.2 #6 · Just one of those dilemas. 7D vs OM-D for specific use.

Yeah, I don't see any hardware issues here either. Just a typical kit lens with a missed focusing target/subject.

Dec 31, 2012 at 09:39 AM

carstenw
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p.2 #7 · Just one of those dilemas. 7D vs OM-D for specific use.

Bifurcator wrote:
There are a couple of excellent µ4/3 native lenses but only a couple! And with our small µ4/3 sensors we need all the help we can get. If you're backpacking (as shown) and wanna keep things light then there's a 20mm that's worth getting. The Panasonic 7-14 can produce interesting results but I wouldn't call it an excellent lens - especially not when it's attached to a non-panasonic body. On the long end there's the Oly 75mm at 1.8 I think it is.

There are quite a lot of very good lenses, including the above, the Oly 12/2, the PanaLeica 25/1.4, the Oly 45/1.8, and there are other lenses which are great performers within certain parameters, like the very compact Oly 9-18, stopped down. In fact, there are more great lenses to choose from in the MFT system than in any other mirrorless system, by quite a lot.

The two native µ4/3 Cosina made Voigtlander lenses (17.5mm and 25mm at f/0.9) are probably excellent - I've seen excellent results from them anyway... So, that's my advice: Grab the few good native lenses that do exist and/or get some nice alt lenses. You will be much happier with the performance of your OM-D that way.

Yes, grab native or adapted lenses. Good advice!

Dec 31, 2012 at 09:40 AM

Bifurcator
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p.2 #8 · Just one of those dilemas. 7D vs OM-D for specific use.

Well, I haven't found that to be AT ALL true. It seems like you haven't really either. "great performers within certain parameters" sounds like an excuse for a suck-ass lens. "Oly 9-18, stopped down"... almost every lens is great stopped down. I would say well over half the native µ4/3 lens offerings are crap! They're built like crap! They have crap specs. They produce bland or crap results. And really the only thing exceptional about them are their outrageous list prices! Anyone thinking otherwise has not used good lenses. What's puzzeling to me is that I know you have used good lenses so I'm not sure where this is coming from. Justifying your format decision? <shrug>

But thanks, I think I missed and said "there's a 20mm that's worth getting" when I actually meant to name the PanaLeica 25/1.4.

Dec 31, 2012 at 09:58 AM

carstenw
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p.2 #9 · Just one of those dilemas. 7D vs OM-D for specific use.

If you are talking about some of the zooms, yes, I agree. Not at all about most of the primes, nor the new 12-35 and 35-100 zooms. There are some really sweet lenses there. The PanaLeica 25/1.4 has better rendering than almost anything short of a Leica 50mm f/1.4 ASPH Summilux-M. The Oly 9-18 is nothing special wide open, and the build is a bit flimsy, but stopped down, it is not merely good, but excels. There was a recent shot in one of the MFT threads, maybe the OM-D thread, which showed this.

And I have definitely used good lenses, everything from Nikkor to Leica R to Leica M and Zeiss ZF and Contax, and a whole slew of Zeiss and Schneider medium format stuff.

I don't personally like the Panasonic 20/1.7 but many do.

Ultimately, this has to be seen in comparison to what else is out there in mirrorless land, or maybe APS-C land, and I don't think that there is another non-FF lens lineup out there which has as much good stuff to choose from.

Dec 31, 2012 at 10:17 AM

Bifurcator
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p.2 #10 · Just one of those dilemas. 7D vs OM-D for specific use.

Maybe that's where some of the discrepancies are stemming from then... I don't limit lens evaluation in "comparison to [only] what else is out there in mirrorless land" when adapters for just about every mount are available at $15 a pop. It's the main point of µ4/3 in my way of seeing things. Mirrorless interchangeable lens system to me spells plethora. I get to use, test, and compare almost every lens ever made. If that aspect didn't exist I would NOT be using a mirrorless system at all. I would probably be using one of Canon's past 1D models or maybe something like the D700.

Dec 31, 2012 at 10:27 AM

RoySussex
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p.2 #11 · Just one of those dilemas. 7D vs OM-D for specific use.

Plenty of other people have made comments that square with my own experience but I'll just endorse the reservations about the 12-50 kit lens. It's such a useful range however, that I find myself carrying it quite often. I don't get that many outstanding photographic opportunities but when I do a slightly less than stellar lens is seldom the ultimate limitation.

I also have the adequate Panasonic 14 and 20's plus the excellent Olympus 45 all of which substantially outperform the kit lens which - in my example at least - is noticeably short of acuity at the long end, particularly. For comparison I have a D700 plus the big three 2.8s and quite a few decent primes: I hardly ever pick it up these days if I'm in any doubt about what I'm going to be shooting or if I'm proposing to walk any distance.

Reservations about the kit lens aside, you can perk it up a lot with a bit of judicious pp in LR4. My only reservations about the OMD are related to the ergonomics.

Roy

Dec 31, 2012 at 11:51 AM

CalW
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p.2 #12 · Just one of those dilemas. 7D vs OM-D for specific use.

I believe that there is consensus on two points for the original poster:

(1) Your excellent camera is handicapped by a poor example of a so-so lens. You must buy at least one quality lens. But don't expect consensus here on which one(s) to buy - that is up to your needs vs. your budget. For what it may be worth, my current general purpose walkabout zoom lens is the excellent Panasonic 12-35 f/2.8. My best and most useful prime is the Panasonic-Leica 25 f/1.4.

(2) You need to work on focusing technique, starting with use of a single focus point, not a matrix of focus points.

I developed single focus point technique on the Canon 20D, 5D, 1D2 and 1Ds2, and that technique transferred seamlessly to the OM-D E-M5. In fact, I believe that the E-M5 focuses on stationary objects better in most situations than any of the Canons. So this is not an issue unique to the camera. I also suggest trying the magnified view focus assist feature of the E-M5, even if only to access the smaller focus "box" when using auto focus. Some help to get started is here:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1144967/0

In my opinion, you have a great camera - stick with it and forget the 7D!

Dec 31, 2012 at 01:45 PM

802walker
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p.2 #13 · Just one of those dilemas. 7D vs OM-D for specific use.

justruss wrote:
I think these are not good shots to judge the problem by. Both look mis-focused. Both could be the result of wind/hand movement-- even if you think there was none.

Get a baseline on what the camera can produce by doing a simple (easy) test of shooting from tripod (if you have it; handheld is OK) at a flat surface. And then try a scene with plenty of detail in a relatively flat plane (like shrubs/trees).

I suspect this is a use issue rather than a hardware issue.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will do a test shot as you say and see what the results are.

Dec 31, 2012 at 04:20 PM

802walker
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p.2 #14 · Just one of those dilemas. 7D vs OM-D for specific use.

CalW wrote:
I believe that there is consensus on two points for the original poster:

(1) Your excellent camera is handicapped by a poor example of a so-so lens. You must buy at least one quality lens. But don't expect consensus here on which one(s) to buy - that is up to your needs vs. your budget. For what it may be worth, my current general purpose walkabout zoom lens is the excellent Panasonic 12-35 f/2.8. My best and most useful prime is the Panasonic-Leica 25 f/1.4.

(2) You need to work on focusing technique, starting with use of a single focus point, not a matrix of focus points.

I developed single focus point technique on the Canon 20D, 5D, 1D2 and 1Ds2, and that technique transferred seamlessly to the OM-D E-M5. In fact, I believe that the E-M5 focuses on stationary objects better in most situations than any of the Canons. So this is not an issue unique to the camera. I also suggest trying the magnified view focus assist feature of the E-M5, even if only to access the smaller focus "box" when using auto focus. Some help to get started is here:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1144967/0

In my opinion, you have a great camera - stick with it and forget the 7D!

Thanks! I need to find out which wide-angle lens I should purchase. If I decide to stick with my OM-D, I'm going to sell my old 10-22 to purchase a replacement. It seems like the only options are the 7-14, 9-18 - and I read mixed reviews about both all the time. I suppose there is the 12mm, but I worry I would miss the wider possibilities.

Dec 31, 2012 at 04:28 PM

bobbytan
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p.2 #15 · Just one of those dilemas. 7D vs OM-D for specific use.

802walker wrote:
CalW wrote:
I believe that there is consensus on two points for the original poster:

(1) Your excellent camera is handicapped by a poor example of a so-so lens. You must buy at least one quality lens. But don't expect consensus here on which one(s) to buy - that is up to your needs vs. your budget. For what it may be worth, my current general purpose walkabout zoom lens is the excellent Panasonic 12-35 f/2.8. My best and most useful prime is the Panasonic-Leica 25 f/1.4.

(2) You need to work on focusing technique, starting with use of a single focus point, not a matrix of focus points.

I developed single focus point technique on the Canon 20D, 5D, 1D2 and 1Ds2, and that technique transferred seamlessly to the OM-D E-M5. In fact, I believe that the E-M5 focuses on stationary objects better in most situations than any of the Canons. So this is not an issue unique to the camera. I also suggest trying the magnified view focus assist feature of the E-M5, even if only to access the smaller focus "box" when using auto focus. Some help to get started is here:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1144967/0

In my opinion, you have a great camera - stick with it and forget the 7D!

Thanks! I need to find out which wide-angle lens I should purchase. If I decide to stick with my OM-D, I'm going to sell my old 10-22 to purchase a replacement. It seems like the only options are the 7-14, 9-18 - and I read mixed reviews about both all the time. I suppose there is the 12mm, but I worry I would miss the wider possibilities.

I have no experience with the 9-18 and I am pretty sure it is an excellent lens but I do like my 7-14 lens which performs almost as well as the 12/2 from f4.

Some samples here:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1131132

Dec 31, 2012 at 05:16 PM

kevindar
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p.2 #16 · Just one of those dilemas. 7D vs OM-D for specific use.

for your particular use, pick up a t2i. put magic lantern on it so it will allow for better bracketing. save your money for a better midrange lens if you want one, something like the simga 17-50 OS.

Dec 31, 2012 at 05:26 PM

802walker
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p.2 #17 · Just one of those dilemas. 7D vs OM-D for specific use.

t2i?

Dec 31, 2012 at 05:31 PM

carstenw
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p.2 #18 · Just one of those dilemas. 7D vs OM-D for specific use.

Canon Rebel. I don't see that this solves anything.

Dec 31, 2012 at 05:49 PM

bobbytan
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p.2 #19 · Just one of those dilemas. 7D vs OM-D for specific use.

No, it doesn't. Like any new camera, you need to learn how to use it properly ... and the OM-D has a steeper learning curve than most other cameras. I positively dislike the menu and operating system of the OM-D ... it's a PITA to use, to put it mildly.

carstenw wrote:
Canon Rebel. I don't see that this solves anything.

Dec 31, 2012 at 06:33 PM

kevindar
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p.2 #20 · Just one of those dilemas. 7D vs OM-D for specific use.

if you want something light and portable, with IQ of 7D, for shooting landscape, pick up a t2i. or you can learn to use the omd and invest more in its glass. at the end of the day, all these cameras are capable of producing very nice images. omd at base iso has a slight advantage in DR over the t2i/7d. I think the lenses on t2i have a slight advantage over the omd ultrawide, form what I have seen.
However, both system should produce excellent landscape.

Dec 31, 2012 at 06:46 PM

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