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Archive 2012 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!
  
 
anthonygh
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p.1 #1 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


This might be of interest to members on here....Seems Instagram, and possibly FB, believe they have the right to commercially exploit, without payment to the photographer, any members images posted on their site...


http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57559710-38/instagram-says-it-now-has-the-right-to-sell-your-photos/



Dec 18, 2012 at 07:05 PM
Gaby Lastman
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p.1 #2 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


Put a Watermark on every picture, if they use any of them, it's free advertising for you also.


Dec 18, 2012 at 08:24 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #3 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


FB is very clear in their "fine print" that they can, and can extend the same to others, use your images freely as a condition that YOU ARE AGREEING TO in their terms of agreement that allow you to post images on their site.

Now that FB is overseeing Instagram, the change in the policy comes as no surprise. As to the "privacy laws" that the article suggests will ensue ... they are a worthless endeavor because anyone posting on FB, has in their terms of agreement already agreed in writing to allow FB to do so. Kinda hard to claim you've been violated by someone doing exactly what you gave them written permission to do.

If you don't want your work being used by FB and whomever FB deems to extend that usage to ... don't use FB to post your images (i.e. pretty simple). However, if you do post on FB, etc. ... some form of watermark, logo, name, etc. should be part of the image, imo. It will have no legal merit to keep people from using it (i.e. you already agreed in writing) ... but it might deter them for aesthetic reasons. Also, if they then remove your watermark,logo,name, etc. ... they risk committing a violation of DMCA.



Dec 18, 2012 at 09:07 PM
Dudewithoutape
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p.1 #4 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


RustyBug wrote:
FB is very clear in their "fine print" that they can, and can extend the same to others, use your images freely as a condition that YOU ARE AGREEING TO in their terms of agreement that allow you to post images on their site.

Now that FB is overseeing Instagram, the change in the policy comes as no surprise. As to the "privacy laws" that the article suggests will ensue ... they are a worthless endeavor because anyone posting on FB, has in their terms of agreement already agreed in writing to allow FB to do so. Kinda hard to
...Show more

This, AFAIK



Dec 18, 2012 at 09:21 PM
Mr Joe
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p.1 #5 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


This isn't about Facebook usage, it's about Instagram - which is run separately, and has a different TOS agreement. The objection is the new TOS allows Instagram to use your photos in advertising without any compensation.

Here are some more good articles on this topic:
http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2012/12/18/instagram-plans-to-sell-your-photos-commercially-without-paying-you/

http://blog.sfgate.com/techchron/2012/12/18/instagram-star-koci-may-delete-account-over-new-user-terms/



Dec 18, 2012 at 10:06 PM
henryp
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p.1 #6 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


No, Instagram can't sell your photos: what the new terms of service really mean

Henry Posner
henryp@bhphoto.com
B&H Photo-Video



Dec 18, 2012 at 10:26 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #7 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


I understand that FB and Instagram are two different entities ... they are just going to be playing by similar rules now, which are simply put:

We'll let you use our site if you let us use your pics ... and btw, we're gonna make money from them, which I know you won't mind, since we are letting you use our site for free, anyway ... mutually agreed (TOS), good.

People are just "put off" by the concept that they are no longer being given a "free lunch" that they've come to expect ... with many users being savvy in their "exploits" of untold amounts of marketing being generated at no cost to themselves.

Pretty simple ... it's their site, their rules @ Quid Pro Quo ... in a written agreement. While it might seem incredibly "unfair" by some who want their "free lunch" and to be able to eat it too ... if you don't like it don't use. It's not like FB, etc. are service hosts that you actually PAID for the service.



Dec 18, 2012 at 10:27 PM
Mr Joe
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p.1 #8 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


@henryp - the title of that article is very misleading. Instagram can indeed sell your photos by allowing advertisers to pay to use your content to promote their product/business. And the really messed up part is, that Instagram may not distinguish the difference between content generated by users, and content from advertisers.

@rustybug - I don't use Instagram, and don't plan to.



Dec 18, 2012 at 10:46 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #9 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


Mr Joe wrote:
@rustybug - I don't use Instagram, and don't plan to.


Amen to that ... no FB for me either.

I've read the fine print, and it is CRYSTAL CLEAR to me @ an agreed upon quid pro quo, so users who complain after the fact won't have a leg to stand on, no matter how much they try to cry "unfair" ... i.e. nothing unfair to something you agreed to.



Dec 18, 2012 at 10:55 PM
lukeb
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p.1 #10 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


RustyBug wrote:
Amen to that ... no FB for me either.

I've read the fine print, and it is CRYSTAL CLEAR to me @ an agreed upon quid pro quo, so users who complain after the fact won't have a leg to stand on, no matter how much they try to cry "unfair" ... i.e. nothing unfair to something you agreed to.


+1 That's why its oh so important to completely read the terms very carefully! I forget which one it is, but a photo sharing and sales web site I visited a few years back had a clause that the photos you posted on their site became their property.

Bottom line: DON'T JUST CHECK THE "AGREE" BOX WITHOUT COMPLETELY READING THE TERMS! Also, best to leave the Miller's or Buds in the fridge until after reading them



Dec 18, 2012 at 11:12 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



TT1000
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p.1 #11 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


I didn't read the new TOS. I don't use the service.

However, as a general issue, how many people that provide photo content to Instagram obtain releases from anyone else that might appear in their photos. Zero ?

So if I'm Instagram (or company doing deal with Instagram to use the content) and I want to use that content for trade or advertising purposes how am I doing that without risking a lawsuit from the other people in the photos ? Even if there is only one person in the photo, how do I know that that is the person whose account it is ?

I must be missing something here. Please explain.







Dec 19, 2012 at 01:07 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #12 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


Risk / reward ... what are the odds that some John/Jane Q. Public are going to actually file a suit?

Sometimes it is easier to beg for forgiveness (or offer a token amount) than it is to ask for permission. They'll take their chances and odds that JQP won't find out, and even if they do ... they won't have the resolve to do much about it due to the legal costs, time & energy involved. Then, even if they do lose one or two along the way, it is more than offset by all the ones that they got away with for free. It's strategic roulette and they know the odds.

That and if they are selective to use images that are not clear identity (distant, back view, silhouette, partially obscured, etc), they'll argue it was someone else, and with millions of people ... well, they'll take their chances @ risk/reward combined with legal savvy over John Q. Public.



Dec 19, 2012 at 02:43 AM
anthonygh
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p.1 #13 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


I often send pics to my daughters of family days out......they often post them on FB. So my images of my kids and / or grandchildren could eventually end up being commercially exploited and distributed by some social media company.

It is not true that people get a free lunch by using these sites. FB and others need their vast membership so it can access the raw membership data that then generates revenue streams for them...Google being a prime example of why it gives a 'free' service to users.



Dec 19, 2012 at 11:45 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #14 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


That's right .. no free lunch ... i.e. SOMEBODY is paying the bills for the service that FB (etc.) that its members/users are NOT paying (directly).

People act like it is wrong for FB to try and figure out how to pay the bills, or make more money for their shareholders (who are always clamoring for more money). Users of "free stuff" never care, as long as it doesn't effect them and they are getting to use the service for free (it would be such a shame to actually pay for what you use) ... then the second that they realize that it does effect them, they get bent out of shape.

People always have the option to close their account ... but if their images have been shared with others, it then becomes necessary for others to close their accounts also in order for it not to be subject to the TOS while it remains "somewhere" in the site.

Of course, closing the barn door after turning all the cows out in the streets doesn't get them back in the barn. And with "everyone" letting their cows run in the streets, it quickly becomes a haven for cattle rustlers to snag a cow now and again, because, who can tell which ones are missing ... the cow owners have already relinquished any sense of accounting when they dumped them all out in the streets to freely roam around.

Sadly, I've got no good recommendation on how someone is supposed to get their images out of the hands of FB, etc. I just know that when I read their TOS ... I believed that they meant what they said when they indicated it was a quid pro quo that I was granted them rights/permission for usage however they deemed or extended to others. Thus, I avoid posting on social media (meanwhile, I've been missing out on all the savvy marketing that I could have been doing) ... using email instead ... and suspect that most pro's keep the bulk of their imagery out of social media as well.

I truly empathize for those who are just now realizing the risk issues associated with social media usage. I get the "policy change" ticks people off ... and the "that's not right" perspective. But, it's their ball, their rules, with the masses often failing to recognize the distinction between a "right" and a "privilege".

In a similar vein here at FM ... it is Fred's ball, Fred's rules ... and things like this should make us all the more appreciative of what Fred has done here that we are privileged to so greatly enjoy.

FM ROCKS !!!




Dec 19, 2012 at 03:36 PM
Dudewithoutape
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p.1 #15 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


What happens when people post commercial photos on FB?

Or similar to anthonygh said, someone shares content that wasn't meant or wanted to be shared on there without permission of the owner and then it's used? Who do you file suit against; original FB sharer or company that used the photo? I feel like these ToS will have to be broken



Dec 19, 2012 at 07:39 PM
JohnJ
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p.1 #16 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


Even if every professional photographer pulled out of such organisations it is probably only 0.000000000000000000000001% of the total and wouldn't even register as a blip.


Dec 19, 2012 at 09:06 PM
TT1000
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p.1 #17 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


Dudewithouttape, most states (all that I've checked) in the US prohibit the use of someones likeness for trade or advertising purposes without written consent of such person (or, in the case of minors, their parent/guardian).

I can not take your photo and grant Instagram rights I don't have (i.e., to commercially exploit your image without your permission).

If I take your photo and upload it to Instagram it doesn't matter what Instagram TOS are. That is an agreement between me and Instagram. Again, I can't expand Instagram's rights simply because Instagram wants to exploit the image commercially and I, photographer/copyright owner, agree.

It follows that if either Instagram or any of it's licensees uses your likeness for trade or advertising purposes w/o your permission you could sue each such user.

Instagram would (I would assume w/o reading it's TOS) have a claim for indemnification against the uploader if the subject of the photo were to sue it. Because most of these TOS make you represent that whatever rights you are purporting to grant (in this hypo, rights to commercially exploit) you in fact have the right to grant. But can you imagine Instagram pursuing such an action ? How fast would people dump the service ?





Dec 20, 2012 at 03:45 AM
TT1000
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p.1 #18 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


Rusty, why do you use so many quote marks ?

Anway, you wrote "I get the "policy change."

What exactly has changed ? What can they do now they couldn't do before ?



Dec 20, 2012 at 03:53 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #19 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


The "policy change" is contained in the OP link.

Excerpted from the OP link.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57559710-38/instagram-says-it-now-has-the-right-to-sell-your-photos/

The new intellectual property policy, which takes effect on January 16, comes three months after Facebook completed its acquisition of the popular photo-sharing site. Unless Instagram users delete their accounts before the January deadline, they cannot opt out.



TT1000 wrote:
Rusty, why do you use so many quote marks ?

They can be easier to read through than a series of closely placed commas that can sometimes be confusing to follow. In some instances, they can help people consider an intention of literal denotation vs. connotation. They are also easier to type than to enter html for italics or bold, which also get "old". Sometimes I use them to indicate something that people say. Why do you ask?



Dec 20, 2012 at 04:00 AM
TT1000
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p.1 #20 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


Rusty, why rely on what cnet says the policy change is when the TOS is readily available. I suppose I shouldn't talk as I didn't read the TOS. Nevertheless, this Cnet part, as I noted above responding to someone else that wrote substantially the same, doesn't get them ad rights with respect to anyone but the uploader.

Obviously FBs lawyers understand this so I wonder what they are really getting at.

"Under the new policy, Facebook claims the perpetual right to license all public Instagram photos to companies or any other organization, including for advertising purposes"









Dec 20, 2012 at 09:39 PM
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