Fuji XPro1 vs Nex 5n Comparision Images

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flashinm
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p.1 #1 · Fuji XPro1 vs Nex 5n Comparision Images

This is a spin off from another thread were I was asked to provide samples comparing my xpro1 with nex5n. Both cameras were equalized as much as possible. Shots were at ISO 200, 5000K white balance, 1/1000 at f5.6 with the Contax G 90mm. The image from the Nex5n was about 1/2 a stop brighter, so Fuji probably overstates their ISO by a half a stop. No sharpening was added to any of the files. The fuji jpeg was set to 0 sharpening, but probably still applies some sharpening at this level. Here's the test image:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Below are 3 sets of 100% crops:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

I'll let you draw your own conclusions, but my take away is there is very little to choose between these files.

Dec 17, 2012 at 10:44 PM

jcolwell
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p.1 #2 · Fuji XPro1 vs Nex 5n Comparision Images

IMO, the Fuji jpeg files provide cleaner images with significantly more detail.

Dec 17, 2012 at 10:49 PM

mortyb
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p.1 #3 · Fuji XPro1 vs Nex 5n Comparision Images

Thanks a lot for doing this. The Fuji jpgs seem phenomenal.

Dec 17, 2012 at 10:50 PM

Guari
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p.1 #4 · Fuji XPro1 vs Nex 5n Comparision Images

Fuji jpg all the way

Dec 17, 2012 at 11:04 PM

sebboh
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p.1 #5 · Fuji XPro1 vs Nex 5n Comparision Images

man, fuji's got some awesome jpegs! i hope the raw processing on lightroom get's a little better.

Dec 17, 2012 at 11:07 PM

Jeff Kott
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p.1 #6 · Fuji XPro1 vs Nex 5n Comparision Images

I might have missed it, but I don't see where you say how the 5N files were processed.
SOOC jpeg or converted raws?

Dec 17, 2012 at 11:08 PM

flashinm
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p.1 #7 · Fuji XPro1 vs Nex 5n Comparision Images

Sorry, the Nex was a raw file processed in Lightroom.

Dec 17, 2012 at 11:10 PM

Emacs
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p.1 #8 · Fuji XPro1 vs Nex 5n Comparision Images

Something is wrong with your "comparison". I guess it's you

Bayer filter provides higher resolution as can easily be seen here:

Blame yourself for your poor skill of PP. No offence, just facts.

Dec 17, 2012 at 11:11 PM

flashinm
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p.1 #9 · Fuji XPro1 vs Nex 5n Comparision Images

Emacs wrote:
Something is wrong with your "comparison". I guess it's you

Bayer filter provides higher resolution as can easily be seen here:

I've done the same test twice now, with identical results. I realize that my results don't mirror those on other review sites, that's why I'm posting them. Do you think the review sites are using the exact same lens to compare the cameras?

There's no PP skill involved. I just set the sharpening to zero and exported.

Dec 17, 2012 at 11:18 PM

sebboh
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p.1 #10 · Fuji XPro1 vs Nex 5n Comparision Images

Emacs wrote:
Something is wrong with your "comparison". I guess it's you

Bayer filter provides higher resolution as can easily be seen here:
Blame yourself for your poor skill of PP. No offence, just facts.

first what exactly are we looking at?
second, my understanding was that there was no PP in the OPs comparison.
third, bayer filter provides higher color resolution all other things being equal, not necessarily higher luminance resolution as i understand. all other things aren't equal though – the fuji does NOT have and AA filter, which should give it a little luminance resolution advantage.

Dec 17, 2012 at 11:21 PM

fsiagian
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p.1 #11 · Fuji XPro1 vs Nex 5n Comparision Images

Fuji JPEG is the best of those 4.

Dec 17, 2012 at 11:22 PM

aleksanderpolo
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p.1 #12 · Fuji XPro1 vs Nex 5n Comparision Images

The Fuji jpeg seems to have quite some sharpening allied at 0 level, and is almost starting to exhibit the watercolor effect (look at the bricks, do they look like that in real life?), I actually prefer the RPP, looks more natural to my eyes and should sharpen nicely.

Dec 17, 2012 at 11:28 PM

Dudewithoutape
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p.1 #13 · Fuji XPro1 vs Nex 5n Comparision Images

Emacs wrote:
Something is wrong with your "comparison". I guess it's you

Bayer filter provides higher resolution as can easily be seen here:

Blame yourself for your poor skill of PP. No offence, just facts.

Other than a possible personal attack towards the OP, I don't really understand what you're trying to say here. From the JPEG you provided, it looks like they're all NEX5n files?

Dec 18, 2012 at 12:08 AM

mpmendenhall
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p.1 #14 · Fuji XPro1 vs Nex 5n Comparision Images

aleksanderpolo wrote:
The Fuji jpeg seems to have quite some sharpening allied at 0 level, and is almost starting to exhibit the watercolor effect (look at the bricks, do they look like that in real life?), I actually prefer the RPP, looks more natural to my eyes and should sharpen nicely.

The RPP version certainly seems to be pulling out better fine detail, but at the expense of fairly severe color and luminance artifacts (note all the green/magenta edges and "gritty" sky areas between branches not present in the JPEG). The JPEG and Lightroom versions appear to be trading off these sensor artifacts for the "painted" look.

Dec 18, 2012 at 12:27 AM

curious80
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p.1 #15 · Fuji XPro1 vs Nex 5n Comparision Images

Fuji JPEGS do seem to have a higher default sharpness (or maybe they need less sharpening due to lack of AA filter) but they do also seem to have better actual detail in some cases (like the bricks in the 3rd crop). We see the painted/water color effect at some places. However it also seems that the effect appears at levels where the bayer sensor has already hit its resolution limit and is not providing any details anyway. So at least in these examples it seems at least on part with the bayer sensor in terms of detail at all places and slightly better at some other places.

flashinm wrote:
...
The image from the Nex5n was about 1/2 a stop brighter, so Fuji probably overstates their ISO by a half a stop.
...

That may not necessarily be the case. When I was comparing my NEX-5N with my NX200 I found the same result that 5N shots were much brighter at the same exposure. So my initial reaction was the same as yours that NX200 must be overstating its ISO. But then a closer look revealed that in reality actual exposures were about the same and NEX-5N was using a very different tone curve. NEX-5N seemed to have much higher "mid-tone brightness" dialed in. Thats true not just for JPEGS but also for lightroom as lightroom tries to mimic the manufacturer's output in their default conversion. Also as expected the NEX metering system also seemed to incorporate this and consistently suggested less exposure than NX200, further giving the impression of having higher sensitivity.

Dec 18, 2012 at 02:08 AM

douglasf13
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p.1 #16 · Fuji XPro1 vs Nex 5n Comparision Images

Thanks for taking the time to do this. It looks like the 5n draws more detail out of the shrubbery than the X-E1 in Lightroom, the Fuji Jpegs have lots of built-in sharpening and weird smoothing, and the X-E1 in RPP version has tons of artifacts.

If you could make the raws available, it will be easier to get a better understanding of the differences.

Dec 18, 2012 at 02:17 AM

flashinm
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p.1 #17 · Fuji XPro1 vs Nex 5n Comparision Images

douglasf13 wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to do this. It looks like the 5n draws more detail out of the shrubbery than the X-E1 in Lightroom, the Fuji Jpegs have lots of built-in sharpening and weird smoothing, and the X-E1 in RPP version has tons of artifacts.

If you could make the raws available, it will be easier to get a better understanding of the differences.

I'm not sure I agree with the first part. At any rate, the differences are so minor, they are irrelevant. RPP definitely does pull out more detail, but the color artifacts are all over (the Nex/Lightroom combo interestingly produces some color artifacts as well - look at the fence on the third sample). There is definitely some smoothing in the jpeg file, but these are 100% crops. Not sure how much of a difference this would actually make, and most people so far think it looks the best. Anyway, I just hope that this puts to rest the idea that the fuji cameras are somehow disadvantaged at low ISO, and that the inherent lower chroma resolution has any real impact on image quality. I expect even better results with better processing algorithms. Here are the raw files:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/au57nfx85se4bfc/_DSC0785.ARW

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m5aeirtxmiz12cd/_DSF2053.RAF

Dec 18, 2012 at 03:03 AM

_julian_
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p.1 #18 · Fuji XPro1 vs Nex 5n Comparision Images

Thanks for taking the time to do these tests. It reminds me I should be using my Contax G 90 more often!

I don't feel there's much difference between the 5n raw Lightroom and the xpro1 raw Lightroom after allowing for the slight over-exposure of the 5n. This robs some of detail in the highlights (eg. white plastic bags) and desaturates the color.

Comparing signal processing algorithms by comparing at jpegs, is silly because of all the variables - should default settings be used, or should settings be adjusted to match? And we don't have the 5n jpegs as a data point anyway.

Dec 18, 2012 at 03:23 AM

flashinm
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p.1 #19 · Fuji XPro1 vs Nex 5n Comparision Images

curious80 wrote:
However it also seems that the effect appears at levels where the bayer sensor has already hit its resolution limit and is not providing any details anyway.

This is an interesting point. In this sample at least, it appears that is correct. The only places I see some watercolor type look, neither nex/lightroom or fuji/rpp are able to produce any real detail there. It's almost like it hits it's max resolution and most methods round down (not producing any real detail) and fujis jpeg and lightroom's algorithms round up approximating where the detail should be. I'm sure this is way oversimplified, but it makes sense in my head.

Dec 18, 2012 at 03:24 AM

curious80
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p.1 #20 · Fuji XPro1 vs Nex 5n Comparision Images

flashinm wrote:
curious80 wrote:
However it also seems that the effect appears at levels where the bayer sensor has already hit its resolution limit and is not providing any details anyway.

This is an interesting point. In this sample at least, it appears that is correct. The only places I see some watercolor type look, neither nex/lightroom or fuji/rpp are able to produce any real detail there. It's almost like it hits it's max resolution and most methods round down (not producing any real detail) and fujis jpeg and lightroom's algorithms round up approximating where the detail should be. I'm sure this is way oversimplified, but it makes sense in my head.

Yeah I am thinking along similar lines - it is as if instead of moire the Fuji sensor+processing produces a different type of false detail when it hits the resolution limit. Though of course we have only sample to look at here.

Dec 18, 2012 at 03:34 AM

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