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Archive 2012 · Photoshop CS 6 setup
  
 
JimmyStephans
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p.1 #1 · Photoshop CS 6 setup


I built a new Windows 7 system and I'm using Photoshop CS 6 to touch up / prepare images for website viewing (only).

LCD is HP LP2475w profiled today with ColorMunki | Display.

Original images are TIFF RGB 16bit/channel.

My question is - best Photoshop settings - in particular "Proof Setup"

The default upon PS install seems to be "Internet Standard RGB (sRGB)" but the raw images look pretty poor compared to viewing in Windows viewer, ACDsee and others.

If I switch Proof Setup to "Monitor" after profiling they look the same (good) in various programs but will they look poor in browsers if not touched up while set to "Internet Standard RGB (sRGB)"?

Any tips for setting and workflow are much appreciated.

Jimmy




Dec 12, 2012 at 05:38 AM
Eyeball
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p.1 #2 · Photoshop CS 6 setup


I think you may have stumbled upon a bug in CS6. I can't be sure if the bug is new for CS6 or if it existed in previous versions since I have uninstalled the previous versions.

Anyway, the problem is that that soft-proof setting, "Internet Standard RGB (sRGB)" is like a Custom soft-proof with "Preserve RGB numbers" checked on. You almost never want "Preserve RGB numbers" checked on. That shows you what you will get by forcing an X-profiled file onto a Y-profiled device, without doing the necessary profile conversion. As I said, you probably never want to do this except out of pure curiosity.

What I suggest is to do a Custom soft-proof, selecting the sRGB profile (sRGB IEC61966-2.1) and making sure that "Preserve RGB Numbers" is NOT checked. That will give you a good idea of what you will get as an sRGB-profiled image file, which is what you should be using for web display if your interest is the widest audience possible. This custom setting will also allow you to use View>Gamut warning to see what parts of the image will be clipped during the conversion to sRGB.

Here are some additional tips:
- You don't mention what working colorspace you are using in Photoshop (Edit>Color Settings) nor what the colorspace is for your TIFF originals. If those images are already in sRGB, then the soft-proofing won't get you anything since they are already sRGB.
- Even if the source images are in a larger colorspace like AdobeRGB or ProPhoto, you may not see a big difference when soft-proofing as I suggested above unless the image has highly saturated color.
- When using View>Gamut warning, be aware that it is showing you all pixels that are out of gamut for the target colorspace (in this case, sRGB). It DOESN'T tell you how FAR out of gamut those pixels are. In many cases, the amount that the pixels are out of gamut is very small and not noticeable for general viewing. You can use both the Gamut warning and just visual inspection of the soft-proofing on and off to get a feel for this.
- The important thing is to make sure that your output images are converted to sRGB. You can either let "Save for Web" do that for you or you can manually do an Edit>Convert to Profile (NOT Assign).
- I also recommend that you embed the profile/colorspace (In this case, sRGB) into the output file. Most browsers will assume sRGB if there is no embedded profile but some (like Safari) will use monitor/no color management. If you embed the sRGB profile, all browsers should display the image properly as sRGB. Having the profile embedded also helps debug profile mistakes like for example if you forget and leave an image in AdobeRGB.



Dec 12, 2012 at 03:01 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #3 · Photoshop CS 6 setup


You don't need any proof setup at all. Just make sure your images are in sRGB for web viewing and they will automatically view properly. They look different in your other programs because those applications are not color managed and you have a wide gamut screen. Even though you *think* they look better in your other programs, Ps is actually showing you a more accurate rendering. You can't believe your eyes, particularly when viewing in a non color managed environment.


Dec 12, 2012 at 04:47 PM
JimmyStephans
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p.1 #4 · Photoshop CS 6 setup


Eyeball & Peter,

Thanks for the help. I'll back up just a tiny bit to fill in missing information.

Images are TIFF RGB 16bit/channel. sRGB profile embedded during RAW conversion.

I'm setting up CS 6 on a new Windows 7 machine (jump from XP / PS CS2).

System profiled with ColorMunki | Display and seems great.

I'll play with it a bit more today and update later.

Thanks






Dec 12, 2012 at 06:16 PM
Eyeball
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p.1 #5 · Photoshop CS 6 setup


JimmyStephans wrote:
Images are TIFF RGB 16bit/channel. sRGB profile embedded during RAW conversion.


If you are bringing the images into PS as sRGB from your raw conversion and your working space is also sRGB (as seen in Edit>Color Settings...Working Spaces...RGB), then there is no need to be messing around with soft-proofing for web sRGB output. You are maintaining a single colorspace work flow from begin (raw) to end (web; jpeg, I assume).



Dec 12, 2012 at 07:19 PM
JimmyStephans
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p.1 #6 · Photoshop CS 6 setup


Back Again...

Yes, that is what I am doing. RAW to sRGB TIFF / 16bit/channel. That then goes into PS

This is where things falls apart. During the RAW conversion process I make adjustments and the images look good.

I have used both Canon PP (Windows 7) and BreezeBrowser (on XP) for RAW conversions. Images are from 1Ds MK-II

They look horrible on the new computer in CS6 with these settings. Huge difference between whats on screen in RAW converter(s) and what is in CS6



However, if I open the same image on the older XP machine with CS or CS2 I don't seem to have any difference between what I see in RAW converter and what I see in Photoshop.

Clearly, I have something set wrong on the new system. Can't figure it out.

Photoshop CS on XP System.



Both systems have same LCD. XP profiled with ColorEyes, but last done many weeks ago as system was meant to be out of service. Win7 system profiled yesterday with ColorMunki | Display

Somehow what i see in RAW conversion is lost when opened in CS6 on Win7 machine.




Dec 13, 2012 at 02:55 AM
Eyeball
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p.1 #7 · Photoshop CS 6 setup


So these particular images are from DPP?
Do you have DPP set to use your monitor profile - the one you created with the ColorMunki?
Are you sure that DPP is set correctly to output the TIFF in sRGB?
Is DPP embedding the sRGB profile in the TIFF? (You might want to put the checkmark in the "Missing Profiles" box of your PS settings.



Dec 13, 2012 at 03:18 AM
JimmyStephans
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p.1 #8 · Photoshop CS 6 setup


Yes, images are from DPP.

Workspace and Color Match settings are both sRGB - so no, DPP is not set to that profile. Should it be?

Yes it seems to be set correctly to output.

Yes the profile is there when going to "File Info" in CS6 I see:

photoshop:ICCProfile: sRGB v1.31 (Canon)

SIDEBAR: I just tested the trial version of DXO RAW converter (link to them on main page here). Same issue. Use that software to make minor adjustments in RAW but following TIFF doesn't look near the same in CS6.






Dec 13, 2012 at 04:01 AM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #9 · Photoshop CS 6 setup


It's probably not germane to this conversation, but one thing I always avoid is to have the software automatically convert any incoming RGB file to your current working space. I would change that to Preserve Embedded Profiles on everything and would not have CM Policies set to Off for anything.

In DPP, and it's been a while since I used that one, converts the output file on output from the internally used RGB camera profile to whatever working space you choose in the output parameters. There's no real difference between Canon sRGB and the Adobe version.



Dec 13, 2012 at 05:05 AM
Eyeball
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p.1 #10 · Photoshop CS 6 setup


Your color matching settings in DPP should be set to Operating System, as shown here:







That will make DPP use the monitor profile that you created with your calibration/profiling hardware and software for displaying the image on your monitor. When you have this parameter set to sRGB, you are forcing DPP to use a generic sRGB profile for your wide-gamut monitor and it is going to cause DPP to show you more saturated colors than are really there in the image.

Photoshop and Lightroom do not have a similar setting since those programs ALWAYS use the active monitor profile of the operating system.

By the way, why not just use Adobe Camera Raw inside CS6 to do your raw conversions? Seems like it would make your work flow a lot easier.




Dec 13, 2012 at 02:38 PM
 

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JimmyStephans
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p.1 #11 · Photoshop CS 6 setup


Hi Guys - just got to office and will test this today. makes sense to me... but another guy is using that system for a project right now.

I'll also play with Camera RAW. I never had it on the old XP system and got in the habit of using other products.

Update this post in the late afternoon.



Dec 13, 2012 at 05:36 PM
JimmyStephans
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p.1 #12 · Photoshop CS 6 setup


Update...

I updated DPP, and made the adjustment you mentioned, and thus far it seems better.

Thanks!




Dec 14, 2012 at 01:13 AM
Eyeball
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p.1 #13 · Photoshop CS 6 setup


I hope that works for you. With that setting in DPP, DPP and PS should be virtually identical for the same file.


Dec 14, 2012 at 01:56 AM
JimmyStephans
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p.1 #14 · Photoshop CS 6 setup


I'm bumping this thread because I clearly have something wrong in my workflow or settings.

See this screenshot...

Image adjusted a bit in PS, then using the SAVE FOR WEB option is get the original on left (TIFF) and it has picked up a huge color shift, and the JPEG is different.

Things are so inconsistent its driving me nuts. This same image can be closed in PS, opened back up and will look slightly different.



Super Confused...

When opened in a browser the image appears red (like the "original" on left), but PS shows it (on right) without the red tint when a JPEG.




Dec 19, 2012 at 07:30 AM
JimmyStephans
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p.1 #15 · Photoshop CS 6 setup


Crop of the image after its been saved.



Way Red....

It doesn't even come close to what PS is showing in the preview panel.

I simply can't understand how to prepare images for decent display on websites IF the color shifts are so radical and inconsistent.



Dec 19, 2012 at 07:41 AM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #16 · Photoshop CS 6 setup


Did you size your screen shot down. I can't read it and I want to see if you're embedding the profile while in Save for Web or leaving it untagged. My gut feeling is that it's untagged and you're viewing in a non color managed browser with a wide gamut screen. That would explain everything. Nothing wrong with Ps at all. Just need to understand how digital color works with and without color management and embedded vs. non embedded files.

You need to use sRGB like you're doing, but you also need to embed (tag) the profile in the file and finally you absolutely need to use a browser that has color management and make sure it's activated. On a PC, that means IE9, Safari, or Firefox. Chrome, unfortunately, is not color managed, and who know if or when it might be.



Dec 19, 2012 at 08:16 AM
JimmyStephans
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p.1 #17 · Photoshop CS 6 setup


Thanks..

Yes, it is checked.

Convert to sRGB is also checked and the PREVIEW drop down under that option is set to: Internet Standard RGB.

Is there something else I should be checking?




Dec 19, 2012 at 08:22 AM
Eyeball
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p.1 #18 · Photoshop CS 6 setup


According to your screen image, you are doing the conversion to Jpeg correctly. If you are actually saving the Jpeg that way and then viewing it with a color-managed browser, you should see the image the same as the "optimized" pane of the preview (which should be very close to what you are seeing inside Photoshop proper while working on the image).

One of two things is likely happening, assuming you are actually saving the file as indicated by your screen image:
- Somewhere along the way between saving the file (with the embedded sRGB profile) and viewing the file in your browser, the profile is being stripped from the file. Some photo-hosting sites will do this. (As a side note, your posted crop has no embedded profile so I'm not sure how you created it).
- The other possibility is that you are not using a color-managed browser on your wide-gamut monitor. Please tell us what browser you are using. To date, I believe that Firefox and Safari are still the only browsers that are fully color-managed. (also, Safari does not color-manage images with missing profiles; Firefox will color-manage images with missing profiles, assuming them to be sRGB, if its preferences are set to do that).

With that out of the way, I want to go back and explain what you are seeing in the 2-up view of the Save-for-web window:

When using Save-for-Web in the 2-up mode, both the "original" pane and the "optimized" pane will show you the image based on the preview option you have set and this preview option can be set differently for each pane. In your screen image, your optimized preview is set to Internet Standard (which is OK to an extent; more later) but your original pane is probably set for something other than "Use document profile". I don't know for sure because you have to click on the "original" pane to see what the setting is for that pane. The "original" looks "bad" because the original preview is showing you your image in the working color space without converting it properly for your monitor. In order for that preview to look "good", you need to set the preview option FOR THAT PANE to "Use Document Profile".

Now here are some quick and dirty explanations for the Preview Options. Don't let this explanation confuse you. The critical points are up above.

- First, keep in mind that these options affect the "preview" ONLY. They do not impact AT ALL the image file that will actually be generated. If you have "convert to sRGB" checked and "embed color profile" checked, you will get a Jpeg with an embedded sRGB profile NO MATTER WHAT THE PREVIEW OPTION IS SET TO.

- "Use Document Profile" is normally a good preview option to use when you are embedding the color profile in the file. It will simulate viewing the image in a color-managed application that reads and properly interprets the embedded color profile.

- "Internet Standard" TRIES to show you what someone will see if they view the image in a non-color-managed application. sRGB will be assumed (or something close to it) and the embedded profile will be ignored. This means that if you are using a non-sRGB image and NOT checking "convert to sRGB", this preview will look wrong since proper color-management is not being done to convert from the other colorspace to sRGB.

- "Legacy Macintosh" is like Internet Standard but using a different gamma that used to be common for Macintosh display set-ups.

- "Monitor Color" displays the image using your monitor profile without colorspace conversion.

- On your wide-gamut monitor, all preview options except "Use Document Profile" will probably look "wrong".

Once all this sinks in you may get to the following insight:

People who view my images on wide-gamut monitors and who don't use color-managed browsers will see my images "wrong".

This insight is absolutely correct BUT THAT IS THEIR PROBLEM. The only thing you can do is to put out a properly profiled image and embed that profile. From there on out it is the viewer's responsibility to set-up their system properly. The only additional thing you can do to help the great majority of viewers is to use sRGB. Most viewers still don't use wide-gamut monitors so sRGB will allow them to see your images more-or-less like you intended, even if they are not using a color-managed browser. Again, there is nothing you can do if someone has their screen set to maximum brightness with the saturation turned up.



Dec 19, 2012 at 01:26 PM
Mr Mouse
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p.1 #19 · Photoshop CS 6 setup


JimmyStephans wrote:
Super Confused...


Me too your screen capture is scale so small it can not be read and is saved with a color profile sRGB. While your next append of your crop final image is saved without a profile so its impossible to know what color space it may have been edited in. Post original image you have not messed with.

For I do not know how I should open you image in Photoshop?







Dec 19, 2012 at 02:09 PM
JimmyStephans
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p.1 #20 · Photoshop CS 6 setup


Darn Good Info!

That last crop was done quickly in ACDsee. I guess that strips the profile.

I'll try to find an image today we can work with. All the stuff I am working with now is models in tiny bikinies or lingerie and I don't want to offend anybody here. But, I'll find something neutral to play with and detail my workflow step by step.



Dec 19, 2012 at 09:03 PM





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