Diado Moriyama shooting jpg with a P&S

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RustyBug
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p.15 #1 · Diado Moriyama shooting jpg with a P&S

kosmoskatten .. thanks, I really appreciate that.

But, I'd still suggest that Exdsc has potential contained in the work he has produced. It is his refinement and voice that (my opinion) are holding him back (to whatever degree one believes). But that is probably true of 99.999% of us. Heck, I'd like to think I've got potential too ... someday.

Ours is a labor of love and perpetual refinement and finding our own voice ... which, imo ... it is Daido's voice, or maybe his "search for his voice" that has resonated so strongly with so many, even if I didn't speak his language.

Dec 10, 2012 at 05:10 PM

Bifurcator
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p.15 #2 · Diado Moriyama shooting jpg with a P&S

RustyBug wrote:
Thanks Bif,

Yeah ... I'm pretty lucky that way.

I like the shot with the nipple! Nipples, yeah buddy!

kosmoskatten wrote:
Bif; while we are on a love streak; I really like your avatar.

Thanks!

Dec 10, 2012 at 05:19 PM

RustyBug
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p.15 #3 · Diado Moriyama shooting jpg with a P&S

Bifurcator wrote:

I like the shot with the nipple! Nipples, yeah buddy!

Sorry ... can't take credit for that one.

Disclaimer:
Many of my uploads are reworks of others images ... who have asked for input / opinion in the Photo Critique Forum, or similar. In fact, (currently) the ONLY image on "My Uploads, Page 1" that is mine, is the "Aligned" ... all others are part of processing / composition / color dialogues being shared with other FM members and THEIR images.

In case you might be wondering why so many of others, so few of mine ... helping others work through their requested challenges (better, worse or no help), helps improve my ability to consider my own challenges contained within our craft. Participating in such with other FM'ers is an "Iron Sharpens Iron" kind of thing for me, imo.

Edited on Dec 10, 2012 at 05:44 PM · View previous versions

Dec 10, 2012 at 05:32 PM

Bifurcator
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p.15 #4 · Diado Moriyama shooting jpg with a P&S

Ah, k... My bad.

Dec 10, 2012 at 05:40 PM

RustyBug
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p.15 #5 · Diado Moriyama shooting jpg with a P&S

Bifurcator wrote:
Ah, k... My bad.

No worries, we're good.

kosmoskatten wrote:
Bif; while we are on a love streak; I really like your avatar.

It's an "interpretive" self portrait of the professor in action.

Dec 10, 2012 at 05:49 PM

artd
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p.15 #6 · Diado Moriyama shooting jpg with a P&S

kosmoskatten wrote:
artd: the debate is sometimes inevitable.

I can agree that dialing down the tone when it comes to critique is the civil way to go. For the most part I prefer when people are more elaborate in their critique. Sometimes however, when people pay an exorbitant amount of due to an artist and telling me how important he is (or has been) for photography and art in general I can choose to agree or disagree.

I can even choose to agree even though I am not overly fond of the work myself.

In a few instances there are artists who I perhaps don't get or just find their work so terribly boring or bad that I can only reduce my critique to a single word: crap.

Well, I think there comes a point at which a critique becomes interpretted as not a critique, but as a thoughtless dismissal. The point at which that happens may be a very fuzzy line, but I think when we start using single-word descriptors it's easy to view that line as being crossed.

I can dress it up and say: I am sorry, I don't see the quality in this, to me this is just pure crap and an insult to other artists. Sometimes a name weighs in more heavy than the work and I find that very crippling for art. Judge someone by their work and not (only) their track record or history. If you happen to be a public artist I still feel I can tell people I think it is pure crap rather than hold my tongue or just wrap it in "nice words".

Right, but that's where the problem comes in. It's not so much about wrapping it in "nice words." More about creating a perception that you are quickly dismissive of something and unwilling to consider why other people do find the work worthwhile. (Note, I am not saying that necessarily is the case. I am saying that is the perception that is created.)

I could of course say: "what is it that you like so much about this work? To me this is mediocre at best, and not on par with what I would see on a generic Fl*ckr page even".

A fair statement (and similar to what I actually thought myself).

People sometimes subject themselves to self mockery - and indication of being at ease with themselves and that is a bandwagon I often jump on. Poking fun is fun - if all parties are game.

True. Though sometimes it's hard on the Internet to tell the difference between poking fun and snarky ridicule. (Heck, I have that problem in real life conversations

)

Dec 10, 2012 at 06:26 PM

Exdsc
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p.15 #7 · Diado Moriyama shooting jpg with a P&S

carstenw wrote:
http://500px.com/CarstenW

http://whimster-photography.com/

I finally had the time to click on those links and all I have to say is, nice candy colors...

Work on the contrast when it comes to B&W...

And of course a photo is as interesting as its subject matter -- door knobs are never photogenic...

Dec 10, 2012 at 06:53 PM

RustyBug
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p.15 #8 · Diado Moriyama shooting jpg with a P&S

Exdsc wrote:door knobs are never photogenic...

Till Daido or Eggleston photographs one ... or it opens the door to a pink bathtub

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Does it get any more photogenic if you put a twist on it?

"Twisted Knob" ... cover shot for an alternative rock group.
(Okay, BS Meter is officially pegged.)

Edited on Dec 10, 2012 at 07:36 PM · View previous versions

Dec 10, 2012 at 07:05 PM

carstenw
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p.15 #9 · Diado Moriyama shooting jpg with a P&S

Dec 10, 2012 at 07:13 PM

Bifurcator
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p.15 #10 · Diado Moriyama shooting jpg with a P&S

artd wrote:
Let's not get off track on straw man arguments. I would prefer to talk about the actual issue I brought up. There seems to be a consensus that when people make snarky and dismissive remarks directly at other forum members, that's not appropriate. So when people make snarky and dismissive remarks about artists not on this forum, why is that ok? If someone expresses admiration for an artist, and somone else responds by ridiculing that artist, why is that cool?

carstenw wrote:
It's hardly a straw man argument, it is what you wrote. If you say that isn't what you meant, fine, but it is still what you wrote.

And WTH, this thread is Ex's and he said the topic was Daido (sic) and related offshoots of that kind of photographic style - not some BS issue that you "brought up" off topically about how you think people should act.

Sorry, just saying...

Dec 10, 2012 at 08:25 PM

artd
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p.15 #11 · Diado Moriyama shooting jpg with a P&S

Bifurcator wrote:
artd wrote:
Let's not get off track on straw man arguments. I would prefer to talk about the actual issue I brought up. There seems to be a consensus that when people make snarky and dismissive remarks directly at other forum members, that's not appropriate. So when people make snarky and dismissive remarks about artists not on this forum, why is that ok? If someone expresses admiration for an artist, and somone else responds by ridiculing that artist, why is that cool?

carstenw wrote:
It's hardly a straw man argument, it is what you wrote. If you say that isn't what you meant, fine, but it is still what you wrote.

You didn't actually respond to the point I was making. You took what I wrote meant to be taken as a single thought and split it into seperate thoughts in order to exagerrate specific phrases and argue against those. You made the case that I was talking about disliking someone's opinion when in fact I was talking about how remarks perceived as dismissive, while amusing to some, have the unfortunate side effect of tanking forum discussions.

And WTH, this thread is Ex's and he said the topic was Daido (sic) and related offshoots of that kind of photographic style - not some BS issue that you "brought up" off topically about how you think people should act.

The issue I brought up was that whenever a famous artist is brought up in a thread--which was Diado in this thread, along with others mentioned tangentially--there are usually posts made that appear to serve little purpose other than to ridicule that artist, and those types of posts are counterproductive to a discussion of the art itself and whether or not it has value. I do find that to be a topical point. If you disagree with that, then let me know why.

Dec 10, 2012 at 09:09 PM

Bifurcator
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p.15 #12 · Diado Moriyama shooting jpg with a P&S

Like I said...

Dec 10, 2012 at 09:19 PM

carstenw
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p.15 #13 · Diado Moriyama shooting jpg with a P&S

artd wrote:
carstenw wrote:
It's hardly a straw man argument, it is what you wrote. If you say that isn't what you meant, fine, but it is still what you wrote.

You didn't actually respond to the point I was making.

It isn't a point I am interested in arguing about. I try not to do it myself, but I don't want to be a web cop. If Henrik or anyone else calls something crap, I just translate it in my mind to knowing that he doesn't respect it. The community and mutual respect here is far more important to me than what words people use. When you start discussing how people "should" talk, that gets to me much faster, because I know you don't contribute here on a regular basis. Why do you try to tell a bunch of people you don't know and don't associate with how to act?

Dec 10, 2012 at 10:50 PM

helimat
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p.15 #14 · Diado Moriyama shooting jpg with a P&S

Exdsc wrote:
carstenw wrote:
http://500px.com/CarstenW

http://whimster-photography.com/

I finally had the time to click on those links and all I have to say is, nice candy colors...

Work on the contrast when it comes to B&W...

And of course a photo is as interesting as its subject matter -- door knobs are never photogenic...

Ha ha. I have quietly followed this thread, but this is too much. What on earth makes you think Carsten wants or needs your advice?

Dec 11, 2012 at 01:15 AM

carstenw
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p.15 #15 · Diado Moriyama shooting jpg with a P&S

helimat wrote:
Exdsc wrote:
carstenw wrote:
http://500px.com/CarstenW

http://whimster-photography.com/

I finally had the time to click on those links and all I have to say is, nice candy colors...

Work on the contrast when it comes to B&W...

And of course a photo is as interesting as its subject matter -- door knobs are never photogenic...

Ha ha. I have quietly followed this thread, but this is too much. What on earth makes you think Carsten wants or needs your advice?

That's funny, I missed that, having long ago hidden him. Most of my stuff has natural colours, except my HDR work of course, and my B&W work is actually film

Dec 11, 2012 at 05:38 AM

redisburning
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p.15 #16 · Diado Moriyama shooting jpg with a P&S

I take back everything I said about people being unfair to Exdsc.

By all means, he/she deserves it at this point.

Anyway, you should feel flattered Carsten. Anytime someone has nothing to say about my work other than insulting me I take that as the highest compliment. It means they recognize it's good and have no way to say something negative other than to make it either about you or something ridiculous such as an intentional stylistic choice that they choose arbitrarily or a non-traditional subject matter.

Does anyone want to talk about Daido again? I'd rather have it out with people over the quality of his recent work than fall back into this vindictiveness.

I still think Daido really captured the Japan of the 1970s with his pictures. They have the soul of that era embodied in them and I think in this way they are as great a success as The Americans and Capa's images of the Wars. While the material is probably of lesser historical importance (though this is from my Western perspective), I do not personally feel this diminishes it's success as an overview of this specific time and place. I do feel when I look at his very best work everything that went into them and part of that is getting a taste of what it must have been like at the time.

As I contrast this to his modern work, I feel like Daido must be forcing things as he tries to see Japan in the same way that it was during the formative years of his photographic career, especially the early years he worked in the newspapers. Unfortunately, I do not think that he has adapted to a changing world and country in his perspective and as photography can be a deeply personal exercise the results of that are kind of obvious and it makes his work seem also-ran and simply lacking in the level of technical skill we expect from modern work.

Dec 11, 2012 at 06:19 AM

carstenw
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p.15 #17 · Diado Moriyama shooting jpg with a P&S

The sad thing is that Exdsc is apparently in his 50s. I was so sure he was a teenager.

Anyway, I do like some of Moriyama's work, even some of the current stuff, although I am not blown away by it. There is a certain grittiness and introspection there which I like. I am not familiar with his earlier work, but will look into it the next time I come across some.

Dec 11, 2012 at 07:32 AM

artd
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p.15 #18 · Diado Moriyama shooting jpg with a P&S

carstenw wrote:
artd wrote:
carstenw wrote:
It's hardly a straw man argument, it is what you wrote. If you say that isn't what you meant, fine, but it is still what you wrote.

You didn't actually respond to the point I was making.

It isn't a point I am interested in arguing about. I try not to do it myself, but I don't want to be a web cop. If Henrik or anyone else calls something crap, I just translate it in my mind to knowing that he doesn't respect it. The community and mutual respect here is far more important to me than what words people use. When you start discussing how people "should" talk, that gets to me much faster, because I know you don't contribute here on a regular basis. Why do you try to tell a bunch of people you don't know and don't associate with how to act?
So since you don't want to discuss the point I am trying to make you would rather argue about a point I am not trying to make? I have not told anyone how to act. I made an observation which I believe is relevant. When people act dismissive, that is counterproductive to the discussion at hand, whether they are dismissive of a forum member or of an artist they advocate. Are you actually telling me that I am out of line, because I have pointed that out? If you indeed value an atmosphere of mutual respect, why do you take issue with me pointing out something that interferes with that?

Dec 11, 2012 at 07:54 AM

carstenw
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p.15 #19 · Diado Moriyama shooting jpg with a P&S

artd wrote:
So since you don't want to discuss the point I am trying to make you would rather argue about a point I am not trying to make?

I am just answering your question. I am not interested in discussing either of these points, to be honest. Can we drop it here?

Dec 11, 2012 at 10:02 AM

kosmoskatten
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p.15 #20 · Diado Moriyama shooting jpg with a P&S

"redisburning wrote:
As I contrast this to his modern work, I feel like Daido must be forcing things as he tries to see Japan in the same way that it was during the formative years of his photographic career, especially the early years he worked in the newspapers. Unfortunately, I do not think that he has adapted to a changing world and country in his perspective and as photography can be a deeply personal exercise the results of that are kind of obvious and it makes his work seem also-ran and simply lacking in the level of technical skill we expect from modern work."

+1 Thank you for conveying my take on his recent work.

I am going to take my time and have a look at his older work, I am sure I can appreciate it more.

Dec 11, 2012 at 11:09 AM

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