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Archive 2012 · I was just looking at a D800 vs a MF 40MP shot I have on ...
  
 
roman.johnston
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · I was just looking at a D800 vs a MF 40MP shot I have on file


Not posting anything here, but there is a difference...
40MP hassy shot of the falls at the Japanese Gardens
36 D800 shot of the same falls.

When I get my own D800 (Took my shot with someone else's camera)
I will try and capture the exact same shot so I am comparing apples to apples.

I shot both as different focal lengths. So its not an apples to apples comparison.

But here are the details that impressed me.

Hassy shot is wider so I have to zoom a bit more in to get the same area in my side by side comparison. (View at 66% vs 33% for D800) and the Hassy file STILL has more details. D800 was using my 24-70 lens...so was a quality lens, but not as nice as the prime hassy lens.

The Hassy file had more believable detail.....more of a 3D micro-contrast. We are dealing with 16bit true file vs. 14bit Nikon as well...so that would definitely help with the transitions between dark and light we use for visual clues in human vision . People say you cant see a difference between 16 bit files and 14bit....but I think that is part of the magic of the hassy files.

In the end...still pining for a MF system. But going to be happy with my new D800 soon.

Roman



Dec 02, 2012 at 03:36 AM
Mescalamba
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · I was just looking at a D800 vs a MF 40MP shot I have on file


I think you are kinda underestimating Hassy lens. Not sure which one you have, but if its Zeiss, its two or three leagues above 24-70mm. And if its Zeiss, you would have hard time finding something like that for D800 (tho few Zeiss or Leica lens might do).

Then it has bigger sensor, physically bigger and that always helps with resolution (when mpix count is similar).

Hassy doesnt have AA, D800 does, even D800E does (even tho its two layers set to counter-effect each other, but its still there). That itself helps micro-contrast, not mentioning if its Zeiss lens..

16 vs 14bit is quite big difference, when RAW is properly developed. And then there issue with 14bits from most cams not being exactly 14bits. Only regular dSLR that really does have 14bits and is from Nikon is D3X. There its quite visible. Hassy on other hand really does have 16bits. So difference should be quite clearly visible.

D800 compared to MF is something like NEX-7 compared to D3X. Yes, pixel count is same, but sensor size does matter and that "other" stuff around too. As NEX-7, D800 wasnt made to replace MF, just to give option of high-res camera which is both lighter and easier to operate. Kinda like Leica S2 or Pentax 645D.

Only dSLR that actually can rival MF is Sigma SD1M. But with hundreds of "if". In the end it is about same level, but its even less convenient to use than Hassy.



Dec 02, 2012 at 04:00 AM
mshi
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · I was just looking at a D800 vs a MF 40MP shot I have on file


If pixel count really mattered, Nokia's cellphone with 60MP camera would have replaced Hassy 40MP or Nikon D800. I posted here that D800 can't compete with H4D-40 in IQ department when I first got D800 back in March. But that got me into trouble with fan boys.


Dec 02, 2012 at 04:12 AM
Mescalamba
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · I was just looking at a D800 vs a MF 40MP shot I have on file


mshi wrote:
If pixel count really mattered, Nokia's cellphone with 60MP camera would have replaced Hassy 40MP or Nikon D800.


Its Nokia N808 and it has 41 mpix. But you are right, its not about mpix.

I just wish someone made really big sensor with not so much mpix. :/ 6x7 with 20-30 mpix sounds about right..



Dec 02, 2012 at 04:16 AM
jared_irl
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · I was just looking at a D800 vs a MF 40MP shot I have on file


the simple fact that they're close enough to compare speaks volumes of the D800.

I have a Hassey 503CWD that has become a mantle piece since I got the D800. It's pretty amazing. My current favorite combo is the 85mm 1.4G along with it. Craziness.




Dec 02, 2012 at 05:47 AM
Graham Mitchell
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · I was just looking at a D800 vs a MF 40MP shot I have on file


I have compared my Leaf Aptus II 12 80 megapixel back on Hy6 camera with the D800. These are VERY different animals.

The Leaf resolution is in a different league, but more due to the fantastic Rollei lenses. Not only are the Rollei lenses a lot sharper wide open, but looking at the Nikon 85 f1.4G, for example, the Nikon has loads of purple fringing, softness and other problems which I simply never saw in the medium format files. If that's Nikon's best 85mm then I'm not impressed. Disappointing. Of course, if you are not blowing the files up much, this isn't going to matter much.

The D800 viewfinder is rubbish compared to the Hy6. Again, you can't even compare. One of the worst features of the D800, if you ask me.

Flash sync is higher on the Hy6. Frame rate is higher on the D800.

The D800 is in a different league at high ISO. And the camera is generally more easy to wield, which allows for greater spontaneity. The D800 is MUCH cheaper too, which can't be ignored.

The AF is about the same speed on both cameras, which is impressive for the hy6 and not as good as expected on the D800.




Dec 02, 2012 at 06:59 AM
Keith B.
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · I was just looking at a D800 vs a MF 40MP shot I have on file


Graham Mitchell wrote:
The D800 viewfinder is rubbish compared to the Hy6. Again, you can't even compare. One of the worst features of the D800, if you ask me.


+1 on the D800 finder. This is why I'm planning to eventually sell off my D800E in favor of a possible/probable "D4X" which hopefully will appear in the next year or so.




Dec 02, 2012 at 09:49 AM
jared_irl
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · I was just looking at a D800 vs a MF 40MP shot I have on file


What's that, 45000 worth of gear compared to 4500?? I'd say there had better be some justification of cost. Is there enough difference to justify 10x the cost? Not for my purposes.

I'm not sure where you are getting purple fringing or softness. My copy of the lens only exhibits chromatic aberration in extremely high contrast areas or where I miss focus. I guess I could see you getting both symptoms if your lens was out of calibration.

What is it you guys don't like about the viewfinder? It's very good in comparison to its dslr competitors, and I'm sure your complaint here extends to all body's of this format, not just the 800.

But yes, an 80mp medium format camera and a 36mp dslr are definitely going to be different animals.



Dec 02, 2012 at 01:16 PM
roman.johnston
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · I was just looking at a D800 vs a MF 40MP shot I have on file


Yeah....I have never gotten people and the viewfinder comments. It has never been more than a rectangle that I have to fill with a composition. I guess if I put some of the cameras I have owned side by side I would see what everyone is talking about, but that comment often has me scratching my head. If I can see what I am looking at.....viewfinder job done.

Roman



Dec 02, 2012 at 04:56 PM
lukeb
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · I was just looking at a D800 vs a MF 40MP shot I have on file


jared_irl wrote:
What's that, 45000 worth of gear compared to 4500?? I'd say there had better be some justification of cost. Is there enough difference to justify 10x the cost? Not for my purposes.

But yes, an 80mp medium format camera and a 36mp dslr are definitely going to be different animals.


+ 1



Dec 02, 2012 at 05:12 PM
 

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Ben Horne
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · I was just looking at a D800 vs a MF 40MP shot I have on file


roman.johnston wrote:
Not posting anything here, but there is a difference...
40MP hassy shot of the falls at the Japanese Gardens
36 D800 shot of the same falls.

When I get my own D800 (Took my shot with someone else's camera)
I will try and capture the exact same shot so I am comparing apples to apples.

I shot both as different focal lengths. So its not an apples to apples comparison.

But here are the details that impressed me.

Hassy shot is wider so I have to zoom a bit more in to get the same area in my side by side comparison. (View at 66% vs 33%
...Show more

Imagine how it would look on 8x10 color neg film. :-) My $20 sheet of film will blow away the Hassy that costs as much as a quality car.



Dec 02, 2012 at 05:15 PM
Todd Warnke
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · I was just looking at a D800 vs a MF 40MP shot I have on file


+1 for Ben.


Dec 02, 2012 at 05:51 PM
Dustin Gent
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · I was just looking at a D800 vs a MF 40MP shot I have on file



Ben Horne wrote:
Imagine how it would look on 8x10 color neg film. :-) My $20 sheet of film will blow away the Hassy that costs as much as a quality car.


After looking at the results I got with just my simple F5 + Reala 35mm combo, I am kinda itching to go LF. I just don't know enough about the format I guess...



Dec 02, 2012 at 06:05 PM
iseeq4life
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · I was just looking at a D800 vs a MF 40MP shot I have on file


How do you see the difference between 14 or 16 bits files when the monitor only has 10 bits of (wide gamut) color space?

Those 14 or 16 bits must refer to something else other than color space?



Dec 02, 2012 at 06:24 PM
roman.johnston
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · I was just looking at a D800 vs a MF 40MP shot I have on file


Ben Horne wrote:
Imagine how it would look on 8x10 color neg film. :-) My $20 sheet of film will blow away the Hassy that costs as much as a quality car.


Yeah....and I would never give up digital. Once the gear is paid for I can shoot as much as I like without other costs...and more importantly I like to confirm I got everything perfect before I leave the scene....

Why? Because that moment in time will never happen again. Small adjustments in the field are invaluable.

Now give me a scan back for that large format and I might be convinced. But I will never go back to film.

Roman



Dec 02, 2012 at 07:32 PM
zesto
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · I was just looking at a D800 vs a MF 40MP shot I have on file


Keith B. wrote:
+1 on the D800 finder. This is why I'm planning to eventually sell off my D800E in favor of a possible/probable "D4X" which hopefully will appear in the next year or so.



I can't see any difference in the VF of my D3 and D800E, therefore I wouldn't expect to see a difference between the D800 and D4x (if it eventuates).




Dec 02, 2012 at 07:42 PM
Mescalamba
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · I was just looking at a D800 vs a MF 40MP shot I have on file


zesto wrote:
I can't see any difference in the VF of my D3 and D800E, therefore I wouldn't expect to see a difference between the D800 and D4x (if it eventuates).



There isnt much difference, tho D4 seemed a bit brighter. But if you check another brand, then there is difference. A900 or 1DsMK3 are quite visible bigger and brighter (actually more of that second).

Ofc neither of these can match MF OVF. Thats like difference between peephole and window (ok, small window.. ).



Dec 02, 2012 at 10:26 PM
woos
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · I was just looking at a D800 vs a MF 40MP shot I have on file


*whistles innocently*. You know those 16-bit raw files aren't really 16-bit, right...*whistles innocently*. They just add 2 unused marketing bits. So sure, the file format is 16-bit...but in reality, the raw data inside is 14-bit. ;-)

Rumor is that the Leica DMR actually had true 16-bit raws (but not relevant, anything over 12 bits was probably pointless for that sensor). Edit: supposedly the S2 has 16-bit raw, as well. If that's true, who knows. If it IS true, it's sort of like the Canon 14-bit raw...pointless for the sensor. The extra bits will gain you nothing as they will be indistinguishable from noise. =p



Dec 02, 2012 at 11:01 PM
roman.johnston
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · I was just looking at a D800 vs a MF 40MP shot I have on file


I see the difference in skies easily. It is why I only shoot in 14bit. Transitions are much nicer. And I have played with enough MF files to know that the highlights are amazingly smooth...even more than from my D300.

Roman



Dec 02, 2012 at 11:37 PM
mshi
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · I was just looking at a D800 vs a MF 40MP shot I have on file


Here is a 40MP (H4D-40) raw test shot that was converted to tiff using only default settings in Phocus, Hassel's raw converter.

100% crop jpeg:







tiff:
http://dl.dropbox.com/s/ymqyp31vgvwg6y3/Job_0004.tif

Edited on Dec 03, 2012 at 01:25 AM · View previous versions



Dec 03, 2012 at 12:33 AM
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