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tdurnan Offline • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #1 · State of affairs Haven't been around much lately, but have gone for a 3 week cruise through the Forum. There seems to have been a change up here and I'm sure some will agree and others will disagree..and both are ok. What concerns me the most is the sensoring of the artistic expression that was such an important part of what has made this Forum so great to be a part of for so long. As a photography forum we should expect to see images that we enjoy, hate, don't understand, dislike, react emotionally to (both good and bad). It is part of what this form of art is all about. If we want to only see snap shots of family events because someone just got an SLR and thinks that their last shot is amazing then so be it. In general and take it for what it is the images being posted here have been dropping in quality and genuine desire to make improvements to ones work is becoming apparent for the bulk of what is being posted. I think that most people here are likely aware of the image that sparked this post. The post being removed and one of the better participants to this Forum wishing to leave it because of a lack of artistic freedom. Personally the image is not my taste, but being linked I have the option to view or not to view images here and move on. I hope that the direction of this forum does not go to simple snap shots because its participants cannot stomach a different view on art or expression of topic or viewpoint. Photography is and always has been about showing people something different in the world around them. Look at the most influential images you can think of, I don't think that the ones you remember the clearest or made you think the most were comfortable to view, which at the end of the day is the whole point. And now for a Scotch and stogie. Nov 30, 2012 at 12:37 AM

Access Offline • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #2 · State of affairs It has already been discussed to the point of exhaustion. Nothing is forever. Just enjoy that scotch ゆっくりしていってね！！！ Nov 30, 2012 at 12:55 AM

ChiShutter Offline • • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #3 · State of affairs The OP AND a response saying it's been discussed to the point of exhaustion... and yet I know nothing about it. This tells me I haven't been shooting enough, which leads to not posting enough, and also not reading enough. D'oh! Nov 30, 2012 at 01:24 AM

jjaylad Offline • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #4 · State of affairs I'm for artistic freedom providing it isn't disgusting or offensive to the subjects. If the mods get inundated with tear down requests ..and replies express revulsion ..then right on ..tear it down. Other than that ..art is art. Nov 30, 2012 at 02:36 AM

vilimo Offline • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #5 · State of affairs I completely agree with OP. I don't necessary like all the photos that are being posted here but I have a choice to click the thread or not... nobody can force me to do so. If i don't like the title of the thread, then I don't click it. Same with those NSFW threads... As most of these are linked, I have a choice whether to click it or not... Nov 30, 2012 at 03:28 AM

Andre Labonte Offline • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #6 · State of affairs ChiShutter wrote: The OP AND a response saying it's been discussed to the point of exhaustion... and yet I know nothing about it. This tells me I haven't been shooting enough, which leads to not posting enough, and also not reading enough. D'oh! OK, let's put it another way, Fred locked the thread after 7+ pages of the debate. Nov 30, 2012 at 04:33 AM

Andre Labonte Offline • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #7 · State of affairs Here's a different perspective all together, and this coming from a fan (i.e. me) of much (but certainly not all) of Francois work. A quote from Abraham Lincoln really puts the kibosh on a lot of twisted human reasoning of today, and it goes like this: “If you call a tail a leg, how many legs has a dog? Five? No, calling a tail a leg don't make it a leg.” Just because you label something a certain way doesn’t change it into something that it is not, ie. pornogrophy into art. Society today has gotten to the point that any shit that comes out of one's mouth or someone puts into a photo is labled as art so long as some artistic methods were used ... sorry, that just is not so. There comes a point when lines are crossed and sensors are a good thing. Besides, this is Fred's forum and he can do as he pleases. Read the forum rules and it is clear that not everything will be tollerated. In the 7+ years Francois has pushed the limits of decency, Fred removed ONE image, ~0.25% of Francois' posts, and people have a bee in their bonet about it. Get real. I'm sad to see Francois go, but honestly, Francois' and other peoples reactions have been way out of proportion. Nov 30, 2012 at 04:43 AM

qwyjibo Online • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #8 · State of affairs This other, slightly less famous, quote by Abraham Lincoln sums up the attitude of all the people that complained about a photo that they had to click in order to view and it goes like this: "Ahhhh... damn... that little shortsighted, intolerant bastard shot me... right in the head... damn that stings... aarrrrgggghhhhhhhhhhuuuuhhhh" Nov 30, 2012 at 05:30 AM

DaveOls Offline • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #9 · State of affairs As others have said before, you choose whether to open a NSFW or NUDE thread yourself. The choice is yours. Maybe there should be a separate thread for them so you are not tempted. By losing people like Francois, I hope not, you are whittling down the number of posters. Nikonians used to be a good forum, but now it is just a shadow of itself since they started charging. By the way, I always thought that Francois's images were almost always very tasteful. Even the ones that were a bit risque were worth looking at. Nov 30, 2012 at 04:28 PM

Bert DeMars Offline • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #10 · State of affairs The NSFW and NUDE warnings are not coupled with an age restriction sign in. Anyone in a family can easily click through. Francois was one of the most talented photographers on the forum. Great compositions, lighting and beautiful models. Do you advocates draw the line anywhere? Does anything go, no matter how repulsive, just because its "called" art. Nov 30, 2012 at 04:52 PM

sowega Offline • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #11 · State of affairs Would Robert Mapelthorpe be allowed to post here? What about Jan Saudek, Andres Serrano, Gottfriend Helnwein, or Steven Meisel? I like it here, admittedly I've not been here long and I didnt see the post that inspired this thread but it would have to go 'way way over the line' to cause me to think it should be banned. Nov 30, 2012 at 05:03 PM

Bert DeMars Offline • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #12 · State of affairs sowega wrote: Would Robert Mapelthorpe be allowed to post here? What about Jan Saudek, Andres Serrano, Gottfriend Helnwein, or Steven Meisel? I like it here, admittedly I've not been here long and I didnt see the post that inspired this thread but it would have to go 'way way over the line' to cause me to think it should be banned. Would a woman bound up in ropes with a man shoving the end of a shotgun barrel in her mouth appeal to your taste. Nov 30, 2012 at 05:08 PM

sowega Offline • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #13 · State of affairs Bert DeMars wrote: sowega wrote: Would Robert Mapelthorpe be allowed to post here? What about Jan Saudek, Andres Serrano, Gottfriend Helnwein, or Steven Meisel? I like it here, admittedly I've not been here long and I didnt see the post that inspired this thread but it would have to go 'way way over the line' to cause me to think it should be banned. Would a woman bound up in ropes with a man shoving the end of a shotgun barrel in her mouth appeal to your taste. No, not to my taste. Should it be censored? Should we as a group be telling that photographer that his work is obscene and not fit for publication? I dont believe so. Again, would the photographers I listed be banned as well? They are all quite noteworthy and respected for their contributions to the arts. I can think of several of them that might produce an image such as you describe. Nov 30, 2012 at 05:26 PM

alohadave Offline • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #14 · State of affairs sowega wrote: Bert DeMars wrote: sowega wrote: Would Robert Mapelthorpe be allowed to post here? What about Jan Saudek, Andres Serrano, Gottfriend Helnwein, or Steven Meisel? I like it here, admittedly I've not been here long and I didnt see the post that inspired this thread but it would have to go 'way way over the line' to cause me to think it should be banned. Would a woman bound up in ropes with a man shoving the end of a shotgun barrel in her mouth appeal to your taste. No, not to my taste. Should it be censored? Should we as a group be telling that photographer that his work is obscene and not fit for publication? I dont believe so. Again, would the photographers I listed be banned as well? They are all quite noteworthy and respected for their contributions to the arts. I can think of several of them that might produce an image such as you describe. No one was banned. He left voluntarily, on his own. He was not forced to leave. Nov 30, 2012 at 05:46 PM

Bert DeMars Offline • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #15 · State of affairs sowega wrote: Bert DeMars wrote: sowega wrote: Would Robert Mapelthorpe be allowed to post here? What about Jan Saudek, Andres Serrano, Gottfriend Helnwein, or Steven Meisel? I like it here, admittedly I've not been here long and I didnt see the post that inspired this thread but it would have to go 'way way over the line' to cause me to think it should be banned. Would a woman bound up in ropes with a man shoving the end of a shotgun barrel in her mouth appeal to your taste. No, not to my taste. Should it be censored? Should we as a group be telling that photographer that his work is obscene and not fit for publication? I dont believe so. Again, would the photographers I listed be banned as well? They are all quite noteworthy and respected for their contributions to the arts. I can think of several of them that might produce an image such as you describe. The image "such as I describe", was the Francois image taken down by FM. Nov 30, 2012 at 05:53 PM

Fred Miranda Online Admin Upload & Sell: On p.1 #16 · State of affairs Do we really need another one of these threads? Just to make things clear: 1) Nothing changed on People Photography board rules. Artistic nudes have always been allowed in here. 2) There was only one thread deleted in the entire existence of this board. The reason was because the image replies were vicious resulting in personal attacks and complaints. 3) Francois decided to leave the board voluntarily. I did my best to change his mind and make him understand what happened. Nov 30, 2012 at 06:34 PM

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