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Archive 2012 · Original 580 EX flash does not work so well with 5D3
  
 
SwampYankee
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p.1 #1 · Original 580 EX flash does not work so well with 5D3


New owner of a 5D3. When I use my original 580 EX I it only takes decent flash pictures on full Auto. Even then I am stuck with best guess focus and the widest aperture of the lens I am using. If I try TV or P it under exposes by about 3 stops. If I try AV it seems to ignore the flash entirely. Flash will fire, but exposure is based on the pre-existing light conditions. Also, on AV, my 24-105 will only shoot wide open. Changing the aperture simple does not work. Flash does can not be controlled by the in camera functions. Is all of this normal and I need to buy a new flash?
thanks



Nov 11, 2012 at 08:42 PM
harrygilbert
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p.1 #2 · Original 580 EX flash does not work so well with 5D3


I'd also be interested to know if this is going to be a problem before buying the 5D3.


Nov 11, 2012 at 09:02 PM
Gochugogi
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p.1 #3 · Original 580 EX flash does not work so well with 5D3


SwampYankee wrote:
New owner of a 5D3. When I use my original 580 EX I it only takes decent flash pictures on full Auto. Even then I am stuck with best guess focus and the widest aperture of the lens I am using. If I try TV or P it under exposes by about 3 stops. If I try AV it seems to ignore the flash entirely. Flash will fire, but exposure is based on the pre-existing light conditions. Also, on AV, my 24-105 will only shoot wide open. Changing the aperture simple does not work. Flash does can not be controlled
...Show more

I have a few answers, but not all of them:

Av and Tv modes are designed to balance flash with ambient light, i.e., fill flash. So by design they use auto FEC to reduce flash so it mainly fills in shadows. The amount of reduction varies with ambient light levels.

The 580EX was designed before the 5D3 and thus can't be controlled from the camera flash menu. However, you should be able to set special functions and CFs on the 580EX LCD menus (I do this since my Speedlites are all grayed out on my cameras).

Since full auto mode works fine--user input disabled--but the semi auto modes are underexposed, perhaps you inadvertently set FEC? FEC is one of the few functions older Speedlites allow to be enabled on the camera.



Nov 11, 2012 at 09:34 PM
SwampYankee
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p.1 #4 · Original 580 EX flash does not work so well with 5D3


Whats FEC (Flash Exposure Compensation?) and how do I turn it on/off?



Nov 11, 2012 at 09:51 PM
BrianO
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p.1 #5 · Original 580 EX flash does not work so well with 5D3


SwampYankee wrote:
...I am stuck with best guess focus and the widest aperture of the lens I am using. ...Also, on AV, my 24-105 will only shoot wide open. Changing the aperture simple does not work.


These have nothing (directly) to do with the flash you're using. You either have a defective camera, or you're not using the camera correctly. If it's the latter, that could be what's also giving you flash problems.

So, first things first: what do you mean by "best guess focus"?

Second, what do you mean by "Changing the aperture simple does not work"? Can you not change the aperture at all, or do you mean that the numbers on the display change but the exposure doesn't?



Nov 11, 2012 at 09:54 PM
Yohan Pamudji
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p.1 #6 · Original 580 EX flash does not work so well with 5D3


SwampYankee wrote:
New owner of a 5D3. When I use my original 580 EX I it only takes decent flash pictures on full Auto. Even then I am stuck with best guess focus and the widest aperture of the lens I am using. If I try TV or P it under exposes by about 3 stops. If I try AV it seems to ignore the flash entirely. Flash will fire, but exposure is based on the pre-existing light conditions. Also, on AV, my 24-105 will only shoot wide open. Changing the aperture simple does not work. Flash does can not be controlled
...Show more

What Canon DSLR did you use your 580EX on before, and is its behavior with the 580EX any different than what you're experiencing with the 5DIII + 580EX?



Nov 11, 2012 at 09:59 PM
BrianO
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p.1 #7 · Original 580 EX flash does not work so well with 5D3


SwampYankee wrote:
Whats FEC (Flash Exposure Compensation?) and how do I turn it on/off?


Yes, it's Flash Exposure Compensation. It allows you to fine tune what the camera thinks is the proper flash exposure, independently from the ambient exposure. If it's set too low you'll have under-exposed flash.

It's on page 188 of your user guide.









Nov 11, 2012 at 10:04 PM
Gochugogi
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p.1 #8 · Original 580 EX flash does not work so well with 5D3


SwampYankee wrote:
Whats FEC (Flash Exposure Compensation?) and how do I turn it on/off?


First, be sure the mode dial is set to the "Creative Zone," e.g., P, Av, Tv or M. Press the Quick Control button (between QCD & joystick). You'll see a screen showing most user controlled functions. The icon with a electric bolt and +/_ shows if FEC is set. If it reads, -2.0 or -3.0 you know what the problem was. Select the icon with the joystick, and turn the wheel to zero it out.

If you bought a used 5D3 the previous owner may be used a CF to assign FEC to direct QCD input. In such case it is easy to accidentally set it.



Nov 11, 2012 at 10:09 PM
SwampYankee
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p.1 #9 · Original 580 EX flash does not work so well with 5D3


OK, I think TV and AV will shoot as if there was not flash. Teh flash will fire, but it will be fill. Flash only works dedicate with full Auto or P. As for best guess I mean the the full auto, which tends to focus on the closest thing. When use P, I can use and focus mode I like, but the shotts apear to be underexposed.


Nov 11, 2012 at 10:17 PM
SwampYankee
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p.1 #10 · Original 580 EX flash does not work so well with 5D3


I used hte flash with a 50 D. When set to the P mode, it did not under expose


Nov 11, 2012 at 10:18 PM
 

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SwampYankee
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p.1 #11 · Original 580 EX flash does not work so well with 5D3


Thanks, no FEC is set right in the middle. Wondering where the exposure from th flash is set from. Like I said, full auto, no problem, but it tends to consider a few focus points. P mode, underexposed, but it is only using a center focusing point. Does the camera use evaluative metering when using flash or just consider the focus points?


Nov 11, 2012 at 10:25 PM
Gochugogi
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p.1 #12 · Original 580 EX flash does not work so well with 5D3


I would check FEC on the 580EX LCD too as Speedlite settings override camera settings.


Nov 11, 2012 at 10:40 PM
timbop
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p.1 #13 · Original 580 EX flash does not work so well with 5D3


That is absolutely not normal. I have 2 580's (originals, not mk2), both of which work just fine on my 5d3 (and every other camera I've had). Sounds like either the 5d3 has an issue, or the foot isn't making good contact on the hotshoe


Nov 12, 2012 at 06:21 PM
diverhank
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p.1 #14 · Original 580 EX flash does not work so well with 5D3


The way the OP describes it, it has nothing to do with the 580 ex or the 5DMk3. I think it's a matter of not fully understanding the Canon's flash philosophy. Gochugoki touched on this but I'd like to expand it a little further on layman term (that's the only term I can understand ). The 580EX has ETTL and it should work just fine with the 5DMk3. I use the 580EXII with the 5DMk3 so I can't confirm this, though.

For all modern Canon DSLR, using Flash in Av and Tv mode is meant to be fill flash only. This means that the camera will measure ambient light and set the appropriate exposure for ambient light. So unless you want fill flash, don't use Av or Tv for flash. In M, P or full auto, the flash will work properly as the main source of light - as well as auto can anyways.

For everyday flash use, I'd recommend using M (manual) and set the flash to ETTL. The camera and flash will take care of the correct amount of light for you. My 5DMk3 & 580 EXII combo is incredible in doing this perfect almost everytime.

P or Auto will dictate your shutter speed (I think 1/60) and that's too slow for me. In M, you have control of both Av and Tv. I usually set my Tv to 1/125 and Av to f/5.6. YMMV.

Please try this and let us know... Thanks.



Nov 12, 2012 at 07:22 PM
SwampYankee
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p.1 #15 · Original 580 EX flash does not work so well with 5D3


Gold star for you, I think, or at least you helped me move the problem along. To eliminate variables I took off my 24-104L and put on my 50 1.8 (original metal mount, sharp thing this lens). I mounted the flash, and kind of rocked it back and forth as I was putting into the mount. Tighted it up and ran a bunch of test shots and they were all great. Bounce flash too, exposure spot on. Automatic and P mode (P works, but is kind of limited by design 1/60 and 2.8 aperture.. Great exposures though. Old 70-200 f4L seems to work OK too. So back on goes the newish 24-105L. Well now I have a problem. That lens under exposes!! Tis a mystery, but that lens under exposes with flash. Otherwise, a great lens, but with the flash, too dark. Weird


Nov 12, 2012 at 07:34 PM
BrianO
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p.1 #16 · Original 580 EX flash does not work so well with 5D3


SwampYankee wrote:
...Old 70-200 f4L seems to work OK too. So back on goes the newish 24-105L. Well now I have a problem. That lens under exposes!! Tis a mystery, but that lens under exposes with flash. Otherwise, a great lens, but with the flash, too dark. Weird


Canon ring-USM lenses report focus distance to the body, and that distance is used in setting the flash output; so, maybe there is a problem with the electronics on that lens. You mentioned earlier something about not being able to change the aperture on that lens, so that's another piece of information indicating a possible lens problem.



Nov 12, 2012 at 07:45 PM
Gochugogi
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p.1 #17 · Original 580 EX flash does not work so well with 5D3


I don't have any flash problems with the 24-105L so, if your other lenses are fine, you have a defective 24-105. There is an outside possibility the lens contacts have a greasy fingerprint on them so you might clean them and test again before send it to Canon service.


Nov 12, 2012 at 07:51 PM
RichardLavigne
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p.1 #18 · Original 580 EX flash does not work so well with 5D3


I would concur with the group, that it seems you have some defective stuff... I've been shooting the 5DmkIII since release day. I've used it with the 24-105, 580exI, 580exII without issue...


Nov 12, 2012 at 08:16 PM
DmitriM
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p.1 #19 · Original 580 EX flash does not work so well with 5D3


Well, 580EXII and 5D III don't work well either.

580EXII wakes up 2 seconds later than expected. You press the shutter button and the flash doesn't fire...So I got used to half pressing the shutter while I move the camera to my face then half press it again to focus on the subject. Otherwise it just doesn't fire.

With 5DII it was instant.

I RMA'ed them all today (2 5DIII and 580exII). Told them not to give them back until ALL the issues with the cameras and this issues with the flash are fixed..



Nov 12, 2012 at 09:20 PM
Beni
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p.1 #20 · Original 580 EX flash does not work so well with 5D3


Clean the lens contacts. I've often had a bad lens connection cause problems with a flash on my original 5D's.


Nov 16, 2012 at 10:06 AM
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