Help with Zeiss ZM 35mm f2 needed

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Edgars Kalnins
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p.1 #1 · Help with Zeiss ZM 35mm f2 needed

Hi, wondered if you could help me with advice! I recently bought a used Zeiss ZM Biogon 35mm f2. In description the seller mentioned there were some marks on the rear of the barrel. He also mentioned it was repaired and he would attach the repair bill. He assured me it worked perfectly and the glass had no scratches. The price was good so I went for it - £430 with delivery etc.
Now I have received the lens it turns out some inexperienced person had attempted to repair the "Zeiss wobble", they had used inappropriate tools. As a result the little notches at the back have noticeable marks and the tool had slipped and scratched the lens - at the very edge 1x3mm.
I am not a perfectionist and would consider keeping the lens if we agree for a partial refund. I wondered if you have an idea how much we should settle for? I am interested in a "good" rather than "fair" price though as I bought it for a "good" price (judged according to sellers description).
I have tested it on NEX-3 today and it beats Contax G Planar 35mm f2 both close up and mid distance (can not test infinity due to adapter problem). No surprise there, of course, just shows that lens has not been damaged when repairs took place.

Oct 17, 2012 at 02:39 PM

Bijltje
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p.1 #2 · Help with Zeiss ZM 35mm f2 needed

First, with scratched the lens. Do u mean the barrel, or the glass elements?

If its the barrel, I think 430 pounds including shipping is quite a good price for a good working lens (amusing the wobble is gone) but with some marks on the barrel.
Don't forget the lens new is 770 pounds. Thats a little more than 50% were I would say a mint condition lens would set u back about 70 to 80% of the new price.

If the scratch is on the lens element the seller sold u a lens that isn't in the condition as described and u should get ur money back.
U could ask for a refund, say 50 pounds, but its all up to the seller if he wants to go that way.
More than 50 pounds would be silly I.M.O. if the seller would agree. 380 pounds for a working ZM 35 is a steal, even if there are some scratches.

Oct 17, 2012 at 04:16 PM

edwardkaraa
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p.1 #3 · Help with Zeiss ZM 35mm f2 needed

Edgars, the Zeiss wobble is a minor issue, but very difficult and expensive to fix (150 to 250 euros according to latest user reports). It involves dismantling the entire lens and sometimes Zeiss just offers a new lens at a discounted price rather than repairing the old lens. I would be very skeptical about the wobble being repaired by anyone but Zeiss. Perhaps they used some glue to stop the wobble. I don't mean to scare you but just consider your options.

(Edited the repair costs.)

Edited on Oct 17, 2012 at 05:01 PM · View previous versions

Oct 17, 2012 at 04:32 PM

Mike Tuomey
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p.1 #4 · Help with Zeiss ZM 35mm f2 needed

I may be oversimplifying but the seller misrepresented the lens' condition and its repair history. Thus, price aside, I would insist on a return for full refund. If an excellent or maybe even like new version can be had for 500-550 quid, I don't think a lens with a scratched element, marred barrel and screws, and perhaps overall a boggled/incomplete repair for 430 quid is really a steal.

Zeiss will charge 150+ to repair the "wobble," which would include a CLA, this from personal experience. The seller or someone under his direction tried to skirt a proper qualified repair, in my opinion. He doesn't deserve the business.

Oct 17, 2012 at 04:34 PM

Keith B.
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p.1 #5 · Help with Zeiss ZM 35mm f2 needed

While it certainly is not the sellers immediate concern, YOUR ability to resell the lens two or three years from now is your concern; Scratched glass lenses will be difficult to resell for anything but a very low price. Do not pay much more for the lens than YOU will be able to resell it for.

Oct 17, 2012 at 06:05 PM

Edgars Kalnins
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p.1 #6 · Help with Zeiss ZM 35mm f2 needed

Thank you for the support! I think I will ask for refund, as it does not seem to be properly repaired, the focusing sometimes goes a bit slower as if there was something wrong inside - I found a little ding on the ring as well. I think it would be a bad investment considering that it may break down again in a year or so and cost me another £150!
Well at least I will have tried the lens for the cost of return postage

. I had once before bought a well priced ZM (28/2.8) and that needed returning as well. Never had the same problem with ZF series (so far), seems like they are better built.

Oct 17, 2012 at 06:50 PM

edwardkaraa
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p.1 #7 · Help with Zeiss ZM 35mm f2 needed

Don't let this bad experience discourage you. I own five of them, and they are all perfect. On the top of that, IQ is better than ZE/ZF.

Oct 17, 2012 at 06:53 PM

Bijltje
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p.1 #8 · Help with Zeiss ZM 35mm f2 needed

Edgars Kalnins wrote:
Thank you for the support! I think I will ask for refund, as it does not seem to be properly repaired, the focusing sometimes goes a bit slower as if there was something wrong inside - I found a little ding on the ring as well. I think it would be a bad investment considering that it may break down again in a year or so and cost me another £150!
Well at least I will have tried the lens for the cost of return postage

. I had once before bought a well priced ZM (28/2.8) and that needed returning as well. Never had the same problem with ZF series (so far), seems like they are better built.

Well, I have had 5 of them, only one had a slight wobble (28/2.8) but all the others were perfect all the time I have had them.
So don't be to scared to use them. In holland we have a saying, drie keer is scheepsrecht, with means something like, the third time it will be good.

Oct 17, 2012 at 07:05 PM

Edgars Kalnins
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p.1 #9 · Help with Zeiss ZM 35mm f2 needed

I will keep trying then

. 35mm Biogon f2 seems to be worth it!

Oct 17, 2012 at 07:56 PM

Mike Tuomey
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p.1 #10 · Help with Zeiss ZM 35mm f2 needed

Edgars, I believe the ZM line and the 35/2 specifically are well worth it.

Re maintenance, in my case I adopted the ZM lenses early, right from their inception, and have owned most of them: 18/4, 21/2.8, 25/2.8, 28/2.8, 35/2, 35/2.8, 50/2, 50/1.5. The ones I've kept and used most frequently and over a longer time - 35/2, 50/2, 50/1.5 - eventually needed repairs, all outside warranty. The c-sonnar needed a rebuild (worn gears) while the 35/2 biogon and 50 planar needed CLAs, mostly for relubing. So, I think it's not a bad idea to plan and budget for service and at least consider a preventive trip to Zeiss for a relubing which will discourage premature wear.

Oct 18, 2012 at 01:47 PM

Edgars Kalnins
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p.1 #11 · Help with Zeiss ZM 35mm f2 needed

Mike Tuomey wrote:
Edgars, I believe the ZM line and the 35/2 specifically are well worth it.

Re maintenance, in my case I adopted the ZM lenses early, right from their inception, and have owned most of them: 18/4, 21/2.8, 25/2.8, 28/2.8, 35/2, 35/2.8, 50/2, 50/1.5. The ones I've kept and used most frequently and over a longer time - 35/2, 50/2, 50/1.5 - eventually needed repairs, all outside warranty. The c-sonnar needed a rebuild (worn gears) while the 35/2 biogon and 50 planar needed CLAs, mostly for relubing. So, I think it's not a bad idea to plan and budget for service and at least consider a preventive trip to Zeiss for a relubing which will discourage premature wear.

Considering that many of my Zeiss lenses are 30--50 years old the need for CLA for the modern ones rises questions of quality. I suppose you do use them a lot? My contax 50/1.7 (maybe both of them) became slightly too loose after frequent use, but none of the others. Recently bought a contarex 35/4 that has so smooth and well adjusted focusing that I fell in love with it

. I know that even contarex lenses need re-lubing eventually, but then they are 40-50 years old.
It could be to do with the modern approach to manufacturing that affects even Zeiss (in this case a bit more relaxed quality control I guess).

Oct 18, 2012 at 03:12 PM

CVickery
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p.1 #12 · Help with Zeiss ZM 35mm f2 needed

The ZM line, represents excellent value, but they are made using modern techniques and materials and as such may not have the long life of older lenses. I owned a ZM50/2 Planar that had a slight wobble issue. I had the local leica repair guy fix the lens and when I picked it up he could bearly conceal his disgust at how it was made. I assume that these lenses will likely not be usable in 50 years (but then I don't expect to be here either!) and may require periodic fixes. That being said, they have excellent optical properties, and I can afford them....not a bad combination.

Oct 18, 2012 at 03:24 PM

Edgars Kalnins
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p.1 #13 · Help with Zeiss ZM 35mm f2 needed

I agree and I am very much intrigued by 35/2 (possibly 25mm as well) so I will keep looking - just be extra careful when buying them!

Oct 18, 2012 at 03:46 PM

Taylor Sherman
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p.1 #14 · Help with Zeiss ZM 35mm f2 needed

. I had once before bought a well priced ZM (28/2.8) and that needed returning as well. Never had the same problem with ZF series (so far), seems like they are better built.

This sounds quite a bit like the 35/2 I had for a couple months this year, and sold on E-bay. Though mine had no indication of repair attempts. I tried to describe the focus stickiness/wobble as best I could in my auction. Mine had a ding on the focus ring, and was stiffer at one end of the focus than the other, but not consistently. You may have the same one! The ding on the focus ring made me realize it had probably been dropped at some point and the ring itself was slightly deformed.

I bought it from a Japanese retailer on Ebay and they said nothing about this flaw. I should have forced a refund from them. I ended up losing a couple hundred bucks on it, as of course it went for cheaper in my auction since I described the problem.

Oct 18, 2012 at 04:58 PM

edwardkaraa
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p.1 #15 · Help with Zeiss ZM 35mm f2 needed

Uneven focusing rings are a trademark of Cosina

Oct 18, 2012 at 05:12 PM

sebboh
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p.1 #16 · Help with Zeiss ZM 35mm f2 needed

that's very disconcerting to hear. what are the zm and cv lens helicoids made from? not the usual brass on aluminum? or are they just poor fitting?

Oct 18, 2012 at 05:20 PM

Edgars Kalnins
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p.1 #17 · Help with Zeiss ZM 35mm f2 needed

Taylor Sherman wrote:
This sounds quite a bit like the 35/2 I had for a couple months this year, and sold on E-bay. Though mine had no indication of repair attempts. I tried to describe the focus stickiness/wobble as best I could in my auction. Mine had a ding on the focus ring, and was stiffer at one end of the focus than the other, but not consistently. You may have the same one! The ding on the focus ring made me realize it had probably been dropped at some point and the ring itself was slightly deformed.

I bought it from a Japanese retailer on Ebay and they said nothing about this flaw. I should have forced a refund from them. I ended up losing a couple hundred bucks on it, as of course it went for cheaper in my auction since I described the problem.

I bought mine from french ebay, it came from Paris (serial number ending 320). I found his name on google - seems like a serious photographer. I still can't decide if he tried to trick me or was just careless.
At the moment I am awaiting his answer on ebay.

Oct 18, 2012 at 05:28 PM

edwardkaraa
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p.1 #18 · Help with Zeiss ZM 35mm f2 needed

sebboh wrote:
that's very disconcerting to hear. what are the zm and cv lens helicoids made from? not the usual brass on aluminum? or are they just poor fitting?

I've heard this from several sources. They actually use brass on aluminum, and the fitting is very good, but it seems the finishing of the focusing gears is a bit crude and not as refined as Leica.

Oct 19, 2012 at 02:50 AM

sebboh
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p.1 #19 · Help with Zeiss ZM 35mm f2 needed

edwardkaraa wrote:
sebboh wrote:
that's very disconcerting to hear. what are the zm and cv lens helicoids made from? not the usual brass on aluminum? or are they just poor fitting?

I've heard this from several sources. They actually use brass on aluminum, and the fitting is very good, but it seems the finishing of the focusing gears is a bit crude and not as refined as Leica.

i've heard that as well, but it doesn't make any sense to me because unlike many autofocus lenses a manual focus lens doesn't really have any "gears" the helicoid is the only thing that could be called a gear and it is directly linked to the focus ring (no gears in between). it's possible that where the lens barrel, focus ring, and mount attach to the helicoid there is a poor fit, but that is not gearing... maybe the helicoid threads are not well polished? but i would log that as a poor fitting helicoid.

Oct 19, 2012 at 03:16 AM

edwardkaraa
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p.1 #20 · Help with Zeiss ZM 35mm f2 needed

Well, yes, I should have said helicoid threads

Oct 19, 2012 at 04:23 AM

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