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Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?
  
 
mpmendenhall
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p.13 #1 · p.13 #1 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?


Mescalamba wrote:
Nothing suprising, both DP2M and SD1M are base ISO only cams. But then, they are great for that..


That image is at ISO200. The same is also present in ISO100 images. The color blotching is a base ISO issue (though it gets hilariously bad at high ISO). However, I don't want to over-inflate the magnitude of the problem; unless you know what you're looking for, you're unlikely to notice the issue in regular images. I've also seen the same base-ISO blotching in images from many other cameras, so it's not an X3-sensor-only issue.



Oct 12, 2012 at 03:32 PM
alundeb
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p.13 #2 · p.13 #2 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?


mpmendenhall wrote:
Everywhere. Look closely at the colors of the wall --- there are patches varying between green and magenta color shifts that the real wall didn't have. Below is a version of the photo with saturation cranked way up to make it more evident. Once you realize it's there, the blotches are obvious (at least when you look for them) in this image and most of the other DP2M samples posted.

http://praetoriusphoto.images.s3.amazonaws.com/fmforums/20121011_dp2m/stairs_sat.jpg


This photo is amazing! I love those colors! Gotta run and buy one now!



Oct 12, 2012 at 03:49 PM
mpmendenhall
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p.13 #3 · p.13 #3 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?


more photos.











and a 100% crop of the above:







Oct 12, 2012 at 04:30 PM
andyjaggy82
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p.13 #4 · p.13 #4 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?


B&H has them both in stock now. If I had a grand laying around I would pick one up.


Oct 12, 2012 at 07:38 PM
Kibsgaard
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p.13 #5 · p.13 #5 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?


mpmendenhall wrote:
Everywhere. Look closely at the colors of the wall --- there are patches varying between green and magenta color shifts that the real wall didn't have. Below is a version of the photo with saturation cranked way up to make it more evident. Once you realize it's there, the blotches are obvious (at least when you look for them) in this image and most of the other DP2M samples posted.

http://praetoriusphoto.images.s3.amazonaws.com/fmforums/20121011_dp2m/stairs_sat.jpg


Thank you for helping here, and yes very clear here, but not clear on the other photo, it is so minor, that you have to look very hard for it, and perhaps only see it, if you print out huge ?

What iso was it shot with ?



Oct 12, 2012 at 08:23 PM
Mescalamba
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p.13 #6 · p.13 #6 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?


mpmendenhall wrote:
That image is at ISO200. The same is also present in ISO100 images. The color blotching is a base ISO issue (though it gets hilariously bad at high ISO). However, I don't want to over-inflate the magnitude of the problem; unless you know what you're looking for, you're unlikely to notice the issue in regular images. I've also seen the same base-ISO blotching in images from many other cameras, so it's not an X3-sensor-only issue.


I know, but when files are not much abused, its not that visible on ISO100. Unfortunately that leaves users with "not-so-flexibile" files. Definitely not 1D class image durability..



Oct 12, 2012 at 08:25 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.13 #7 · p.13 #7 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?


I'm a bit impressed with the file quality - they are much more malleable than I expected. Huge improvement over earlier DP's with regard to color. Maybe Sigma has made some progress on the software side of things. I'm not seeing any color vignetting at all with the 19mm on the DP1M. That was an issue with the last DP1 I owned. Here are a few snap shots out of the DP1M. with 100% crops following each. -1 used for sharpness.




























Oct 12, 2012 at 08:27 PM
mpmendenhall
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p.13 #8 · p.13 #8 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?


Here's a quick test to check the DP2M's color constancy / blotching issues: a defocused shot of an 18% gray card.
ISO 100, f4, custom in-camera white balance under outdoor overcast/shade:






Same image, heavily processed to exaggerate color and exposure:






There are two main things going on here: first, an overall shift from magenta to green tones going from the center to the edges; second, a non-uniform mottling/splotching/banding of the color tint. I don't think either effect is severe enough to be annoying in "normal" pictures; nonetheless, it's something to be aware of (and maybe try to correct for) in shots where you care about accurately reproducing very fine color gradients.



Oct 12, 2012 at 10:43 PM
Kibsgaard
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p.13 #9 · p.13 #9 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?


mpmendenhall wrote:
Here's a quick test to check the DP2M's color constancy / blotching issues: a defocused shot of an 18% gray card.
ISO 100, f4, custom in-camera white balance under outdoor overcast/shade:
http://praetoriusphoto.images.s3.amazonaws.com/fmforums/20121011_dp2m/greycard.jpg

Same image, heavily processed to exaggerate color and exposure:
http://praetoriusphoto.images.s3.amazonaws.com/fmforums/20121011_dp2m/greycard_sat.jpg

There are two main things going on here: first, an overall shift from magenta to green tones going from the center to the edges; second, a non-uniform mottling/splotching/banding of the color tint. I don't think either effect is severe enough to be annoying in "normal" pictures; nonetheless, it's something to be aware of (and maybe try to correct for) in shots where you
...Show more

Thank you - it is good to be aware of this



Oct 12, 2012 at 11:04 PM
mpmendenhall
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p.13 #10 · p.13 #10 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?


Since I've been picking on how the DP2M handles color , how about some comments on how the sensor fares when color is out of the equation?

The DP2M files behave beautifully when reduced to black and white with a "channel mixer" conversion; the impressive sharpness and tonality of the color image carries over completely into the B&W version. This is a niche application where all Bayer-filtered sensors can quickly fall apart; when you use a channel mix dominated by one color, you throw away 1/2 to 3/4 of the pixels (so a D800 becomes a 9MPx camera with aliasing problems). With the DP2M, you still have a full super-sharp 15Mpx to work with.

Here's a test scene, shot in color (ISO100, f5.6, 1/200s) then converted to B+W in Aperture using only the red channel:






But if you want an even stronger effect (a sharper/narrower wavelength cut than either the CFA on a traditional sensor or the X3 technology allows), you can put a color filter in front of the lens. Below is the same image with a B+W 091 filter ("dark red", 630nm long-pass). Notice the stronger "haze cutting" effect; longer wavelengths scatter less, so features on the distant mountain are sharper/higher contrast.






For comparison, here is the image shot through a green filter (Tiffen, Wratten 58 color separation filter):






and through a blue filter (Tiffen, Wratten 47b color separation filter; fans of old-school orthochromatic film emulsions rejoice!):






note how the clouds/haze increase to near opacity in the blue filter image. Detail in all color-filtered images is stunning (100% crop from the 091 red below); also, the lens was not re-focused between these --- another indicator of how well corrected the design is against chromatic aberrations. In this specialized niche, the DP2M will be hard to beat by anything less expensive/specialized than a Leica M-M.







Oct 13, 2012 at 01:10 AM
 

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andyjaggy82
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p.13 #11 · p.13 #11 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?


I continue to be amazed at the detail that camera can capture.

In regards to the color problems, I wonder if it stays consistent with every shot? If it did I wonder if you could use that gray card shot to cancel out the effect? Of course if it was that simply you would think they would natively incorporate it into the image processing.



Oct 13, 2012 at 02:21 AM
millsart
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p.13 #12 · p.13 #12 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?


Very interesting, I so need to dig out some of my old color filters this weekend!


Oct 13, 2012 at 04:32 AM
mpmendenhall
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p.13 #13 · p.13 #13 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?


As a tribute to Frederic Eugene Ives, here are the separate red/green/blue filtered photos combined into a single image (the moving clouds and branches add extra color):







Oct 13, 2012 at 04:54 AM
Kibsgaard
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p.13 #14 · p.13 #14 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?


mpmendenhall wrote:
Since I've been picking on how the DP2M handles color , how about some comments on how the sensor fares when color is out of the equation?

The DP2M files behave beautifully when reduced to black and white with a "channel mixer" conversion; the impressive sharpness and tonality of the color image carries over completely into the B&W version. This is a niche application where all Bayer-filtered sensors can quickly fall apart; when you use a channel mix dominated by one color, you throw away 1/2 to 3/4 of the pixels (so a D800 becomes a 9MPx camera with aliasing problems).
...Show more

This very interesting - thank you for sharing



Oct 13, 2012 at 05:08 AM
kosmoskatten
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p.13 #15 · p.13 #15 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?


Kibsgaard wrote:
Thank you - it is good to be aware of this



Found this remedy on the LL forum, posted by Hyluss Bowman, anybody tried this;


"EDIT: The problem can be fixed via PP in PS by going in hue Red +5 and Yellow -15. This work and give perfect skin colours/transitions."



Oct 13, 2012 at 05:25 AM
Kibsgaard
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p.13 #16 · p.13 #16 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?


Please help me here.

After looking at most of the pictures here on this thread I saw a thread with another camera, Sony RX 100:


http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1139172


If you are looking at the first 5 pictures am I right in this quick and certainly not "scientific" interpretation:

The Merrill could do it a bit better ?

I know this is not a real comparison and you could get on and on and make a lot of critiq of asking for this, but just a quick judgement ?

It is NOT to say anything wrong about Sony - in fact I am thinking about the new RX1 myself, when it comes a bit down in price.




Oct 13, 2012 at 05:25 AM
FlyPenFly
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p.13 #17 · p.13 #17 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?


The first five wasn't sharpened enough because the stupid poster forgot to turn on final output sharpening.


Oct 13, 2012 at 05:28 AM
mpmendenhall
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p.13 #18 · p.13 #18 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?


Kibsgaard wrote:
If you are looking at the first 5 pictures am I right in this quick and certainly not "scientific" interpretation:

The Merrill could do it a bit better ?


Whichever camera was in the hands of a more skilled photographer would do a lot better.

The Merrill would probably be ahead on extra-fine detail, so long as lighting allowed for ISO <= ~400. The Merrill would lose badly in low light / high ISO shots, along with cases where fast operation / autofocus / etc. is needed to capture spur-of-the-moment action. After the first few dozen shots, the Merill's battery will be dead and it will certainly not be doing better.

I'd say these two cameras each have their own separate, largely non-overlapping strengths and weaknesses, so "better" will very much depend on the specifics of the situation.



Oct 13, 2012 at 05:33 AM
nandadevieast
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p.13 #19 · p.13 #19 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?


Monday


Oct 13, 2012 at 07:12 AM
Kibsgaard
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p.13 #20 · p.13 #20 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?


mpmendenhall wrote:
Whichever camera was in the hands of a more skilled photographer would do a lot better.

......This we all know

The Merrill would probably be ahead on extra-fine detail, so long as lighting allowed for ISO <= ~400.

........This was what I was after, thank you.

The Merrill would lose badly in low light / high ISO shots, along with cases where fast operation / autofocus / etc. is needed to capture spur-of-the-moment action. After the first few dozen shots, the Merill's battery will be dead and it will certainly not be doing better.

....Yes we will have to live with this

I'd say these
...Show more


.....I know therefore I wrote as I did, but we have seen some very fine portraits here - better than average, and also street photos better than average, and in my opinion better than the photos from the link from the other camera


Thanks



Oct 13, 2012 at 07:18 AM
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