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Archive 2012 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)
  
 
melcat
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p.57 #1 · p.57 #1 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


philip_pj wrote:
'How about the stupid, stupid mechanical shutter release cable?' Lol, I love those things...and loathe the electronic garbage I now need to use on Sony DSLRs, I see even the A77 needs the damn thing also.


OK, I have no idea what the Sony electrical one is like but the Canon one for the 5 and 1 series is sweet. Now I can see how Sony wouldn't adopt Canon's and how they also might be sensitive to complaints about proprietary accessories, q.v. memory stick. So from a marketing point of view the mechanical one might have been inevitable but I would be surprised if the engineers hadn't pushed back hard against it.

you can attach one in a dark room if need by; ergo feedback; you know when the cable thread is fully seated;

The Canon one locks home positively, and can be rotated by feel into the correct orientation without damaging the pins.

they are pretty well indestructible, unlike the later thing that cannot be trusted

Contrary to my experience, which goes back more than 30 years with the mechanical ones. Granted, this last one has been good due to improved materials.

time taken to use a new age CR is just insufferable - the plug is not a both way fit

This is a good thing. In the case of Canon, it guarantees the cable dresses to the front.

exposure of electronic contacts to the elements

It's a valid criticism that they're not weather sealed. OTOH I've never had a PC socket go bad on me due to weather. I've used my teflon-lined cable release in bad weather, but with the old style that was asking for trouble. I remember my father taking his apart and greasing the inside to keep the rust at bay.

ease of storage

At least on Canon vs. mechanical, this is provably wrong. Put them side by side and look at the minimum radius. I do carry the electric one in my rainjacket outside pocket but never would have tried it with the cable one.

feel of the plunger

Not going there.

even the way they curved away from the body was great

You really like it sticking up from the top plate? It's also perfectly arranged to damage the mechanism when bumped. I like to hang my Canon one from a tripod knob.

, the length was just right not to snag on branches; you can walk a distance with the mech CR attached

I stopped doing that many years ago when my mech one *did* get snagged on branches. IMO the T on the end is perfect for snagging, unlike the smooth electric one. There was a picture floating around the net of, I think, an OM-4 with the entire shutter barrel pulled out by a snagged cable release.

You might just get used to one again...

If I thought I'd be using it much I wouldn't buy the camera.


Edited on Oct 02, 2012 at 09:44 AM · View previous versions



Oct 02, 2012 at 08:48 AM
alundeb
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p.57 #2 · p.57 #2 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


alundeb wrote:
I need reasons not to get this camera, but they are hard to find cost aside.

hauxon wrote:
I think it's kind of stupid not having a built in optical viewfinder since it's a fixed lens camera. Should be rather straight forward, just like my Konica C35 has room for it and it's probably smaller than the RX1. The Fuji X100 implementation is almost perfect. Sony should have done somehting like that! The bulky external EVF makes it almost as big as a DSLR. haha

....go buy one and test it out for us!




Reasons not to get this camera:

- No tilting screen
- No optical image stabilization
- No electronic remote control
- Heavy burden of test expectations from a demanding and friendly communtiy


On the flip side:
- External EVF is acceptable
- I need high shutter speeds to photograph people anyway
- I may learn how to use a mechanical RC
- Testing is fun



Oct 02, 2012 at 09:15 AM
Yakim Peled
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p.57 #3 · p.57 #3 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


I must wonder why no manufacture has designed a magnetic shutter release cable? It should be quite easy and you could attach it even in the dark. I remember that when I had a MBP I really liked that idea.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.



Oct 02, 2012 at 09:32 AM
vario1
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p.57 #4 · p.57 #4 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


millsart wrote:
Do any true Zeiss lenses in any mount have image stabilization ?



I am speaking soley for the body itself. Coming from the A900 with stabilization inside, any lens strapped on was stabilized. It would have been a nice addition to a small camera.



Oct 02, 2012 at 12:57 PM
michaelwatkins
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p.57 #5 · p.57 #5 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


I have an Olympus with IBIS and always left it switched off, figuring that leaving it on meant the propeller heads were in charge. I've never taken the time to understand how lens or body based IS works, so maybe my attitude is misguided. None of my other cameras have IS of any sort. Am I a Luddite?

In other news, hat tip to SonyAlphaRumours.com, Sony announces some changes to the RX1 design/firmware.

1) They simplified the up front control for focus modes to AF, DMF and MF, with "AF replacing Single and Continuous choices before. It looks like continuous mode remains available for video recording, single mode for stills. Thankfully you can disable continuous.

2) Like the Fujifilm X100 the leaf shutter supports to a minimum shutter speed of 1/4000th second and like the X100 the minimum shutter speed is available when stopped down to f/5.6.

Translated notice from Sony

Glad to hear about the shutter speed change.



Oct 02, 2012 at 06:03 PM
douglasf13
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p.57 #6 · p.57 #6 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Good news about the changes. Maybe they still have time to throw in a tilt LCD?


Oct 02, 2012 at 06:25 PM
michaelwatkins
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p.57 #7 · p.57 #7 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


douglasf13 wrote:
Good news about the changes. Maybe they still have time to throw in a tilt LCD?


And a built in EVF. And... well that'd be enough for now.

After crawling around on a cement patio this weekend hunting for "the" shot of sixteen month old twins, tilt LCD moved up to the top of my "I wish it had" list for this camera. Come to think about it, tilt-LCD and the Hawk Helicoid adapter are the things I miss most about the NEX-5N.

(I still got the shot, no-tilt GXR, scuffed knees and all)



Oct 02, 2012 at 06:48 PM
artur5
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p.57 #8 · p.57 #8 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Tilt EVF is fine for me .. $2800 for RX1 body + $500 for add-on EVF isn't that fine though


Oct 02, 2012 at 07:18 PM
michaelwatkins
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p.57 #9 · p.57 #9 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Spotted on the web - a size comparison between the RX1 and other new(ish) cameras.

TOP Click here for a larger viewable size


The new camera of around Photokina2012 6/6-RX1 Outline(Top) by foxfoto_archives, on Flickr

BACK Click here for a larger viewable size


The new camera of around Photokina2012 5/6-RX1 Outline(Rear) by foxfoto_archives, on Flickr



Oct 04, 2012 at 03:14 PM
Gary Clennan
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p.57 #10 · p.57 #10 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Thanks for posting that Michael!



Oct 04, 2012 at 04:10 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



michaelwatkins
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p.57 #11 · p.57 #11 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Comment spotted here on AF speed of RX1.
There are a few units spotted around SG... The one I was able to molest had really very very very fast AF and was also totally silent... except for the AF noise!



Oct 06, 2012 at 03:02 AM
michaelwatkins
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p.57 #12 · p.57 #12 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Comment on RX1 from Lloyd Chambers, for what it's worth, taken from his observations of the Nikon D600:

Without a doubt, the D600 sensor blows away any and all of the mirrorless APS-C sensors, including the Sony NEX-7, the Fujifilm X-Pro1, the Olympus E-M5. Not even close. To my eye, it appears to also outperform the D3x, which I shot for several years. At 1/4 the price, thatís not bad progress.

If the Nikon D600 sensor is the same Sony 24MP sensor to be delivered in the Sony RX1, then the RX1 might be a runaway hit with the best image quality per pound on the market. Which leads me to say this: could fixed lens cameras be the
...Show more

The comment is at present outside his pay-wall, currently it also appears on his landing page with some images of Yosemite made with the D600. http://diglloyd.com/



Oct 06, 2012 at 04:15 PM
philip_pj
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p.57 #13 · p.57 #13 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Sony were extremely cagey about the quality of the new 24Mp sensor, have been for months, so confident were they. D3X, which is the Nikon topping'd A900 sensor, more clarity but less low ISO style (a personal view), yes, I can see that from four years sensor dev, sure, but by what margin? 5-10%? D800 comparo (paywall) is his enticement built on the D600 IQ, even posted the same image twice, lol.

I have read others say there is not much in it between the two, but who knows just yet? Read and pay LC I guess, if needed fast. If the a99 gets there on the muscular strength of the sensor, that makes life easier for A mount people like me. For some still shooters it has to be much 'better' than the a900 while retaining the character, despite the impressive features. But nothing dissuades from the RX1 appeal.

Fixed lens for many people will be good enough, and prices will drop. High end FL cameras will be ever-ready, hugely capable upon inception in one small single parcel; and make ILCs look like a mechanic's nightmare. It's not often you can say a camera is a new paradigm but we now see two, both fixed lens : RX1 and the Merrills.

I didn't think the US had high desert - 12,000 feet? There are large cities that high in the Himal, that is the starting point there.



Oct 06, 2012 at 10:46 PM
Jon Guilbault
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p.57 #14 · p.57 #14 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


RX1 MTF charts now available from Sony.

Haven't had a chance to look. My main initial interest is whether these are calculated or measured.


EDIT: Direct link to Sony Hong Kong PR (PDF)



Oct 07, 2012 at 12:06 PM
Jon Guilbault
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p.57 #15 · p.57 #15 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


The chart shows only 10 and 30 lp/mm, but performance seems very high. However, these are numbers from Sony rather than Zeiss, the performance is likely calculated .


Oct 07, 2012 at 12:23 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.57 #16 · p.57 #16 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


The d600 appears to have a strong AA filter so no thanks.


Oct 07, 2012 at 01:34 PM
michaelwatkins
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p.57 #17 · p.57 #17 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


I didn't find the D600 image of Yosemite objectionable myself although I bet I'd be more tempted by the 800E but those would be for different uses than the little RX1. It is also unlikely the Sonnar 35/2 in the RX1 will churn out the same kind of output as the Zeiss 100MP.

The A99 incorporates a new anti-alias filter implementation that is supposed to reduce moirť without squashing detail; do we know how this is working out yet? I wonder if this tech is in the RX1?

All Sony has said so far is that the same basic sensor in the A99 is found in the RX1 but that implementation differences exist. Others have concluded the D600 has the same sensor, but there are bound to be differences between the sensor pack in Nikon's D600 and Sony's RX1 | A99.

Interview with Sony's Mike Weir, Senior Manager of Technology and Marketing
DE: Is the RX1ís sensor the same as the one in the A99? And if so, why is there no phase detect AF on the RX1?

MW: Well, the sensor is basically the same design, the same structure, the same generation of development, the same advantages in terms of sensitivity and dynamic range, it offers the 14-bit output. However, in the RX1, a variant of the sensor without phase-detection pixels was selected because the plan for the camera was for it to be contrast-AF from the beginning.




Oct 07, 2012 at 03:02 PM
philip_pj
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p.57 #18 · p.57 #18 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


What Mike is saying is that the sensor comes to the body from the same basic fab line out of the same design, but that the tuning is different, and whatever hit IQ may take from the PD material for the a99 is absent. It would surprise if the sensor was not further matched to the lens and dimensions incurred by the specific design of the RX1 - we'll see. I see no way performance will be less in the fixed lens camera, ceteris paribus.

For technical reasons Sony MTF charts give but the faintest inkling of cross frame performance - the shape of the lines as they snake across the chart provide a clue (corner to corner excellence), but do ignore the scale.

Look at what Zeiss have done at the back of the lens at the rumours site, not quite the run-of-the-mill rear element design, no? This feature alone opens up new ways of doing things due purely to the fixed lens / leaf shutter design. You could shave in the reflection of that piece, which no one will ever see (unless they tear the camera apart of course). I've never seen anything like it.

But ignore the text re MTF, made especially egregious by the inclusion of the ZM lens chart, which is a real performance measure with the usual 10/20/40 line pairs and Zeiss's usual 5lpmm scale marks:

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/here-is-the-rx1-35mm-zeiss-lens-resolution-chart/

'It is also unlikely the Sonnar 35/2 in the RX1 will churn out the same kind of output as the Zeiss 100MP.' Different eveything, teles are the easiest of lenses to make perform well, and the new 135/2 will eclipse the 100MP handily - by MTF actual performance, in much of the frame.The 35/2 is unlikely to disappoint. Perhaps CZ will write a white paper on the wide FL Sonnar primes sometime. I'm a CZ Sonnar fan anyway, for their signature.



Oct 07, 2012 at 09:19 PM
snowboarder
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p.57 #19 · p.57 #19 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


michaelwatkins wrote:
Comment on RX1 from Lloyd Chambers...



OMG, this image really s@cks! I haven't seen any image from this guy which would be spectacular.
Kind of reminds me LL and Michael R.



Oct 07, 2012 at 09:28 PM
michaelwatkins
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p.57 #20 · p.57 #20 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


On Chambers, I had a hard enough time avoiding commentary on his prose I'm not commenting on image content, just how it looks rendered compared to what I use today.

Philip I'm interested, maybe even a little excited, to see how this lens-sensor combo works. Tomorrow is the 8th; supposedly cameras are going in the hands of reviewers sometime tomorrow for a week long evaluation out in California. We'll have lots to pixel peep at and discuss soon enough, hopefully. With any luck high expectations will be largely rewarded for a change.



Oct 07, 2012 at 10:05 PM
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