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Archive 2012 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)

  
 
jonrock
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p.23 #1 · p.23 #1 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)


inglis wrote:
David Kilpatrick's presentation of two Sony design and production teams in competition, the Alpha team producing the Nex, and the Cyber-shot team producing the RX100 and RX1, is intriguing:


I also thought that was interesting. Does that mean the Cybershot team is in charge of merely producing the fixed lens cameras in the future like a new 1" RX-200 or an APS-C sized RX-10? Right now, the Cybershot group is outperforming the other Sony imaging groups. The RX-100 is probably going to entice other manufacturers to produce large sensor compacts. The RX-1 might lead to an interchangeable lens Nex from the Alpha group if internal competition is that great.



Sep 11, 2012 at 06:36 PM
freaklikeme
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p.23 #2 · p.23 #2 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)


jonrock wrote:
Right now, the Cybershot group is outperforming the other Sony imaging groups.


What's your criteria for that statement?



Sep 11, 2012 at 06:56 PM
fotografur
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p.23 #3 · p.23 #3 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)


rioni wrote:
Not sure if this is a final product or a prototype though.



Yes, that's what I was thinking.

I hope it's not Sony saying "We are going to make this" but they are planning a release of this camera soon!



Sep 11, 2012 at 07:04 PM
douglasf13
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p.23 #4 · p.23 #4 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)


dcjs wrote:
Forgive the crappy scetch, I hope it just serves it's purpose.

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp26/schraaat/flange_angle.jpg

The left side shows an exit pupil (green aperture) located close to the sensor (blue) with the "cone of light" (cyan) hitting the sensor at the angle a. The light bundle just clears the mount, which is close to the sensor. If you increase the distance of the mount (right/yellow) to the sensor while keeping the diameter constant, you can choose a more telecentric design (exit pupil further away from the sensor) and thus a steeper angle of incidence b, while still clearing the mount. This same cone of light
...Show more

dcjs, that sketch does a much better job of illustrating what I was trying to explain. Thanks.

I'm wondering exactly how a-mount lenses would even work with an adapter on a FF NEX?? It seems like the e-mount will get in the way of the light ray from the long exit pupils, but it's tough to say without plotting it all out. Do you think there is room for a-mount lens light rays to get around the e-mount? If not, that only leaves Sony with the option of building new FF e-mount lenses, but then they'll have to be more symmetrical, which causes a host of other issues.

For better or worse, I've been saying from the beginning that I think NEX stays aps-c for still cams. If you look at m4/3, EOS M, NEX, etc., all of the mounts are oversized compared to the sensor, and there's a reason for that.

To me, the RX1 signals the difficulties of making a FF NEX mount, rather than indicating that a FF NEX is on the horizon. Of course, I certainly hope I'm wrong.




Sep 11, 2012 at 07:10 PM
corposant
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p.23 #5 · p.23 #5 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)


What are the odds we see screw-in conversion elements to make this camera longer/shorter?


Sep 11, 2012 at 07:14 PM
douglasf13
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p.23 #6 · p.23 #6 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)


corposant wrote:
What are the odds we see screw-in conversion elements to make this camera longer/shorter?


I'm hoping such a thing happens. Fuji did a great job with the X100's wide converter.



Sep 11, 2012 at 07:16 PM
corposant
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p.23 #7 · p.23 #7 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)


douglasf13 wrote:
I'm hoping such a thing happens. Fuji did a great job with the X100's wide converter.


I am usually skeptical of these sorts of things, but it's designed by Zeiss, I feel... a little bit better...?



Sep 11, 2012 at 07:17 PM
douglasf13
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p.23 #8 · p.23 #8 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)


corposant wrote:
I am usually skeptical of these sorts of things, but it's designed by Zeiss, I feel... a little bit better...?


Yeah, Fuji was able to do it, so I'm sure Zeiss can.



Sep 11, 2012 at 07:19 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.23 #9 · p.23 #9 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)


douglasf13 wrote:
I'm wondering exactly how a-mount lenses would even work with an adapter on a FF NEX?? It seems like the e-mount will get in the way of the light ray from the long exit pupils, but it's tough to say without plotting it all out. Do you think there is room for a-mount lens light rays to get around the e-mount? If not, that only leaves Sony with the option of building new FF e-mount lenses, but then they'll have to be more symmetrical, which causes a host of other issues.

For better or worse, I've been saying from the beginning
...Show more

One solution to the FF NEX might be to have the actual mounts as a separate, modular piece - the mount is not part of the camera body.. That way, you buy the A mount or E mount and use whichever you need.



Sep 11, 2012 at 07:26 PM
douglasf13
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p.23 #10 · p.23 #10 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)


Tariq Gibran wrote:
One solution to the FF NEX might be to have the actual mounts as a separate, modular piece - the mount is not part of the camera body.. That way, you buy the A mount or E mount and use whichever you need.


Good idea, although I wonder how easy/hard it would be to make connectors for the two mounts that are any less robust than the mounts them selves, so that they'd stay out of the way?



Sep 11, 2012 at 07:32 PM
rattymouse
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p.23 #11 · p.23 #11 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)


carstenw wrote:
I don't recall anyone wanting a fixed-lens AF LCD-only (possibly with an attachble EVF) $2700 camera.

What people wanted, at least here on FM, was a FF CSC, i.e. interchangeable lenses. The bad thing about this camera is that the presumably excellent lens will depreciate very fast, along with the sensor and the body, as new sensors are released. Even if there was only the only lens in the system, it would be great if it could be transferred to a new body, in 2 years or so.


That's true for gear chasers, but less important for photographers. We have long since passed what film is capable of and have reached a point where new sensors offer less advantage over the previous ones. Yes there may be the odd bit of improvement but it is less and less.

The world's most iconic photographs have been made with lesser gear than this and if you cant with this new Sony, a new, better sensor isnt going to be the reason why.




Sep 11, 2012 at 07:32 PM
douglasf13
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p.23 #12 · p.23 #12 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)


I figure, the A900 is still very good, despite being 4 years old, and it is just now being replaced. Many users still shoot the 5D and D700, too. I can imagine that the RX1 will still be rather cutting edge in 4-5 years, and usable for much longer. I do wish they went ahead and used the 36mp sensor, though.


Sep 11, 2012 at 07:37 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.23 #13 · p.23 #13 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)


douglasf13 wrote:
Good idea, although I wonder how easy/hard it would be to make connectors for the two mounts that are any less robust than the mounts them selves, so that they'd stay out of the way?


Yeah, I don't know. I'm sure they could figure something out. Of course, they would likely never do what I would really like to see - a complete modular system where the mount/grip body are one solid piece, minus the sensor/lcd and finder (they offer one for A and one for E). The sensor is a flattened back with the LCD which plugs into the body (the body comes flush with it on both right and left). The EVF/ OVF goes on top and is interchangeable with the RX1! It would look sort of like a mix of what Ricoh does but the sensor is not part of the mount or lens.



Sep 11, 2012 at 07:50 PM
iskraII
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p.23 #14 · p.23 #14 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)


new leaked photo of RX1 from chiese site xtek








Sep 11, 2012 at 09:47 PM
rattymouse
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p.23 #15 · p.23 #15 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)


That lens sure looks like a nice hunk of glass! Very very exciting.




Sep 11, 2012 at 09:56 PM
ken.vs.ryu
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p.23 #16 · p.23 #16 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)


that sensor looks gigantic in that tiny frame.


Sep 11, 2012 at 09:58 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.23 #17 · p.23 #17 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)


rattymouse wrote:
That's true for gear chasers, but less important for photographers. We have long since passed what film is capable of and have reached a point where new sensors offer less advantage over the previous ones. Yes there may be the odd bit of improvement but it is less and less.

The world's most iconic photographs have been made with lesser gear than this and if you cant with this new Sony, a new, better sensor isnt going to be the reason why.



Yes, but 99.99% of the market is gear chasers not photographers making the most iconic photographs. I know I want a IL mirrorless FF body with no AA filter that can use my Leica M mount lenses. I am sure Sony would take my desire more seriously than that of a real photographer. After all, I pay for my gear, unlike the real photographers.



Sep 11, 2012 at 09:58 PM
loudtiger
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p.23 #18 · p.23 #18 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)


wow, the pricing on accessories is definitely ballsy:

The Cyber-shot RX1 compact, fixed lens camera will be available this November for about $2800.
The FDA-EV1K electric viewfinder and FDA-V1K optical viewfinder will each be available at launch for about $600 and $450, respectively.
The thumb grip, lens hood and jacket case will also be available at launch for about $250, $180 and $250, respectively.



Sep 11, 2012 at 10:05 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.23 #19 · p.23 #19 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)


Wow, they're going Leica Intro Level pricing for this thing.


Sep 11, 2012 at 10:07 PM
rattymouse
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p.23 #20 · p.23 #20 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)


edwardkaraa wrote:
Yes, but 99.99% of the market is gear chasers not photographers making the most iconic photographs. I know I want a IL mirrorless FF body with no AA filter that can use my Leica M mount lenses. I am sure Sony would take my desire more seriously than that of a real photographer. After all, I pay for my gear, unlike the real photographers.


The Leica M9 meets your criteria.




Sep 11, 2012 at 10:17 PM
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