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Archive 2012 · High fps backup camera
  
 
kezeka
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p.1 #1 · High fps backup camera


I am posting this more to try and gather information on the 1d mkii n than anything but here it goes.

Best and brightest: I am picking up a year long job that involves some sport shooting. Currently I just have a 5d2 and rebel 350d - nothing too outstanding for sporting events. I am planning on selling the ancient 350d and grabbing a camera that can handle the occasional sporting event and generally serve as a second camera for event photography (the majority of my work). Currently, I have been looking at picking up a 1d mkII n because of its outstanding build quality and weather sealing (a glaring hole in my current lineup) and most importantly it's high frame rate. It's relatively low resolution isn't an issue for me. Nor is the high ISo performance (that's what the 5d2 is for). This is a camera for capturing action and doing it in Crappy weather. The question comes in at this: is it worth the extra money to jump up to a 7d or even a generally well used and beaten to hell 1d mkIii? I would rather not have to deal with a majorly cropped 1.6x sensor (main beaf with 7d). What are the major negatives to shooting with the 1diin? Are there any critical problems that they have been running into? Will I be pushing a little too far into the lifespan of the camera by buying one at this point?

I look forward to reading your responses and learning more about this (these) cameras in the process.



Aug 24, 2012 at 06:19 AM
Liquidstone
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p.1 #2 · High fps backup camera


I don't shoot sports (except the occasional surfing shots), but I've used extensively the 7D and 1D2 at BIFs. Even if the extra reach is disregarded, I'd choose the 7D for action shooting because AF speed and fps are very similar. The 7D with new FW has even a deeper buffer, plus the LCD is much nicer. Current serviceability also favors the 7D. Lastly, at higher ISOs (beyond ISO 800), I like the processability of the 7D files more.

About the only areas where the 1D2(n) beats the 7D are better weather-sealing and a few more AF points. The 1D2(n)'s AF at f/8 is immaterial at action shots because it's slow in the first place, works only with the centerpoint and the 7D has a longer reach than the 1D2(n) + 1.4x TC if used with the same lens anyway.

The 1D2(n) were excellent, leading edge action cameras in their time. But technology has moved on.



Aug 24, 2012 at 09:25 AM
Mike Mahoney
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p.1 #3 · High fps backup camera


It's easy to get caught up in forum chat about older camera shortcomings but once the shooting is done and the prints are on the wall you won't see much if any difference between a 1D2N file and one taken with a "newer" technology.

Better batteries, bigger LCD's, easier menus, and other advancements may make your shooting day go a little bit easier but don't show in the image quality.

Based on the OP's requirements (capturing action in crappy weather) the 1D2 wins over most any other camera on a price to performance basis. They are truly great bodies available at value prices.



Aug 24, 2012 at 09:59 AM
cocodrillo
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p.1 #4 · High fps backup camera


Let's put it this way, I still have a 1D ii and still use it to shoot sports. Absolutely nothing wrong with the camera. You can shoot right up to 3200 if you nail the exposure and use noise ninja or something like that.

Keep in mind that you can shoot sports quite nicely with at 5D ii, as well.

None of the other Canon stable of cameras feel/respond/satisfy like the 1D series. They just seem a bit more responsive and a bit better organized.

So... no... not worth the extra dough to go to a 7D or 1D iii.



Aug 24, 2012 at 10:27 AM
kezeka
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p.1 #5 · High fps backup camera


Are there any repairs typically required on a camera reaching the age most 1dmkiin's are getting to outside of shutter replacements? I fear anecdotal horror. Stories about buying a "Ferrari" on the cheap and having to still pay the extensive repair bills. Especially for a backup camera.


Aug 24, 2012 at 12:47 PM
Hammy
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p.1 #6 · High fps backup camera


I mainly shoot with MarkIIn bodies - sports. I bought a 7D for some high ISO static shots and a few times used it to cover action. I've also used the 5D2 for sports once.

I can say that the 5D2 is pretty decent for covering action, but it doesn't have that "be ready NOW" to take a shot when I depress the shutter button.

The 7D is definately an improvment in responsiveness, speed and extra reach with the crop sensor, but it is still only about 75-80% of what a Mark2n is. I'm sure some of it is having 5 years of history with the Mark2n bodies, knowing which functions will get me better results - some of which the 7D simply doesn't have.

I believe any camera can yield satisfactory results, once you know it's limitations and work around them. With the 1D series, you have so much more flexibility in 'programming' it, that you get much better results that much easier because it has the algorithms to drive the lenses more accurately.

Limitations of the Mark2N:
- older display screen, compared to the 7D, images look dull and soft, but are actually just as sharp or shaper when downloaded
- high ISO limitation, but you know this and have other options. I'll use 1600 all day with a little NR and 3200 when I have to.
- some 'personal' functions have to be activated via FW cable and software - not critical ones, but alot of capability is has and can utilize, aren't readily accessible to the user unless first set by software.
- Near EOL expectancy. I think the MarkII just got the axe from CPS repair on the last go around, I would expect the IIn to be dropped shortly. However, they're built like a tank. I commonly go through 300,000-500,000 shutter actuations PER YEAR on each of my bodies, maybe having a shutter failure prematurely 1-2 times in the past 5 years (otherwise, I pre-emtively repair them every year... after 300,000+ shots when I have some downtime.)

I think a MarkIIn would be a great addition to get your sports coverage well covered with minimal frustration of missed shots. Like any technology, as you know, it's not going to be a 5 year investment camera, but once you get hooked on 1D performance, you'll have your sights set on a 1D-X next year!



Aug 24, 2012 at 02:43 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #7 · High fps backup camera


The lightning quick shutter response of the 1D II & II N and superior AF / large battery to drive large glass and its better AF in lower light are the reasons why I chose my 1D II's. The 8FPS is smooth as silk ... a well oiled machine.

I can't speak to the newer 7D ... but I'd imagine that once you've shot a 1D II / II N and felt the responsiveness of it you'll take notice. I don't shoot sports, but rather nature, but "catching the moment" still remains a product of responsiveness and speed.

And if you are ever in need of higher ISO performance, today's ACR can take the raw files and do much more than the camera's jpgs can. The lower resolution is a "put off" to many, but I dig the larger pixels for various reasons (i.e. noise/diffraction, etc.)

I would say this though ... the II N does a better job @ buffering than the II. Most people go for the II N because of the larger LCD, but for an old "film" shooter ... it isn't that important to me, but I have noticed "on occasion" the buffering diff with various CF cards where the II N was a (small) notch above the II.

Again, not sure @ the 7D, but the II / IIN has dual card slots. I shoot my raw's to the CF and my jpgs to the SD. Nice to have the split / backup / versatility option.

Another aspect of the 1.3x crop factor is that you are essentially "autocropping" out the weaker edges / corners of your glass, so those areas are never an issue since you're using FF glass anyway.

I use my FF for landscape and other static work. If motion is involved ... 1D II / II N. My only regret @ my 1D II / II N is that I paid a different price when I got mine than what they are available for today ... but then I've also had the chance to use them sooner. Take one out for a spin ... it'll be like the first time you drive a Porsche instead of a Chevy.




Aug 24, 2012 at 03:29 PM
jerrykur
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p.1 #8 · High fps backup camera


I would consider a 1DMK3. They have really dropped in price recently and have compared to the 1dMK2s have better IQ, ISO performance, battery life with lighter weight and the same menu system as your 5D.




Aug 24, 2012 at 03:42 PM
kezeka
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p.1 #9 · High fps backup camera


Out of curiosity - how much does it cost to replace the shutter on the 1dmkIIn Hammy? It sounds like other than that, the camera is essentially bomb proof - which is exactly what I am looking for. I realize that it is only "weather resistant" but have you had the misfortune of using it in downpour with a sealed lens? Any problems?

Jerrykur - while I would love to pick up a heavily used 1DmkIII, they still cost double what a used mkiin is going for. Most of the reasons I would buy the mkIII over the mkIIN are already covered by my 5D2 so it is difficult to justify the extra $700. Did they ever sort out the AF problems going on the mkIII that were ever so publicized?


Again, I appreciate the responses. I just haven't paid much heed to the 1D part of the camera world since they don't typically fit into my budget.



Aug 24, 2012 at 04:22 PM
 

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jerrykur
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p.1 #10 · High fps backup camera


kezeka wrote:
Jerrykur - while I would love to pick up a heavily used 1DmkIII, they still cost double what a used mkiin is going for. Most of the reasons I would buy the mkIII over the mkIIN are already covered by my 5D2 so it is difficult to justify the extra $700. Did they ever sort out the AF problems going on the mkIII that were ever so publicized?


I understand the cost aspect, but to me the 1DMK3 is a different camera from the 1DMK2. When I upgraded I was surprised at how big the difference was. It is hard to put my figure on it, but the 1DMK2 felt so old and odd by comparison. This feel difference is important if you are thinking about switching between the 5DMK2 and your back camera. The way you set controls (mode, ISO, etc) is different on 1 series and on top of that the 1DMK2 and 1DMK1 throws in different menu systems. I always find myself fumbling for a moment or two when I transitioned back and forth. Not what you want in a backup camera on a shoot. Then there is the ISO difference. "Where did I put those lights?"

I believe the AF issues have been settled. Mine is fine. But even today the magic words "my 1dMK3 doesn't seem to be focusing correctly" strikes fear into Canon Service and will get you a free checkout.




Aug 24, 2012 at 04:45 PM
Hammy
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p.1 #11 · High fps backup camera


kezeka wrote:
Out of curiosity - how much does it cost to replace the shutter on the 1dmkIIn Hammy?


I'm CPS Platinum, so I get the 60% redux on repair labor (the whole reason I'm Platinum). I'd have to find my last repair, because I know it went up. It used to be like $194.60 for a few years - I remember seeing something just under $200. Now, it's somewhere around $260 - which I still don't mind. Again, most of my repairs are pre-emptive, as opposed to pushing a shutter past 500,000 (>twice it's expectancy) and being without it for a needed shoot - even though CPS has been really good in getting the camera back to me before I even get an email from them saying they have it!


kezeka wrote:
I realize that it is only "weather resistant" but have you had the misfortune of using it in downpour with a sealed lens? Any problems?


I guess I've never been in a downpour with the body. I've shot in the rain several times, thought nothing of it and everything worked out fine - mostly drizzle+ type rain.
They would either call the games for heavier stuff, I'd shoot from cover or I'd grab a Hefty brand performance hydro repelling low density polypropylene water shield which works in a pinch.



Aug 24, 2012 at 05:08 PM
Jeff_Stapleton
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p.1 #12 · High fps backup camera



They would either call the games for heavier stuff, I'd shoot from cover or I'd grab a Hefty brand performance hydro repelling low density polypropylene water shield which works in a pinch.



Haha.... otherwise known as "trash bag"



Aug 24, 2012 at 08:15 PM
Ghost
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p.1 #13 · High fps backup camera


I used to have a 1d2n. Replaced it with the 7d. I really don't miss the 1d2n. It's a nice camera. But the weight is a pain for those days when all you want is to go on a day trip. The 7d loses nothing IMHO on speed and AF. In fact the spot AF on all AF points allowed for pin-point accuracy on subjects obscured by tree branches or fences.
In a pinch I can switch to movie mode.
The 7d's ability to remap most of its button functions is really great for ergonomics. This is where 1d2/n really stumbles.

Nostalgia aside, I feel the 7d is the better camera over the 1d2/n.




Aug 24, 2012 at 08:36 PM
kezeka
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p.1 #14 · High fps backup camera


Ghost - Good to hear from a prior 1d2n user who switched over. Most of the reasons you cite for being happy to switch to a 7D I have already fulfilled with my small-ish 5D2 so I am still not sure it is worth the extra money over a 1d2n. Was the weight that big of a hassle to deal with? I would likely be using it for an hour or two at a time with a 70-200 glued to it but am in relatively good shape (though lazy nonetheless).

Hammy - I appreciate the response and trash bin humor. So the cost to replace a shutter would run about $500 - about as much as I will be paying for the camera! Yikes! Good to know though. I too regularly use a Glad Super Duty Weather Shield (tm).

Jerrykur - I remember toying around with a friend's 1d2n a few years back and being completely befuddled by it compared to my rebel. You mention the menu system as being a critical shift toward a more user friendly GUI. Were there any other significant changes to the human-camera interface that made it substantially better? Still not sure lowering the learning curve is worth $700 though .


Again, thank y'all for your time!



Aug 24, 2012 at 10:49 PM
dwweiche
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p.1 #15 · High fps backup camera


I was debating adding either a 1DIIN or a 1DIII. I already owned a 7D and a 5DII.

Since my "sports" shooting was never focal-length limited, I had the freedom to switch from my 1.6X crop 7D to a 1.3X crop 1D-series and be able to enjoy the IQ benefits from a larger sensor. I also wanted a dust/water resistant camera and something that was designed for sports.

These are some of the reasons I went with a 1DIII over a 1DIIN:
1) 10 fps vs. 8 fps. I already had 8 fps capability with the 7D so a 1DIIN didn't improve anything.
2) Autofocus micro-adjust, which is not available on the 1DII-series. (I haven't needed it yet, but wanted the security.)
3) No need to fuss with Firewire, buy cables, get a Firewire port, etc... On a 1DIII everything can be done over USB using the Canon SW I already have installed on my PC.
4) Larger rear LCD screen vs. the 1DII-series (but not as nice as the 7D)
5) 1DIII is newer, thus longer service life from Canon should I ever need it.
6) I got an extremely clean camera with all accessories, and extra OEM battery from a great seller here on the FM Buy and Sell board for a great price. The camera had gone through the AF recall fixes at Canon. More beat up 1DIII's can be had for even less than what I paid and the delta between that and a 1DIIN is probably less than $700. The "bad rap" of the 1DIII and the recent release of the 1DX have really increased 1DIII supply and driven down prices.

Now when I know I'm going to shoot action/sports, I take the 1DIII. When I know most of my shots will be static or low light, it's the 5DII. My 7D has seen its use drop significantly, but I will still take it when I'm not sure what type of shooting I might encounter, or when I know I'm going to be focal-length limited.

Good luck!



Aug 25, 2012 at 02:51 AM
rscheffler
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p.1 #16 · High fps backup camera


Jeff_Stapleton wrote:
Haha.... otherwise known as "trash bag"


I prefer the clear bags intended for recycling. Just cut them down somewhat so they're not so huge. Biggest disadvantage is if it's windy as they tend to balloon. A lot cheaper than the Aquatech cover I was eventually shamed into buying by a colleague... Problem with the rain cover is it takes up a lot of space when packed, whereas the garbage bag takes almost no space.

kezeka wrote:
Ghost - Good to hear from a prior 1d2n user who switched over. Most of the reasons you cite for being happy to switch to a 7D I have already fulfilled with my small-ish 5D2 so I am still not sure it is worth the extra money over a 1d2n. Was the weight that big of a hassle to deal with? I would likely be using it for an hour or two at a time with a 70-200 glued to it but am in relatively good shape (though lazy nonetheless).


If you're doing something like a running race where you're shooting 1-2 hours straight, non-stop, you will want to use a monopod, no matter the camera. The IIN will be kind of heavy and the combo will be uncomfortable if hand held constantly at the ready for that long (speaking from experience). If it's mostly outdoor work in daylight, the 70-200 f/4L (IS or not) is a really nice alternative. Much lighter, optically excellent and very fast AF. Have barely shot with a 70-200 f/2.8 since getting the f/4 back in 2007.



Aug 25, 2012 at 03:00 AM
rscheffler
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p.1 #17 · High fps backup camera


dwweiche wrote:
I was debating adding either a 1DIIN or a 1DIII. I already owned a 7D and a 5DII.

Since my "sports" shooting was never focal-length limited, I had the freedom to switch from my 1.6X crop 7D to a 1.3X crop 1D-series and be able to enjoy the IQ benefits from a larger sensor. I also wanted a dust/water resistant camera and something that was designed for sports.

These are some of the reasons I went with a 1DIII over a 1DIIN:
1) 10 fps vs. 8 fps. I already had 8 fps capability with the 7D so a 1DIIN didn't improve anything.
2)
...Show more

IDIII also matches the UI of the 7D and 5DII much more closely. I actually liked the 1DIIN two button push implementation, because I was used to it ever since the EOS-1, but when mixing body types, it's pretty frustrating at times to have seriously different UI styles. You're also going to get many more shots per charge compared to the IIN, and the batteries are smaller and lighter.



Aug 25, 2012 at 03:11 AM
kezeka
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p.1 #18 · High fps backup camera


Thanks for the help everyone. Going to be doing some personal cost:benefit analyses to figure out whether the mkIII is worth it to my business over the mkiin. Glad I have some first hand knowledge from this thread to help with the decision though.


Aug 25, 2012 at 05:23 PM





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