Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

Sports Corner Rules
Sports Corner Resource
  

FM Forums | Sports Corner | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       end
  

Archive 2012 · Who needs viewing stations....?
  
 
Fish On
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Who needs viewing stations....?


My business partner(fellow FM'er Ralph Thompson) got notified about this Cal Ripken All State tournament just last Thursday afternoon. 24 teams(8's & 9's) with games starting Friday. Unfortunately, we were not able to shoot the games that got played Friday(6 teams). Shot the rest of the 18 teams all day Saturday and got the pics printed at the local Costco. Ralph was stuffing binders late Saturday night and we finished stuffing the good part of this morning while games were going on. We supplied each team with about 400 photos average in each binder.

We also did on-site printing of custom 8x10's and regular 8x10's and 4x6's of some of the teams that didn't get shot Friday afternoon and any special requests.

Our main purpose for accepting the job at short notice was to get contacts established with some of the local leagues in order to get the T&I business later on.

Here's is Ralph at work at the printing area:






Here is our old fashioned viewing stations(binders with photos):







Jul 02, 2012 at 05:08 AM
cocodrillo
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Who needs viewing stations....?


Okay, this raises a question I've got for the big-time and medium event shooters.... say you use a platform like Photoshelter for your archiving and sales. Photoshelter will let you set up unique galleries and if you fiddle the code you can set up unique search entry points from a custom webpage. So, given that hordes of folk are walking around with smart phones and ipads, has anybody jumped on this get rid of / reduce viewing stations and letting people use mobile telephony to find their photos and then place the order? This of course assumes you've key worded competitor or team names.

Sean



Jul 02, 2012 at 09:52 AM
Geoffrey Bolte
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Who needs viewing stations....?


Fish, I get that this is an opportunity to pick up T&I clients, thats basically why we do tournaments, but what is the ROI considering you probably spent close to $4000 on prints. You could easily pick up a small onsite viewing set up for around $2k and use it multiple times. Let alone we shoot on average 200 per game, and at 24 teams times a minimum or 3 games is 7200 shots if you divide the teams in half...

Coco, there is one main thing you are forgetting about. Web access to upload the potential 10s of thousands of photos from one day. When on site at a baseball complex or the like outdoors there is little chance of having decent WIFI access. Indoors is another story, but you don't always have access or you have to pay and exorbitant amount to use it.... Let alone our mobile broadband while getting better isn't fast enough, or cheap enough, considering you would easily use up your LTE bandwidth limit uploading images in one weekend.




Jul 02, 2012 at 10:59 AM
Fish On
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Who needs viewing stations....?


@Geoffrey - ROI on prints is about $800 for this tournament. We bring it to Costco and it cost us .10 cents per print. We shoot only 1 game per team(3 innings) in order for us to cover all teams otherwise it's a non-ending cycle of " I didn't like the shots of my son, can you shoot the next game?" and as mentioned earlier, we provide about 400 shots per team.

We don't put the pics online as we have found out that there are hardly any online sales after the tournament.



Jul 02, 2012 at 01:22 PM
P Alesse
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Who needs viewing stations....?


Agree... that on-site is the way to go.
Agree... few sales if any after tournament.
Agree... getting your name out there for T&I gigs, although, most decisions made by boards have nothing to do with your action shot quality.

What I have found though, after several years of doing baseball, is that half games wind up being more of headache than doing full games. What I'm noticing more than ever is that pitch counts are forcing coaches into using several pitchers per game. Long gone are the days of six inning pitchers. In some of these little guy tourneys (8U), there's a new pitcher every inning.

Not only does that give more potential for sales, but if you're not there shooting the last three innings and Little Johnny is pitching, you'll get more complaints on the shots that you DIDN'T get as opposed to the ones you DID get.

There's somewhat of a remedy if you incorporate guaranteed coverage pre-sale deposits, but as a rule, half games can be risky.



Jul 02, 2012 at 01:58 PM
RyanL
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Who needs viewing stations....?


Ugh...from a coaches perspective...pitch count is getting ridiculous. Actually the rest time is what really is crazy.


Jul 02, 2012 at 02:29 PM
Frank Lauri
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Who needs viewing stations....?


Paul Alesse Wrote: What I'm noticing more than ever is that pitch counts are forcing coaches into using several pitchers per game. Long gone are the days of six inning pitchers. In some of these little guy tourneys (8U), there's a new pitcher every inning.

I agree 100% here with this. It is getting sheer crazy. I'd hate to be the official scorekeeper in some of these games....I've notices that with some....someone modifies the scoresheet to be able to accomodate so many changes.

I'm in th eprocess of shooting an 8/9 Tournament and in one game yesterday....there were nine (9) pitching changes. That alone added about an hour extra to the game.

But with these and other substitutions....players may not make the cut if only shooting half the game.

Last year I started offering game DVD's for this same tournament and the popularity has grown where leagues are contacting me to do regular season games as well. So once I get some free time I want to start a marketing campaign for next season to get some additional leagues to take advantage of it. I figured I would ask the District Administrator for an invitation to one of the President's meetings and give a presentation. I believe there are 33 different leagues in our Little League District and hopefully I can get some additional clients there....whether T&I or game action.

Frank



Jul 02, 2012 at 02:51 PM
Ralph Thompson
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Who needs viewing stations....?


In my market, I've tested veiwing stations (football championships) using an adhoc network W/ iPads, though pretty slick, sales were down.

Low tech resulted in better sales, but way longer hours! I've posted on line before with little or no sales. but what you have to remember is can you post youths without permission from the parent organization? The leagues aren't authorized to make that call. There was no WiFi at this facility, so stuff binders or upload all night.

The incoming and outgoing league presidents where at this tournment for the two big local leagues I market to. I set up a display with my T&I products.... Board members from both leagues approached me and said, We gotta get you in front of our board, your work is outstanding (ref the T&I).. so we'll see, but maybe's grow up to be nos.

Why do we only shoot one game? Parents only buy so many prints.... If you shoot every game, you increase overhead, labor but no so much an increase in sales. Parents will wait to buy until your done shooting. When their team loses, their down and walk off without buying anything.

Regarding the pitch count, We're set up to go shoot a pitcher or a substitute who didn't get in a game. I've got a couple dye subs and can print out those "make up" shots pretty easy. I only do 1-3 tournaments each summer, only local, so it'd take quite a while to recoupe my investment on viewing stations... When I ran the test on football and it really didn't work as well as I'd hoped, I went low tech for Baseball.




Jul 02, 2012 at 03:12 PM
P Alesse
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Who needs viewing stations....?


There is nothing wrong with proof books. We did them for years and it worked well. It does take a lot more work, but it's still a better solution than putting them online. I still maintain that once they see the image and know they can take it home with them, albeit online, you have lost the sale. They have to buy then and there... or at least 90% of your sales have to be then and there. I don't think it's even debateable. On-site sales will always do better than online sales.

That being said, anyway you can get the images to the customers, whether it be viewstations, proof books, 4 x 6 all you can grabs, etc, and most important, have a system in place for customers to find those images quickly, will most definitely be a better sales model than card 'n go (here's our card, order online).

Match that with a sales booth that is attractive and eye catching in a prime location, a professional staff of photographers and salespeople that all have staff shirts that are connecting with the parents, and a well diffused marketing campaign and you have a lot of the necessary components in place for a successfull tournament.

It's hard work though. For all those people that tell me... work smarter, NOT harder... they have no clue what it takes. You need to do BOTH in order to have any chance of success in this business.

BTW... Ralph, it's nice to match a name with a face. Great job.



Jul 02, 2012 at 04:06 PM
Ralph Thompson
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Who needs viewing stations....?


Thanks Paul, You hit the nail on the head! We got late notice on this and my regular tournament crew wasn't available on short notice! I have one photographer/salesperson/photoshop expert that wasn't available... My oldest son is working swings at the TNT fireworks warehouse so he was out of the mix... My yongest son, 17 just wanted to shoot, which is ok, he has a good eye but wastes too many shots (we're too busy to chimp his work), I'll train him later... but all in all we did well for pulling off a 24-team event with no warning.

Oh by the way, Jerry didn't get my good side....oh wait, I don't have a good side.... His photos were at the end of the second 16 hour day with 4 hours sleep. I went in last night like a lawn dart. Getting old sucks!



Jul 02, 2012 at 05:32 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



cocodrillo
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Who needs viewing stations....?


Geoffrey -- no disagreements from me on your point. I've been spoiled with the few events like this I've done. Track meets where I have access to internet trunk lines... VERY fast uploads. I guess I'm curious if anyone has tried capturing phones/ipads as viewing stations. Heck, I guess if you know what you're doing you could set up a local, non-internet wifi network direct to your on-site server that viewers could hook into.


Jul 03, 2012 at 02:00 AM
clarence3
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Who needs viewing stations....?


Ralph Thompson wrote:
In my market, I've tested veiwing stations (football championships) using an adhoc network W/ iPads, though pretty slick, sales were down.


cocodrillo wrote:
I guess I'm curious if anyone has tried capturing phones/ipads as viewing stations. Heck, I guess if you know what you're doing you could set up a local, non-internet wifi network


Sounds like Ralph tried that.



Jul 03, 2012 at 02:50 AM
glort
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Who needs viewing stations....?



Geez your game leaving those camera's on the table like that.
If anyone wanted them they would have them for sure and be long out of the place before anyone knew it.



Jul 03, 2012 at 06:01 AM
penpro
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Who needs viewing stations....?


Interesting thread, we were talking about just this in another thread where Paul had lots of words of wisdom as well.

I'm considering developing a mobil app based system that would run off local or 3G/4G. Local is what I gather you pros will need for the most part because of the volume. The idea would be that there is a free app parents can add to their phone that would connect to the local wifi and connect to your data base. From there parents would be able to select images, send them to print or upload to facebook, pay with different pay methods and even cash as they could select their images, press go then come to the viewing station to pay where you would just need to approve the purchase that would send them to print.

I would think that uploading to face book if I can get something like that working would be an interesting option for every one here as it would remove the cost of printing. You could charge far less for an image but make more profit on it I would think. You would have to tell me if that is true as I don't know what you are charging at the moment.

The cost of viewing stations would go down as you would need a decent computer, router and a few printers. The parents already have the viewing stations in hand. Maybe also provide a few iPads as well for those that have not or will not join the era of the smart phone.

Ralph already mentioned that he has tried something like this but it was not this refined so maybe that would make it easier for the parents. Once parents are used to using a system like this they will already have the app on their mobile and will be looking for the hot spot to grab a couple photos of the day.

Is there any interest in this sort of setup? I'm always looking for app ideas to develop.



Jul 03, 2012 at 12:49 PM
luketrot
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Who needs viewing stations....?


Penpro,

I'm looking for an app that would tell me where to find Bluefin tuna in the Gulf of Maine. I often fish 20-40 miles offshore so it needs to work without cell service.

As for your idea of using customers phones/iPads as viewing stations. I have thought about this many of times. Just not sure I could get enough customers to install apps on their phones to justify the expense and marketing. Those technical enough to find and install my app would likely not be my target audience.

While we are on the subject of what I want.. I want Photocart to integrate with Facebook making it very easy for kids and parents to share our images online. However when we set our images to expire from our site the images would be removed from Facebook with an option to order them.

Luke



Jul 03, 2012 at 03:29 PM
sowega
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Who needs viewing stations....?


penpro wrote:
I would think that uploading to face book if I can get something like that working would be an interesting option for every one here as it would remove the cost of printing. You could charge far less for an image but make more profit on it I would think. You would have to tell me if that is true as I don't know what you are charging at the moment.



I would only be interested if the 'facebook photo upload' required a photo purchase as well. Printing costs are very low. Example, supplies cost (ink/paper) for my 5x7 dye sub are about 35 cents per photo. I sell these for $10.00 others sell them as high as 15$. I would certainly sell them a facebook upload for a buck or two as an 'add on sale', but I cant see how selling a 'digital download' could be more profitable than printed pic sales. I fear it would actually decrease profit margins due to less parents buying what we are there to sell.



Jul 03, 2012 at 03:57 PM
Ralph Thompson
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Who needs viewing stations....?


glort wrote:
Geez your game leaving those camera's on the table like that.
If anyone wanted them they would have them for sure and be long out of the place before anyone knew it.



Jerry posed that photo... He said, "hey let's take one for the forum".... Funny thing was (well not so funny because it could have gone terribly wrong) a couple minutes after the photo was taken, we got a "heads up!" and my 400 which was completely under the canopy took a fould ball off the hood! too close for me!



Jul 03, 2012 at 04:29 PM
Ralph Thompson
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Who needs viewing stations....?


sowega wrote:
I would only be interested if the 'facebook photo upload' required a photo purchase as well. Printing costs are very low. Example, supplies cost (ink/paper) for my 5x7 dye sub are about 35 cents per photo. I sell these for $10.00 others sell them as high as 15$. I would certainly sell them a facebook upload for a buck or two as an 'add on sale', but I cant see how selling a 'digital download' could be more profitable than printed pic sales. I fear it would actually decrease profit margins due to less parents buying what we are there
...Show more


We had a couple folks ask for digital files. Some for facebook or computer wallpaper etc... Most wanted to buy the digital file because they wanted to go to Coscto and make their own 20x30 instead of us making our $$ from the print. I feel the customer out on it. I tell them if they buy an $80 poster, I email them a proof before I print it, they can use that low res file for their phone... Most walk away...



Jul 03, 2012 at 04:35 PM
luketrot
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Who needs viewing stations....?


Sowega,

I never suggested or implied selling Facebook uploads. I actually agree with you regarding offering single image digital downloads. My thought is to integrate our sales cart with Facebook to reach as many customers as possible. The image products do not have to include digital uploads. Many of our viewers already take screenshots of our images and post them on Facebook. By having the software do it for them we would retain better control over our images.



Jul 03, 2012 at 04:51 PM
penpro
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Who needs viewing stations....?


My thought on selling faceBook uploads is that you might get a lot of people that would not have purchased a print at $10 but might buy 5 low res face book uploads for 99 cents. Idea is to make it really fast and simple for the purchaser. I didn't know that you guys were printing for 35 cents a print, that is really good so it might not be cheaper or more profitable when measured one to one but it might increase sales. It might also take sales away from prints. That sort of thing could be configurable by you if you want it or not.

Apps have an advantage over web sites and that is you can restrict what the user is able to do with it. So they can't just down load or screen grab. If they take a pic of one phone with another well that is up to them but they wouldn't be getting much. And again, make it so easy to just buy it for cheap that is what they would rather do.

Case and point is jail broken iPhones. I know I can jail brake it but why bother when apps are so cheap. How many games do you have on your phone for your kids that you just grabbed because it looked cool and it was only 99 cents.



Jul 03, 2012 at 06:33 PM
1
       2       end




FM Forums | Sports Corner | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Reset password