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Archive 2012 · OM-D & PEN Images

  
 
carstenw
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p.7 #1 · p.7 #1 · OM-D & PEN Images


How do you know that is the lens?

I am following your blog (with some difficulty, I am not that good at Swedish), and I am a little sad that you feel there is such a difference in the IQ compared to the 5N. I am sure that there will be some, but I get the feeling that you will leave the OM-D system the first time you feel it has left you disappointed with a photo.

I don't own the E-M5, just an E-PL3, but within its constraints (and I do have a D800 next to it for the heavy lifting), the IQ is great, as long as I expose correctly, and the light is ample and close to daylight.



Jul 29, 2012 at 04:48 PM
Makten
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p.7 #2 · p.7 #2 · OM-D & PEN Images


carstenw wrote:
How do you know that is the lens?


I don't, but I suppose so since I get much better results from using a Leica or Zeiss lens on the 5N and cropping to the MFT equivalent area. It would be very strange if this tiny and relatively cheap Panasonic was as good as lenses for thousands of dollars.

I am following your blog (with some difficulty, I am not that good at Swedish), and I am a little sad that you feel there is such a difference in the IQ compared to the 5N. I am sure that there will be some, but I get the feeling that you will leave the OM-D system the first time you feel it has left you disappointed with a photo.

I don't own the E-M5, just an E-PL3, but within its constraints (and I do have a D800 next to it for the heavy lifting), the IQ is great, as long as I
...Show more

Yeah, sure the IQ is great. But I'm picky and I didn't expect the noise to be that much worse than the 5N. But I don't think that matters too much, because the IS saves me like 3 stops. Regarding the colors, I'll have to try the M glass on the OM-D first and an adapter will be sent to me this next week.

I doubt there will ever be a digital camera that I like everything about. Olympus got this one right, but where the heck is the glass?? They don't even have a standard prime.



Jul 29, 2012 at 05:00 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.7 #3 · p.7 #3 · OM-D & PEN Images


The Panasonic 25mm F1.4 is a standard prime, one of the best AF standard primes under $1000.

Where they're hurting is that there is no excellent fast 17mm.



Jul 29, 2012 at 05:23 PM
carstenw
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p.7 #4 · p.7 #4 · OM-D & PEN Images


Yes, but Panasonic != Olympus...

I see the point, but in this range there is no OIS anyway, so the only difference it makes is the aperture chatter. Is there some other reason you want an Olympus standard, Martin?

Yes, the in-body stabilization is awesome, and this is how MFT really pulls close to NEX levels of IQ. Comparing like for like, the smaller sensor has to lose somewhere, but I am surprised to hear that the noise is so different. I expected around 1 stop, no more.

Edited on Jul 29, 2012 at 05:31 PM · View previous versions



Jul 29, 2012 at 05:30 PM
Makten
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p.7 #5 · p.7 #5 · OM-D & PEN Images


FlyPenFly wrote:
The Panasonic 25mm F1.4 is a standard prime, one of the best AF standard primes under $1000.

Where they're hurting is that there is no excellent fast 17mm.


I was talking about Olympus, not Panasonic. I don't give a damn about the brand, but how could they release such a retro styled camera with no standard prime? No, instead they bundled it with the ridiculously plasticky 12-50 zoom! WTF?!



Jul 29, 2012 at 05:31 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.7 #6 · p.7 #6 · OM-D & PEN Images


Yeah, I really don't know why they made such a good high end 75mm without covering the other bases first.


Jul 29, 2012 at 06:01 PM
sebboh
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p.7 #7 · p.7 #7 · OM-D & PEN Images


FlyPenFly wrote:
Yeah, I really don't know why they made such a good high end 75mm without covering the other bases first.


they did the same thing with regular 4/3.



Jul 29, 2012 at 06:14 PM
curious80
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p.7 #8 · p.7 #8 · OM-D & PEN Images


Makten wrote:
I was talking about Olympus, not Panasonic. I don't give a damn about the brand, but how could they release such a retro styled camera with no standard prime? No, instead they bundled it with the ridiculously plasticky 12-50 zoom! WTF?!


I wont comment about 12-50mm as I have no experience with it. However I don't see why should olympus release yet another standard prime for the system when the system already has a 20mm and a 25mm. It doesn't do the users any good if both olympus and panasonic duplicate the same lens offerings. The strength of m43 lens offerings (at least compared to other mirrorless brands) has been partly because of the fact that panasonic and olympus offerings complement each other. I hope they don't go this path of replicating existing lenses instead of covering new focal lengths. Once they have covered most focal lengths then sure by all means they can go and fight each other in lenses.



Jul 29, 2012 at 06:19 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.7 #9 · p.7 #9 · OM-D & PEN Images


If they made a compact and weather sealed 25mm F1.8, that would have been really interesting.

Yet, I really do want a 17mm F1.4 more than any lens for MFT.



Jul 29, 2012 at 06:27 PM
curious80
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p.7 #10 · p.7 #10 · OM-D & PEN Images


sebboh wrote:
they did the same thing with regular 4/3.


Hmm actually with 4/3 one of the most common complaint was lack of primes, as olympus mostly concentrated on zooms. With m43 there is already a wider array of primes of various price points including 12 f2, 14 2.5, 17 2.8, 20 1.7, 25 1.5, 45 1.8 and 45 2.8 macro. I don't see this being the same as 4/3 at all. So the 75mm 1.8 seems a pretty logical choice. The other top contenders would probably be equivalents of the 14-50mm 2.8-3.5 that olympus had in the 4/3 days or the 12-60mm.



Jul 29, 2012 at 06:28 PM
curious80
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p.7 #11 · p.7 #11 · OM-D & PEN Images


FlyPenFly wrote:
If they made a compact and weather sealed 25mm F1.8, that would have been really interesting.

Yet, I really do want a 17mm F1.4 more than any lens for MFT.


I could see the need for a 17mm 1.4 as the 17 2.8 from olympus almost doesn't count. The 25mm 1.8 might be interesting but I don't think that in the context of the overall system, it make sense to release such a lens right now.

Even with Canon and Nikon with their abundant lens offerings, I can think of many more desirable lenses



Jul 29, 2012 at 06:34 PM
cputeq
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p.7 #12 · p.7 #12 · OM-D & PEN Images


I could see the market bearing a cheap 25 1.8, that way, users could choose between "clinical" Olympus optics or "character" PL optics (I went for the PL, can't wait for it to arrive)

That said, a 17 1.4 would be awesome.
I'm curious also to see the 35-100, very useful range, but I'm fearful of how large the lens is going to be.



Jul 29, 2012 at 06:38 PM
bobbytan
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p.7 #13 · p.7 #13 · OM-D & PEN Images


You've answered your own question here. It doesn't make sense to expect a lens costing only $359 to perform as well as a lens costing say 10x more. Likewise, as superb as the $900 Zuiko 75/1.8 lens may be, it should not be compared to a Canon 200/2 costing $6,000.

Having said that, there are some really great MFT lenses, like the 7-14/4, 12/2, 25/1.4, 45/1.8, 45/2.8 macro, 60/2.8 macro, 75/1.8, 12-35/2.8 ... and some fast f0.95 prime lenses from Voigtlander. I am pretty sure the new Schneider lenses will be superb as well.

Makten wrote:
I don't, but I suppose so since I get much better results from using a Leica or Zeiss lens on the 5N and cropping to the MFT equivalent area. It would be very strange if this tiny and relatively cheap Panasonic was as good as lenses for thousands of dollars.




Jul 30, 2012 at 12:20 AM
sebboh
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p.7 #14 · p.7 #14 · OM-D & PEN Images


curious80 wrote:
Hmm actually with 4/3 one of the most common complaint was lack of primes, as olympus mostly concentrated on zooms. With m43 there is already a wider array of primes of various price points including 12 f2, 14 2.5, 17 2.8, 20 1.7, 25 1.5, 45 1.8 and 45 2.8 macro. I don't see this being the same as 4/3 at all. So the 75mm 1.8 seems a pretty logical choice. The other top contenders would probably be equivalents of the 14-50mm 2.8-3.5 that olympus had in the 4/3 days or the 12-60mm.


i was thinking of them making the 150/2 before making any normal primes. but yes, making nearly no primes was the general version of the no normal primes complaint.



Jul 30, 2012 at 12:38 AM
JeffG
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p.7 #15 · p.7 #15 · OM-D & PEN Images


Makten wrote:
It's sharp and nice, but the colors are just dull..



what raw converter are you using? do you have camera profiles for the 5n and e-m5?

todays' raw converters are using predefined data stored in the raw file that is used to create jpegs as a starting point automatically. i find it annoying to say the least.


Makten wrote:
I don't, but I suppose so since I get much better results from using a Leica or Zeiss lens on the 5N and cropping to the MFT equivalent area.




nevermind what i just said. you are comparing an inexpensive, plastic lens made by a company that specializes in things not related to photography to lenses that can cost $5k each??

have you considered simply getting adapters for those lenses on your e-m5? because nothing but a leica or zeiss is going to duplicate leica or zeiss colors/contrast


something else to consider is that the e-m5 underexposes the raw file vs. the jpeg settings by up to 2.0 EV. if you are shooting straight raw you will want to dial in some exposure compensation. if you are shooting jpg+raw you have a choice to make - burn hightlights in the jpg or deal with extra noise in the raw.



Jul 30, 2012 at 01:40 AM
carstenw
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p.7 #16 · p.7 #16 · OM-D & PEN Images


bobbytan wrote:
You've answered your own question here. It doesn't make sense to expect a lens costing only $359 to perform as well as a lens costing say 10x more.


JeffG wrote:
nevermind what i just said. you are comparing an inexpensive, plastic lens made by a company that specializes in things not related to photography to lenses that can cost $5k each??


While expensive lenses are obviously better than cheap lenses in general, I feel that it is a bit knee-jerk to answer in this manner. Are you both positive that the 20/1.7 suffers from poor colours? I have not heard such an accusation before. The weaknesses of this lens are normally described as being rendering style and boke.

I would rather suspect a combination of factors, including the raw developer and/or profile used. Martin, have you tried another program? Have you tried shooting the E-M5 and 5N side by side to compare more directly?

JeffG wrote:
have you considered simply getting adapters for those lenses on your e-m5? because nothing but a leica or zeiss is going to duplicate leica or zeiss colors/contrast


Here is a quote from Martin from a few posts before yours:

Makten wrote:
Regarding the colors, I'll have to try the M glass on the OM-D first and an adapter will be sent to me this next week.


JeffG wrote:
something else to consider is that the e-m5 underexposes the raw file vs. the jpeg settings by up to 2.0 EV. if you are shooting straight raw you will want to dial in some exposure compensation. if you are shooting jpg+raw you have a choice to make - burn hightlights in the jpg or deal with extra noise in the raw.


Interesting point. I have not heard that before? If true, that could be partly responsible for the muddy colours. Then maybe it is time to play a bit with UniWB: http://www.guillermoluijk.com/tutorial/uniwb/index_en.htm



Jul 30, 2012 at 03:40 AM
Makten
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p.7 #17 · p.7 #17 · OM-D & PEN Images


bobbytan wrote:
You've answered your own question here. It doesn't make sense to expect a lens costing only $359 to perform as well as a lens costing say 10x more. Likewise, as superb as the $900 Zuiko 75/1.8 lens may be, it should not be compared to a Canon 200/2 costing $6,000.

Having said that, there are some really great MFT lenses, like the 7-14/4, 12/2, 25/1.4, 45/1.8, 45/2.8 macro, 60/2.8 macro, 75/1.8, 12-35/2.8 ... and some fast f0.95 prime lenses from Voigtlander. I am pretty sure the new Schneider lenses will be superb as well.


I prefer to compare equivalents, so the 75/1.8 should be compared with a 150/3.6 and the 20/1.7 should be compared with a 40/3.4. In that case, think you could expect them to be pretty good, and they are. I just don't see "it" with the 20, while the reasonably cheap Voigtländer 15/4.5 is awesome on the 5N; at least as good as my Zeiss glass. So it's not all about cost.

JeffG wrote:
what raw converter are you using? do you have camera profiles for the 5n and e-m5?

todays' raw converters are using predefined data stored in the raw file that is used to create jpegs as a starting point automatically. i find it annoying to say the least.


I use the latest ACR available for CS5 and the default settings give much, much better colors than the in-camera JPG:s. But I haven't downloaded any specific profiles yet, and that might be a good idea.

have you considered simply getting adapters for those lenses on your e-m5? because nothing but a leica or zeiss is going to duplicate leica or zeiss colors/contrast

Not yet but it's coming. A bit useless though, since I'm not very interested in tele photography.

something else to consider is that the e-m5 underexposes the raw file vs. the jpeg settings by up to 2.0 EV. if you are shooting straight raw you will want to dial in some exposure compensation. if you are shooting jpg+raw you have a choice to make - burn hightlights in the jpg or deal with extra noise in the raw.

I shoot RAW + JPG and I haven't seen any difference in exposure. Though, the camera often wants to underexpose when using matrix metering, but the compensation dial is very handy.



Jul 30, 2012 at 04:28 AM
JeffG
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p.7 #18 · p.7 #18 · OM-D & PEN Images


http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1041&thread=42050631&page=1.

in a nutshell, the e-m5 is underexposing raws relative to the jpg output by up to 2.0 ev.

i used to sell cameras. never would i compare anything to a leica lens or a zeiss t*. it's just silly to do so. the lenses made by people that are not leica or (mostly) carl zeiss are mass produced.

i own nothing by leica. it's beyond my means financially and i would suspect by a lot of other people as well. but i have used them before in both digital and film and would not expect that look on anything that is not leica - especially leica M mount lenses.




Jul 30, 2012 at 07:00 AM
Antje
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p.7 #19 · p.7 #19 · OM-D & PEN Images


Makten wrote:
Is this thread already dead? I'm in the countryside with only the OM-D and 20/1.7, and while getting the hang of the camera and starting to like it really much, I'm not impressed with the lens. It requires A LOT of PP to get close to what I want.


Very nice pictures, Makten! I feel the same about the 20/1.7 - I try to love it, but can't.

Antje



Jul 30, 2012 at 07:05 AM
CalW
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p.7 #20 · p.7 #20 · OM-D & PEN Images


After buying the Pan-Leica 25mm f1.4, I soon stopped using the Pan 20mm because its images now seemed "dull" to me. So I sold the 20mm. "Smaller lens" in this case simply wasn't worth obtaining less quality, to me. Compared to my 1Ds2 with any lens, any m43 body with the P-L 25mm feels small enough! I am not claiming that the 20mm is a bad lens - it is good for what it is - but it just isn't the best lens available for m43 in the normal range.

Edited on Jul 31, 2012 at 10:30 AM · View previous versions



Jul 30, 2012 at 07:23 AM
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