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Archive 2012 · How fast is your light?

phuang3
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · How fast is your light?

I got Elinchrom 600Rxs, and it's rated 1/2080 t0.5. The following image is my first try on liquids, but it turns out a bit fuzzy on water drops. I understand the power ratio will affect the flash duration. This shot was taken under 1/3 of total power, so it's slower than 1/2080. From my observation, I assume I need at least 1/4000 to freeze the action. (maybe 1/8000) According to Elinchrom, only a portable light head will offer this capability. Which lighting equipment are you guys using for this kind of shot?

http://www.pbase.com/phuang3/image/143591629/original.jpg

May 27, 2012 at 10:19 PM

alohadave
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · How fast is your light?

Hot shoe flashes or any IGBT studio flash will work well for this type of shot.

You could also turn up the power on your flash to see if 1/2080 will work.

May 27, 2012 at 10:49 PM

phuang3
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · How fast is your light?

alohadave wrote:
Hot shoe flashes or any IGBT studio flash will work well for this type of shot.

You could also turn up the power on your flash to see if 1/2080 will work.

Could you name a few IGBT studio flash?
Forgot to say, I did tried the full power just for testing, and it did not gain any visual improvement. So, I assume 1/4000 is the minimum requirement.

May 27, 2012 at 10:55 PM

alohadave
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · How fast is your light?

May 27, 2012 at 11:57 PM

rico
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · How fast is your light?

phuang3 wrote:
Could you name a few IGBT studio flash?
Forgot to say, I did tried the full power just for testing, and it did not gain any visual improvement. So, I assume 1/4000 is the minimum requirement.

High-end packs from Broncolor (Scoro) and Profoto (Pro-8a, D4) employ IGBT. While I don't shoot anything as dynamic as splashing ice cubes, my D4 1200 and Twin head yield a t0.5 of 1/7500s @ 150J. That's ample light for closeups, regardless of modifier. Note that IGBT cutoff is abrupt, so t0.1 is not the customary 3x slower. On this scale, the economical choice is a set of thyristor flash.

May 27, 2012 at 11:57 PM

phuang3
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · How fast is your light?

Thanks for the info, guys. I've heard that by using a HSS capable hotshot flash to trigger studio lights may solve the problem, pretty much like the PW HSS mode. Has anyone tried that? Does it work on 600RX?

May 28, 2012 at 12:30 AM

aborr
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · How fast is your light?

+1 on rico's comment about small thyristor flashes.

Use a smaller light, placed close.

Small flashes, like the Canon 580ex, are _much_ faster than studio lights. The lower the power setting on a 580ex, the shorter the flash duration. (This is the reverse of a lot of studio lights, where duration is inversely proportional to the power setting.)

A 580ex is on the order of 1/833 second at full power, but around 1/15,000 second at 1/16 power. It's even shorter at 1/128 power, maybe 1/35,000 second.

If you need more power, and you want to use your Elinchrom accessories, you can always buy an older (analog) Elinchrom EL250 (standard duration) or an EL250R sports ("rapid") monolight. They're pretty common used. The EL250 was about 1/3600 @ t.5 and the EL250R was around 1/6000 (when both units were set to full power at 250 w-s). Unfortunately, the EL250 and EL250R had their shortest duration at full power, unlike Canon speedlights which get faster when power is reduced.

May 28, 2012 at 12:45 AM

rico
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · How fast is your light?

phuang3 wrote:
Thanks for the info, guys. I've heard that by using a HSS capable hotshot flash to trigger studio lights may solve the problem, pretty much like the PW HSS mode. Has anyone tried that? Does it work on 600RX?

If Eli 600RX is a simple varistor-based strobe, then its lowest energy setting will be the slowest and, therefore, a candidate for HSS activity. Between the low energy setting on the strobe and the high shutter speed on the camera, the resulting light level will be very low. I think the best approach in a studio - where you control the ambient - is fast strobe discharge at camera X sync.

May 28, 2012 at 12:49 AM

phuang3
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · How fast is your light?

Aborr,

Your comment is very helpful, thanks. Now, I wonder why Elinchrom did not come out something like EL250R for their current indoor strobes.

Rico,

I got 580EX and 54Mz4i in hand. All I need is just two E-TTL hot shoe extension lines, I will try them first.

May 28, 2012 at 01:17 AM

rico
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · How fast is your light?

Please post results when available. I'll then reproduce your ice-drop image with my own 550/430EX combo, and Profoto gear. Advancement through science.

May 28, 2012 at 01:24 AM

phuang3
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · How fast is your light?

Sure, I will post the result.

BTW, an electronic shutter DSLR like Nikon D70 is very useful here.

May 28, 2012 at 01:53 AM

Mark_L
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · How fast is your light?

phuang3 wrote:
Thanks for the info, guys. I've heard that by using a HSS capable hotshot flash to trigger studio lights may solve the problem, pretty much like the PW HSS mode. Has anyone tried that? Does it work on 600RX?

This is a good thing to try, use an HSS/auto FP capable speedlight to trigger your strobe set at full power. Then try different shutter speeds until you get frozen droplets. You will waste a LOT of flash power since you are basically using it as a continuous lightsource and most of it's flash wont register in the exposure since the flash duration is longer than the shutter speed.

I'd try a speedlight on it's own first though and increase ISO if you need more light.

May 28, 2012 at 05:23 AM

phuang3
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · How fast is your light?

Yes, that's what I am going to do. Fortunately, this kind of shot does not need large flash, a speed light will do.

May 28, 2012 at 08:36 AM

Skarkowtsky
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · How fast is your light?

Canon speedlites and vintage Speedotron Blackline

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m168/jl122/rasp.jpg

May 29, 2012 at 02:22 PM

RustyBug
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · How fast is your light?

alohadave wrote:
Alien Bees Einstein is one that I know for sure.

Just for clarity ... ONLY the Einstein, not the Alien Bees (400, 800, 1600) uses IGBT circuitry in the Paul Buff product line.

May 30, 2012 at 04:45 AM

kenyee
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · How fast is your light?

rico wrote:
High-end packs from Broncolor (Scoro) and Profoto (Pro-8a, D4) employ IGBT.

AFAIK, the Profoto isn't pure IGBT like the Scoro and Einstein...it's some odd pre-ignition hybrid.
Bronco posted a blog article about it and how some fashion shooter couldn't freeze fabric motion w/ the Profoto and had to use Scoros....

p.s., tried freezing water drop splashes w/ an old Speedo Blackline quad head (supposedly their fastest head), but I think t.1 was only 1/800...that's way too slow. I'd say multiple speedlights at lowest power in a dark room are one sure way. Or an Einstein/Scoro setup at lowest power...

May 30, 2012 at 09:29 AM

Skarkowtsky
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · How fast is your light?

Same light setup as previous photo. Don't mind the debris: it's oxygenated tap water for this test shot.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m168/jl122/plop.jpg

May 30, 2012 at 11:56 AM

phuang3
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · How fast is your light?

Thanks for sharing. Did you find Canon speedlight at 1/32 or 1/64 is powerful enough for your shot?

May 30, 2012 at 07:18 PM

Skarkowtsky
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · How fast is your light?

I find that it's a range that's different every time, depending on f/stop, background lighting, focal mm, distance, size of subject. Best bet is to map out the shot in mind, then set power for best clarity and balanced exposure.

May 30, 2012 at 08:09 PM

rico
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · How fast is your light?

kenyee wrote:
AFAIK, the Profoto isn't pure IGBT like the Scoro and Einstein...it's some odd pre-ignition hybrid.
Bronco posted a blog article about it and how some fashion shooter couldn't freeze fabric motion w/ the Profoto and had to use Scoros....

I read that article. IGBT and PiPE (pre-ignition) are separate features. Pro-8 can clearly suffer image ghosting because pre-ignition generates enough light to impact main lighting at low energy settings. At high energy settings, the ghosting is insignificant, and discharge proceeds at record-breaking speeds. No PiPE for the D4, thank god.

The D4 as spec'ed, and as tested by me, operates exactly as an IGBT design: faster discharge at lower energy settings, invariant color temperature at all energy settings, independent energy settings of .1 EV for each of the four outlets. Finally, the pack doesn't dump energy when settings are lowered: the capacitors retain the existing charge! I confirmed this behavior with an ammeter. If I were even more curious, I'd open the pack to read off the IGBT part number.

May 31, 2012 at 12:00 AM

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