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Archive 2012 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!
  
 
pompo
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p.5 #1 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


arbitrage wrote:
Hey pompo,
No you don't see the red at all in outdoor light. This is different than the 5D2 and most previous Camons other than the 7D. The thing is is that with my 5D3, the black focus points are extremely easy to see and therefore I don't see why I need the red color outside in bright light because the black colour is the perfect contrast. Even when I tested earlier this evening shooting towards the forested hillside it was still easy to see the black box focus points. I do realize that on the 5D2 you can see the
...Show more


I see the black focus points but sometimes they become very dim in bright light and almost disappear, plus I hate to look at the bottom green light to confirm my focus when the red lit AFf point would do it better. The red haze is driving me nuts and people I have shot actually commented on it too, I Imagine using this camera on the set of movies would be causing troubles due to the red light showing through the lens from the front. I sure hope the 1Dx will not operate the same way...The 1D MIV doesn't so we will see I think you might be right tho, is the way the illumination is generated that's causing most of these probs, it comes from the sides of the VF



Mar 31, 2012 at 06:08 AM
arbitrage
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p.5 #2 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


pompo wrote:
I see the black focus points but sometimes they become very dim in bright light and almost disappear, plus I hate to look at the bottom green light to confirm my focus when the red lit AFf point would do it better. The red haze is driving me nuts and people I have shot actually commented on it too, I Imagine using this camera on the set of movies would be causing troubles due to the red light showing through the lens from the front. I sure hope the 1Dx will not operate the same way...The 1D MIV doesn't so
...Show more

Yes the red light is generated differently and therefore there will be no fixing that issue. Canon could fix the issue that would allow the AF point to blink once when starting focus but it wouldn't show in bright light.
However, your comment about the black squares dimming is not normal. Mine are crisp, black and strongly black always. I think you do have a defective VF. I'm not sure how the VF works and what projects the black squares but what you describe is not normal. I have both the 7D and 5D3 and I"ve shot with the 7D for 2 years and have never had the black squares look dim. I really think you should look into getting an exchange done with the store you bought from or see if you know anyone with another 5D3 or 7D and see if you can borrow it for a few hours to see if you have the same problem. Basically, the black squares should be clear crisp and dark at all times.



Mar 31, 2012 at 06:15 AM
pompo
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p.5 #3 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


Jim Heine wrote:
Used this camera tonight around dusk. Nothing too crazy...like iso1600 1/160, f2.8. I couldn't see focus points worth a darn unless they were up against a white backdrop. Serious drawback to this camera for wedding photogs. When I need to the autofocus right away to capture a key moment, I can't take the time to hit the extra button to illuminate them. Even the autofocus confirm light takes forever. With the 5d2 the point lit up when it got pretty close to in focus. The 5d3 hunts a bit more to find the perfect focus before it lights up.
...Show more

You should ask for a firmware update as I did here; I agree with you!
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/professional/professional_cameras/eos_digital_slr_cameras/eos_5d_mark_iii/form_display/support_by_email?WT.mc_id=C126149



Mar 31, 2012 at 06:30 AM
pompo
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p.5 #4 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


arbitrage wrote:
Yes the red light is generated differently and therefore there will be no fixing that issue. Canon could fix the issue that would allow the AF point to blink once when starting focus but it wouldn't show in bright light.
However, your comment about the black squares dimming is not normal. Mine are crisp, black and strongly black always. I think you do have a defective VF. I'm not sure how the VF works and what projects the black squares but what you describe is not normal. I have both the 7D and 5D3 and I"ve shot with the 7D for
...Show more


yes I would have to try someone else's and see, Thanks !



Mar 31, 2012 at 06:31 AM
Hrow
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p.5 #5 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


It sounds like the 5D3 viewfinder works just like the 7D. That's truly unfortunate. Sure it works, but there are times when it is a major PIA compared to the way it works on a 1DsMkIII.

With the 1DsMkIII, as soon as you hit the focus button in either Servo or One Shot the active focus point lights up as red. You know instantly what is active and whether you have to change it to suit your composition. In One Shot it flashes again when focus is acquired. Very fast under any conditions.

With the 7D if you are in One Shot it will flash when you have acquired focus. That's great except since you may not know where your focus point was to begin with. It really slows things down because you often can't start to set a new focus point until you have focused on something in the wrong part of the frame to find the active focus point. To those who say, "well, I can see the black square easily" that's fine, sitting in a controlled environment. Wait till you try to find it against a black tux in bad light and you have to react instantly to an unexpected moment at a wedding. For those day light sports shooters, wait until the square is on someone's dark pants in a pile-up when you want to put the active point on someone's face and you can't find quickly as you scan the viewfinder. You may be able to find it now, but that's not always going to be true - guaranteed.

In Servo it is even more fun, it never goes to RED. To have it light up you have to hit the joystick. If you are using the * Button to focus that means you have to take your finger off of the focus button to do so which means that you aren't ready to shoot.

Is the 7D system workable? Sure, it is just a lot slower than the way Canon did it on the 1DsMkIII and I assume other cameras and at times very disorienting as you'll find yourself searching for the focus point. Shouldn't have to work this way in a pro level camera.

Someone said, that maybe 7D users didn't know enough to complain. To that person I simply respond - Bite Me. You are probably the same person who asked me "why do expect professional features in a consumer camera" when I complained about it two years ago.





Mar 31, 2012 at 02:00 PM
Ziffl3
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p.5 #6 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


Yohan Pamudji wrote:
Yeah, so while the problem with single AF while not ideal might not be huge (at some point it'll probably lock focus and you'll see where the AF point is when it lights up red, at which point you can move it or your composition if need be), AI Servo in dim lighting could be a real issue because the red box never comes up. AFAIK on every other Canon camera except for the new LCD overlay viewfinder cameras (7D, 5DIII, and most likely 1DX) the active point lights up red at the beginning of AF including in AI
...Show more

As a 7D (plus 1DsII) wedding shooter - i have never had an issue in low light situation.

But i turn all AF positions viewable: OFF.
This leave the actual Active AF point, in what ever mode (small spot/spot/extend), viewable.
I should include the cluster AF option.

I disable "All points AF" (default). This sucks and how can a camera decide the AF point of interest. it can not.

I use the joy stick to move AF point. it is fast - plus push down and the AF point comes back to center.


Activating the meter or AF on the back button, the joy stick is live .... you can move the point around.
This is pretty darn fast, say instant.







Mar 31, 2012 at 02:13 PM
M Vers
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p.5 #7 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


This is pretty disheartening news, for sure. My 5DIII should be here early next week--I'm hoping the issue isn't as bad as it sounds.


Mar 31, 2012 at 02:22 PM
Hrow
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p.5 #8 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


M Vers wrote:
This is pretty disheartening news, for sure. My 5DIII should be here early next week--I'm hoping the issue isn't as bad as it sounds.


In slowing moving situations it isn't a big deal. In the heat of the moment you will be asking WTF more than once. Bouncing back and forth between cameras that operate differently may make the problem more apparent.



Mar 31, 2012 at 02:28 PM
netexpress
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p.5 #9 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


Did I miss something? If I press the AF-On or press the shutter half way the joy stick does not allow me to select the auto-focus point as described. I have to hit the AF Selection button first and then the joystick kicks in so there is another step involved which take me aware of focusing and shooting. Can this be customized so the joystick is active to select the AF point merely by pressing AF-On or holding the shutter down half way? Because that would be a plus.

So far I like:

AF Point Display during focus" = Selected (constant)
VF Display Illumination = ON
Selectable AF Point = Only Cross-Type AF Points
AF Area Selection Method = AF Selection Button + Main Dial

The red glow permeates the whole viewfinder and obscures details and lowers visual contrast. This was a bad idea. I surely hope they didn't use it in the 1D X but it sounds like did.

Also I keep on reaching for the rear dial that the 1D series has and its not there!

HeHeHe!

Old habits die hard!



Mar 31, 2012 at 02:29 PM
netexpress
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p.5 #10 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


Oh and if I sounds grouchy it's because I'm still drinking my Peet's coffee out here on the left coast. I get nicer after my second cup.




Mar 31, 2012 at 02:32 PM
 

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SeverianTL
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p.5 #11 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


Ziffl3 wrote:
As a 7D (plus 1DsII) wedding shooter - i have never had an issue in low light situation.

But i turn all AF positions viewable: OFF.
This leave the actual Active AF point, in what ever mode (small spot/spot/extend), viewable.
I should include the cluster AF option.

I disable "All points AF" (default). This sucks and how can a camera decide the AF point of interest. it can not.

I use the joy stick to move AF point. it is fast - plus push down and the AF point comes back to center.

Activating the meter or AF on the back button, the joy stick is
...Show more

+1
Been saying this all along. This method is very quick and easy to see and use.

The "All points" AF is really only useful in AI servo, and even then only in limited situations when you need the ability for the system to hand off tracking to additional points when you have a very hard time keeping the initial AF point on target due to erratic target movement (or abysmal technique ).



Mar 31, 2012 at 02:32 PM
netexpress
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p.5 #12 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


M Vers wrote:
This is pretty disheartening news, for sure. My 5DIII should be here early next week--I'm hoping the issue isn't as bad as it sounds.


I started to read these comments last week and had trepidation about my 5D III coming in. I was surprised a bit to see it was actually true. But what I don't know is how much it is going to be a real issue for me or if this is something I will adapt to. Maybe it'll all be second nature. I haven't actually gone out and shot the camera yet! Just had an hour last night to take a test movie, a few shots inside a dark house and learn the menus, customize the camera and learn the new flash system. So take what I say with a big grain of salt! OK? For me it may be more of what I am used to.

If you haven't tried it yet - on the very first menu select "External Speedlite Control" with a Canon flash attached. You can control everything in the Speedlite from the 5D III LCD. That is a real treat. So there are positives here too.



Mar 31, 2012 at 02:37 PM
M Vers
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p.5 #13 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


Hrow wrote:
In slowing moving situations it isn't a big deal. In the heat of the moment you will be asking WTF more than once. Bouncing back and forth between cameras that operate differently may make the problem more apparent.


I still can't figure out what good purpose such an implementation serves...seems counter intuitive to leave a selected AF point essentially hidden until focus using that point is achieved. You would need to remember where, exactly, the point you have currently selected is in relation to the frame and blindly guide that area over the point in the scene that you want in focus...hopefully by the time the camera locks it'll be in the right spot.


Edited on Mar 31, 2012 at 02:39 PM · View previous versions



Mar 31, 2012 at 02:39 PM
AGeoJO
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p.5 #14 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


M Vers wrote:
This is pretty disheartening news, for sure. My 5DIII should be here early next week--I'm hoping the issue isn't as bad as it sounds.


Matt, it is not bad as some folks here described the situation to be.



Mar 31, 2012 at 02:39 PM
SeverianTL
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p.5 #15 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


netexpress wrote:
Did I miss something? If I press the AF-On or press the shutter half way the joy stick does not allow me to select the auto-focus point as described. I have to hit the AF Selection button first and then the joystick kicks in so there is another step involved which take me aware of focusing and shooting. Can this be customized so the joystick is active to select the AF point merely by pressing AF-On or holding the shutter down half way?...

Like I said on the first page of this thread: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1099852/0#10494225
Hit the Q button and go into the custom control settings. There you can set the multi-controller/joystick to "AF point direct selection"



Mar 31, 2012 at 02:39 PM
M Vers
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p.5 #16 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


AGeoJO wrote:
Matt, it is not bad as some folks here described the situation to be.


but perhaps I'll be among those people ...



Mar 31, 2012 at 02:40 PM
netexpress
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p.5 #17 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


Ziffl3 wrote:
I disable "All points AF" (default).



Where is this option?

I appreciate the pointers. Obviously there is seven years of 5D system experience here that I need to catch up on.

Also for birds I'm thinking of trying Case 4 for subjects that accelerate or decelerate quickly with the AF Point auto switching set to zero.



Mar 31, 2012 at 02:45 PM
AGeoJO
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p.5 #18 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


M Vers wrote:
I still can't figure out what good purpose such an implementation serves...seems counter intuitive to leave a selected AF point essentially hidden until focus using that point is achieved. You would need to remember where, exactly, the point you have currently selected is in relation to the frame and blindly guide that area over the point in the scene that you want in focus...hopefully by the time the camera locks it'll be in the right spot.


I believe this needs to be clarified. It is not hidden, the active AF box is there but not lit. I don't see any difference in this case with the 5D Mark II in that case. Actually, it is a tad worse with the 5D Mark II. You don't see which AF point is active although since we are mostly relying on the center AF point, you just use the center AF point as the starting AF point. In the 5D Mark III, you can clearly see the big box of the active point, while the non-active points are represented as small boxes or you can turn them off. I hope this helps.

Joshua



Mar 31, 2012 at 02:47 PM
netexpress
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p.5 #19 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


SeverianTL wrote:
Like I said on the first page of this thread: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1099852/0#10494225
Hit the Q button and go into the custom control settings. There you can set the multi-controller/joystick to "AF point direct selection"


Oh dude! You just made my day. That is perfect - now it's more like my 1D. I hit the AF-On or depress the shutter half way and use my thumb to go to the joystick and select AF points. I don't have to hit the AF Selection button so my fingers stay on the shutter. This is perfect! Much better!

We need to write up a quick setup HOWTO for the 5D newbies here.



Mar 31, 2012 at 02:53 PM
arbitrage
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p.5 #20 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


AGeoJO wrote:
I believe this needs to be clarified. It is not hidden, the active AF box is there but not lit. I don't see any difference in this case with the 5D Mark II in that case. Actually, it is a tad worse with the 5D Mark II. You don't see which AF point is active although since we are mostly relying on the center AF point, you just use the center AF point as the starting AF point. In the 5D Mark III, you can clearly see the big box of the active point, while the non-active points are represented
...Show more

Exactly, it is no different except for the red color can't be seen in daylight and the active point doesn't flash red until it focuses. But it does flash red every time you move it with the joystick. People are really blowing this out of proportion. I really think pompo has a defective LCD. There is no way the black squares should ever fade so that he can't see them and that is what he stated last night.



Mar 31, 2012 at 02:57 PM
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