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Archive 2012 · Important question re: Apple vs other displays

Sharona
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Important question re: Apple vs other displays

Important to me anyway.... I've posted here about my travails with the ASUS ProArt and thought I'd get it figured out, but then this morning had issues with the monitor flashing from my working screen to a bright green one. Back and forth, back and forth. After calling ASUS and trying to reset settings to factory ones, and doing other trouble shooting, we've determined it's likely a faulty monitor, so back to B&H it goes.

My question is regarding displays - The Apple displays seem so much clearer, sharper, etc... but is this just fooling the eye, and making files look better than they do? For those editing on Macs - do you calibrate the display as you would the other brands? What is the consensus on editing on Apple screens, i.e. the iMAc desktops, Cinema Display, etc?

Thanks for any discussion here; I have to decide whether to give ASUS another shot or try something else.

Cheers, Sharon
Edit - I'm hooked up from my 2011 Macbook Pro 17-inch, via mini displayport to HDMI adapter and HDMI cable.

Feb 04, 2012 at 12:56 PM

howardm4
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Important question re: Apple vs other displays

the general consensus tends to be that there are better 'for photography' monitors than the Cinema's for similar pricing. Some of the Dell's like the 2410, there are a couple of HPs and of course the NEC PA series.

Feb 04, 2012 at 01:17 PM

Sharona
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Important question re: Apple vs other displays

Yeah, Howard, but I am completely clueless as to how to set these up for processing.

Feb 04, 2012 at 01:34 PM

Monkey Falls
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Important question re: Apple vs other displays

What are your questions about setup? The standard setup is, 1) Connect to your computer; 2) Plug it in and turn it on; 3) Let it warm up for half an hour; 4) Calibrate it with your favorite calibration device. And you're done.

Do you have questions about calibration?

If your question is which display is best, then you should do some internet searches. You will find strong opinions regarding brands and individual models.

Unless you are doing very critical work, the bottom line is, buy a monitor that's in your budget, that gets decent reviews, and don't worry about it again. All of the monitors have their pros and cons. Just pick one, calibrate it and enjoy it.

Feb 04, 2012 at 03:37 PM

Sharona
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Important question re: Apple vs other displays

I've done nothing BUT research. I have purchased a monitor, ASUS ProArt 24-inch based on lots of reviews. So are you saying that I should use it as it is out of the box until I calibrate it? That is where I'm confused, because straight out of the box it is not impressive. I would not expect Standard Mode to be as foggy/flat as it is. Am I wrong? If so I would be glad to know, so that I can figure out if I want to keep this or not. It was doing this flashing thing as well, going from a bright green screen to my normal screen. That's not good.

I suppose it would be most helpful if Mac users would weigh in on using both a Mac and another non-Apple monitor - how they compare, etc.

Thanks!

Feb 04, 2012 at 03:51 PM

Monkey Falls
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Important question re: Apple vs other displays

Obviously, the flashing green then normal is not right. That sounds like a connection problem. One thing that you may want to consider is buying a monitor that has a Displayport connection so you can eliminate the adapter. I've seen that type of behavior before when a monitor cable was worn out and replacing the cable solved the problem.

Aside from the problem with the monitor, what do mean by foggy/flat? Do you mean that the monitor has a matte finish and the screen is not shiny? There are monitors that have high gloss screens and others that have a matte finish. The iMacs have glossy screens. They look great, but can be problematic for photo editing because reflections are distracting. Most photographers prefer matte screens for that reason.

If that is not the issue, then do you simply need to adjust the brightness and contrast? It's difficult to make a recommendation based on your description. If there is a store nearby with your monitor on display, go look at it and see if it looks the same.

Hope that helps.

--Matthew

Feb 04, 2012 at 04:04 PM

Sharona
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Important question re: Apple vs other displays

Thanks Matthew - I appreciate the help here. No, it's not the matte screen- my Macbook Pro has that and that is one thing I wanted was a matte screen. I wish I could be more articulate here! I sound like a ninny. I think the issue is that I am so used to the Mac monitors - and my Macbook pro is small, so of course it will look somewhat better - but this new monitor lacks contrast and seems "foggy" unless I change it to user mode as opposed to the standard mode that it came with. Also had to turn the brightness way down but I knew these tended to be bright. It's possible my expectations for ANY monitor were too high. Given that the monitor is brand new as are the cables and adapter do you really think this is the issue? The more I think about it the more I think calibration will solve a lot, although I am not confident I will do this correctly.... and speaking of, I have read that some calibration software doesn't play well with Mac's Lion. Any help here would be appreciated, as well.

Feb 04, 2012 at 04:17 PM

howardm4
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Important question re: Apple vs other displays

I have an iMac and an NEC PA241W along w/ a ColorMunki puck and the NEC 'Spectraview' software. Works absolutely fine.

I think you got a bad Asus monitor in the first place. Second, regardless of what monitor you get, budget for a calibration device. It's not has hard as your making it out to be.

Feb 04, 2012 at 09:53 PM

skibum5
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Important question re: Apple vs other displays

Sharona wrote:
TEST file from new monitor - I'd be curious to know how this looks on your monitor -those who are still with me... on my lap top it looks darkish and somewhat oversaturated. On my large monitor it looks - meh.. but OK. THis is on an uncalibrated monitor - maybe my expectations were too high. (This was just a quick tweak in PS and NIK, BTW)

I haven't checked on my 241PA which would be the true test, but on my calibrated hdtv it doesn't look remotely over-saturated and the monkey doesn't look darkish at all.

Feb 04, 2012 at 11:54 PM

Gavin Gilmour
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Important question re: Apple vs other displays

Monkey looks great on my HP Envey

Feb 05, 2012 at 01:04 AM

morganb4
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Important question re: Apple vs other displays

I think any discussion as to how good/flat your monitor is should wait until you have a monitor that is both a)calibrated and b) not clearly broken.

Your monkey looks nice.

I think you are going about this the wrong way. Think about this approach:

1) Choose a puk, from what I hear, the eye1 Display Pro is good at handling LED and wide gamut.
2) Get the new monitor leave it at default, stay away from the controls and run it for 1/2 but 1 hour to be safe.
3) Calibrate it.

i.e. get the calibration established on your screen before you actually think about using/assessing it.

Then tell us what you think. By the way, if you see a setting that says 'PC' or 'Mac' leave it on PC. Macs have used PC gamma for ages now. If you set it to mac its one way to make it look flat.

Perhaps a good analogy would be a bit like just walking into a bespoke tailors shop, choosing a reasonably nice outfit and complaining that it doesn't fit before the seamstress has even measured you up.

Feb 05, 2012 at 04:52 AM

BobCollette
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Important question re: Apple vs other displays

Sharon, I agree with the others, your monkey image looks good to me on my calibrated Dell 2209WA monitor. Also, as others have said, if you're serious about photography & editing, you should plan on purchasing a hardware monitor calibrator. However, since you currently don't have a calibrator, you might want to checkout the site linked below. It has a series of monitor test images that can help you ensure that your monitor is working & setup properly. While it sounds like you currently have a defective monitor, you might want to check out the site when you get it replaced.

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

Feb 05, 2012 at 10:29 AM

Sharona
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Important question re: Apple vs other displays

Bob - Fantastic! Thank you so much for the link. I'm going to tinker with it now.

To all else - thanks for putting up with my somewhat neurotic behavior on this! I only sought input on the monkey photo as a starting point - to see how off it really might be in terms of colors and contrast. I had always planned to calibrate. Truth is, I am not technically oriented, and I did get a little freaked out. I'm going to give B&H a call about this before I send it back. The green flickering is gone for now, and honestly, I didn't allow the machine to warm up at all before I jumped in with the photos and web browsing. So I may stick with this model regardless, get a calibrator and do what needs to be done. I have read so much on the web about MacBooks not playing nice with various calibration software, and honestly I have sunk more cash into this than I had planned, so yeah, I was frustrated and wanted to make sure I got all the right stuff at the outset. I'd much rather be taking photos than calibrating monitors......

I do think a minimum amount of information in the form of a user guide should come standard with these monitors.

Feb 05, 2012 at 12:11 PM

carnac
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Important question re: Apple vs other displays

One more for the monkey looks good on my monitor - Spyder 3/ColorEyes Pro/Apple Cinema Display HD 23 (older LCD model). Not dark or over saturated.

Jim

Feb 05, 2012 at 01:59 PM

Sharona
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Important question re: Apple vs other displays

Thanks Carnac!

Bob - I ran through those tests and this monitor does quite well - the only issue I came up with was on that Gamma test. The bars did not mesh with where they were supposed to, even though the Mac is set where they say it should be... (2.2) I could be doing something wrong, or it could be my vision at this point.

Another question - Is HDMI an OK way to hook this up or should I be using a different method/port?

Cheers,
Sharon

Feb 05, 2012 at 02:43 PM

BobCollette
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Important question re: Apple vs other displays

Sharon, it's not uncommon for the gamma to be off somewhat on an uncalibrated monitor. If the gamma test shows that the gamma is somewhere between 2.0 - 2.4, there's nothing to worry about. Calibration will certainly bring it in.

There's nothing wrong with using HDMI as the interface with the monitor. HDMI is a digital interface (includes both video & audio), so you're running in a "digital" environment. In fact, DVI-D (DVI-Digital) is a subset of HDMI (it's HDMI with only the video component, no audio, although the connectors are different). My current computer has an HDMI connector on it for the Intel HD Graphics (Z68 chipset with second gen i5 CPU). To try the built-in graphics, I bought a $4 HDMI to DVI adapter that allows me to plug the DVI cable from my Dell monitor into the motherboard graphics output (HDMI). It worked fine, although I currently have my monitor connected to my nVidia graphics card (I already had it so I figured I might as well use it).

Feb 05, 2012 at 03:16 PM

morganb4
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Important question re: Apple vs other displays

Sharona wrote:
I have read so much on the web about MacBooks not playing nice with various calibration software

Where? I have an MBP and have never had any problem with any calibration system. Ever. I have never read about any issues either. Perhaps if you can post some links, we can help you navigate through it and work out whats what with you.

Sharona wrote:
I do think a minimum amount of information in the form of a user guide should come standard with these monitors.

People write books on this subject. I think when you start buying professional grade or at lest prosumer grade gear, there is an assumption that you have some colour management experience. Windows and MacOS don't really come with user guides, there is just an expectation that you know about computers already and then you can go as deep as you need to. Big extensive manuals blow out prices.

The basic knowledge that you need is quite simple. I know probably <5% of what people like cgardner, alan321 and others know but I know enough to get by. When I have a problem, I come here and ask questions and so my knowledge grows.

Right now, you need 2 things:
1 Monitor (got)
2 A hardware calibration system (going to get)

Go out and take pictures, worry about the next bit when you get the puk. Go...Relax....Dont come back until then

Feb 05, 2012 at 05:20 PM

Sharona
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Important question re: Apple vs other displays

Hi Morgan! It's the NEC Spectraview calibration that had issues with Macs, to be precise. If you look at my older posts on this board, you'll see a lot of this discussion. THanks!

Feb 05, 2012 at 08:01 PM

howardm4
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Important question re: Apple vs other displays

no, Spectraview doesn't have any issues. I've done it many times w/ my iMac, NEC, SV, ColorMunki

Feb 05, 2012 at 09:15 PM

skibum5
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Important question re: Apple vs other displays

Sharona wrote:
Thanks Carnac!

Bob - I ran through those tests and this monitor does quite well - the only issue I came up with was on that Gamma test. The bars did not mesh with where they were supposed to, even though the Mac is set where they say it should be... (2.2) I could be doing something wrong, or it could be my vision at this point.

Another question - Is HDMI an OK way to hook this up or should I be using a different method/port?

Cheers,
Sharon

most monitors don't have any automatic setting that sets the gamma well, you'll need to calibrate it

Feb 05, 2012 at 10:39 PM

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