acceptable EVF just around the corner?

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Archive 2012 · acceptable EVF just around the corner?

AJSJones
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p.1 #1 · acceptable EVF just around the corner?

5 MP 0.6" microOLED for your EVF anyone? Given optics that could place the apparent image at the right place (like on the focusing screen? like the LCD in the 7D), this would exceed human acuity - it would only need to be fast enough to be imperceptibly delayed and it would be a huge leap forward for the DSLR - "almost life-like" display with overlay all the ancillary info, live histogram, zoom level selectable etc and a brightness/visibility that didn't require fast lenses or much light at all (think exposure simulation). A mirror would still be needed unless contrast (as opposed to phase) AF gets much faster, but the clunky prism not so much

Not too much longer to wait - maybe.

Preparing to run away from Luddite flames

In 2007
thedutt wrote
I would love to see this post 5 years from now.... I suspect that they will both exist for a long time together, but eventually the optical VF would be replaced once the display technology get significally better. Many motivations for it including not needing a shutter mirror, a prism . Im not a pro, but as a hobbyists, I can see it disappearing from entry level cameras in 5-10 years.

Jan 31, 2012 at 12:26 AM

Photon
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p.1 #2 · acceptable EVF just around the corner?

I think that a "lifelike" EVF is indeed around the corner. I don't know how soon contrast AF can equal phase detection, but meanwhile maybe the main mirror could be eliminated and a group of small semi-silvered AF mirrors used for phase?

Jan 31, 2012 at 12:59 AM

thedigitalbean
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p.1 #3 · acceptable EVF just around the corner?

Looks good resolution wise, I'm curious what the dynamic range will be like. I have what I consider to be the best EVF on the market right now (the one in the NEX-7 / NEX-5N attachment) and I am very pleased with its performance. Still has issues with dynamic range though the resolution is quite good. I prefer it in most cases to the teeny OVFs in the entry level cameras (like the Rebels) but it still pales to the OVFs in the 7D or the FF cameras.

Still I'm convinced that the mirror will eventually go the way of the dodo. Nikon has demostrated that it is possible to embed a phase detect array in with the sensor in their V1/J1 cameras and I know other manufacturers have also been experimenting with it. None of this stuff is imminent, especially when compared to the latest generation of professional phase detect AF systems but it is coming.

Jan 31, 2012 at 01:18 AM

Mike K
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p.1 #4 · acceptable EVF just around the corner?

Andy, I'm certainly for a 5mp OLED, as you know I am a magnified Live View enthusiast! I am presuming the improved EVF would come hand in hand in capability (and electronic feed) as with an improved, back of camera 5mp OLED. Over half of my lenses are manual focus, and when I am happy with the LV crispness I am never disappointed in my resulting image focus. I consider a good 10X LV to be more accurate and more precise than phase detect AF and I use 10X LV to calibrate my lens micro adjust for PDAF. I often use LV 10X to check if my AF has selected the desired portion of the subject.

Other than the lack of speedy phase detect AF off the sensor in LV, I see no technical limitation in the rapid adaptation of the improved micro OLED. A second, dedicated processor could provide a lag free EVF feed. The last shutter lag and vibration to eliminate would be that pesky mirror. The electronics development will certainly bend to our will with time and ingenuity, the optics may take quite a bit longer.
Mike K

Jan 31, 2012 at 01:23 AM

RobDickinson
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p.1 #5 · acceptable EVF just around the corner?

So long as we have :
Fast update, 10-20ms or faster
High enough resolution and colour/contrast etc
fast v1 like phase on sensor
almost no power usage

It will be ok. Until then I will stick with optical...

Jan 31, 2012 at 01:46 AM

AJSJones
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p.1 #6 · acceptable EVF just around the corner?

My guess is that the performance is already going to be close to meeting those criteria, but the $$$ may be high for a while!

Edit: Well perhaps not so fast! Their MP is like the digital SLR only not interpolated up to RGB infor for each one

It's megadots, each dot has one color.
"MicroOLED announced their next-generation 0.61" OLED microdisplay which features 5.4 million pixels (color SXGA 1,280x960 or monochrome 2,560x2,048). The sub-pixel pitch size is 4.7x4.7 micrometres - which makes this the highest pixel density OLED microdisplay on the market according to MicroOLED. Other features include 100,000:1 contrast ration and high uniformity (96%). Power consumption can be as low as 0.2W (depends on how it is driven)."

Edited on Jan 31, 2012 at 06:15 AM · View previous versions

Jan 31, 2012 at 02:52 AM

robstein
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p.1 #7 · acceptable EVF just around the corner?

I would actually love to get something like that and better I would like it linked via blue-tooth/wi-fi so that you could have it show on your phone/device. I guess I just don't see it as an SLR killer (most people don't know what the initials mean anyway)....

Jan 31, 2012 at 04:55 AM

KiboOst
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p.1 #8 · acceptable EVF just around the corner?

I'm against EVF for evf, but has technology evolve, such one is getting close to being able to replace OVF ...
What I would like to replace OVF with EVF :
- More than eye acuity resolution
- Near realtime response (6ms ?). Absolutely no perceiable lag !
- Exposure compensation
- Sharpness detection (a way to show where in the image is maximum sharpness)
- Under/Over exposure shown + Live histogram
- Custom framing (square etc). Maybe uploading a custom framing pattern would be nice

Then I wouls have an eye at it ;-)

Jan 31, 2012 at 10:32 AM

scalesusa
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p.1 #9 · acceptable EVF just around the corner?

One of the issues with using EVF or LCD displays is that a photographer is misled by the brightness of the screen. There is no calibration or even feel for the light level coming thru the lens. A live histogram would help, but its still a issue to be solved.

Jan 31, 2012 at 04:00 PM

AJSJones
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p.1 #10 · acceptable EVF just around the corner?

KiboOst wrote:
I'm against EVF for evf, but has technology evolve, such one is getting close to being able to replace OVF ...
What I would like to replace OVF with EVF :
- More than eye acuity resolution
- Near realtime response (6ms ?). Absolutely no perceiable lag !
- Exposure compensation
- Sharpness detection (a way to show where in the image is maximum sharpness)
- Under/Over exposure shown + Live histogram
- Custom framing (square etc). Maybe uploading a custom framing pattern would be nice

Then I wouls have an eye at it ;-)
The last four items in your list are already available in Live View - using Magic Lantern firmware. You could add scrollable zoom, pano alignment and any other info overlay you wanted , we mainly need the response lag to be short to address most of the #1 concerns .

Jan 31, 2012 at 04:10 PM

gdanmitchell
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p.1 #11 · acceptable EVF just around the corner?

I don't know how close such a critter is, but I do know that last year someone showed me a camera with the branding info blacked out that surprised me with the quality of its electronic viewfinder. Made me rethink some of my previous assumptions about the potential of these things.

Dan

AJSJones wrote:
5 MP 0.6" microOLED for your EVF anyone? Given optics that could place the apparent image at the right place (like on the focusing screen? like the LCD in the 7D), this would exceed human acuity - it would only need to be fast enough to be imperceptibly delayed and it would be a huge leap forward for the DSLR - "almost life-like" display with overlay all the ancillary info, live histogram, zoom level selectable etc and a brightness/visibility that didn't require fast lenses or much light at all (think exposure simulation). A mirror would still be needed unless contrast (as opposed to phase) AF gets much faster, but the clunky prism not so much

Not too much longer to wait - maybe.

Preparing to run away from Luddite flames

Jan 31, 2012 at 04:20 PM

AJSJones
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p.1 #12 · acceptable EVF just around the corner?

gdanmitchell wrote:
I don't know how close such a critter is, but I do know that last year someone showed me a camera with the branding info blacked out that surprised me with the quality of its electronic viewfinder. Made me rethink some of my previous assumptions about the potential of these things.

Dan

It wasn't a picture of a helmeted guineafowl in the EVF was it?

Seriously though, your comment is encouraging that the camera makers are responding to our desire for high quality EVFs - the combination of an acceptable one with all the other possibilities that it allows would be most welcome.

Jan 31, 2012 at 04:42 PM

Mike K
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p.1 #13 · acceptable EVF just around the corner?

Here is a summary of the advantages of OLED displays.
It sounds as if they will easily supplant LCD displays in a few years and optical viewfinders as well. Technology marches forward.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/7122225983/an-introduction-to-oled

Feb 06, 2012 at 11:45 PM

AJSJones
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p.1 #14 · acceptable EVF just around the corner?

Mike, Thanks for that timely link

Perhaps the feature that makes OLED most attractive for use in photography is its speed. With refresh rates about 1,000 times quicker than an LCD, it can be used to represent the increasingly fast live view output from the latest cameras with ever improving realism. This is particularly important where the technology is being used for electronic viewfinders, and a rapidly updating, smooth representation of movement can help re-create the optical viewfinder experience.

Feb 07, 2012 at 03:16 AM

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