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Archive 2012 · 7D vs. MKIV wildlife comparison
  
 
Schlotkins
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 7D vs. MKIV wildlife comparison


Hello all:

I did a search on this but I didn't see anything super relevant. I currently wildlife shoot with a 7D + 500 f4. I am usually focal length limited and often shoot with the 1.4x on the lens. When the new 600 II was announced, I thought it was a great idea to upgrade to the MKIV and the 600 II. I would have (almost) the same reach for (almost) the same weight. Plus my wallet would be a lot lighter so that would lessen the load as well. The camera would be a upgrade from the 7D so life would be good.

After thinking about this a bit more, I'm not so sure so I was hoping those that have shot with both cameras could chime in. The primary reasons I thought the change would be good is due to better AF and IQ. The 7D is at least a stop noisier than the IV and the IV has, generally, a better AF system. I used to shoot with a 1D MKII. As a AF comparison, it was easier for me to get hand held sharp pictures, but I think that's a matter of the pixel density rather than the AF. When shooting on a tripod, the AF system seems to be pretty darn good. The only time the 7D AF has really let me down is when, for example, I have something like a Northern Harrier flying against a brown grassy field. The 7D would not lock on the bird, although that could have been me as well or the camera settings.

Ok so back to my issue. Let's say I have the 600 II. On a 7D, that would give me 600*1.6 = 960mm eq. length with 18 mpx. On the IV, I'd have 600*1.3 = 780 eq. length with 16 mpx. For me to have the same reach on the IV, I would need (960/780)*(18/16)^.5 = 1.3x more reach. Thus, I would essentially need to attach a 1.4x to get the same reach with the IV. That means:

- I'm shooting at 5.6 rather than 4
- Ergo, I am shooting at 1 stop higher ISO to get the same shutter speed
- I get an IQ hit due to the extender on the lens
- I get 50% reduced AF performance

So, the bottom line is I'm not sure that I'd get much of an upgrade in AF or IQ. Of course, the IV does have better weather sealing, and gives 10 fps rather than 8.

Anyway, I'm curious on anyone's experience.

Thanks,
Chris



Jan 20, 2012 at 06:42 PM
Jim Victory
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 7D vs. MKIV wildlife comparison


I would give up the reach of a 7D for the MKIV. The MKIV is better in all areas. Just find a way to get closer to your subject and dump the 7D.

I would rather attach a 1.4x or 2x TC to my lens with the MKIV than use the 7D. I don't think the 7D compares to my MKIII either and my MKIV is better than the MKIII.

Jim



Edited on Jan 20, 2012 at 07:40 PM · View previous versions



Jan 20, 2012 at 06:51 PM
Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 7D vs. MKIV wildlife comparison



I would also prefer the 1D4



Jan 20, 2012 at 06:58 PM
artsupreme
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 7D vs. MKIV wildlife comparison


Sounds like you need the 800 and MkIV


Jan 20, 2012 at 07:03 PM
dbehrens
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 7D vs. MKIV wildlife comparison


When the 50D came out I bought one and considered selling my 1D Mk2 because so many parameters were similar to the 1DMk2. Then I had a tripod accident, which shattered the 50D. Had it been my 1D Mk2 on the tripod most likely nothing would happen other than a possible ding on the body. That convinced me once and for all to stick with 1D bodies for my wildlife photography.

BTW I have the 1D4 and its great for wildlife photography. However, if I were shopping now I would wait for the 1DX.

Dave



Jan 20, 2012 at 07:14 PM
dhphoto
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 7D vs. MKIV wildlife comparison


dbehrens wrote:
When the 50D came out I bought one and considered selling my 1D Mk2 because so many parameters were similar to the 1DMk2. Then I had a tripod accident, which shattered the 50D. Had it been my 1D Mk2 on the tripod most likely nothing would happen other than a possible ding on the body. That convinced me once and for all to stick with 1D bodies for my wildlife photography.


So you measured the performance of the camera by how well it managed to survive a fall off a tripod. Novel approach.



Jan 20, 2012 at 07:16 PM
Paul Tessier
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 7D vs. MKIV wildlife comparison


I agree with the above. The 7d is not a bad camera but the mark IV is better all around. I made the switch a few months back and am very glad I did. Now if we could just get those 600's shipping.


Jan 20, 2012 at 07:19 PM
Jo Dilbeck
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 7D vs. MKIV wildlife comparison


Jim Victory wrote:
I would give up the reach of a 7D for the MKIV. The MKIV is better in all areas. Just find a way to get closer to your subject and dump the 7D.

I would rather attach a 1.4x or 2x TC to my lens with the MKIV rather than use the 7D. I don't think the 7D compares to my MKIII either and my MKIV is better than the MKIII.

Jim



I'm with Jim on this one in most respects. I have both the 7D and 1D4, and IN GENERAL, I much prefer the 1D4 for everything. However, IF you can keep the ISO below 800 on the 7D, AND you need the reach, the 7D will work. I pretty much keep my 7D on my 300 F2.8 w/2x Extender ON A TRIPOD, for everything else bird related, I use the 1D4, mostly with 100-400 zoom.

For AF, I find the 1D4 MUCH more accurate and reliable. Maybe it's me, maybe not, but I just don't get the keeper rate for BIF with the 7D.

Jo



Jan 20, 2012 at 07:19 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 7D vs. MKIV wildlife comparison


I don't own a idiv but I have a 7d/500f4/5dii and have wondered about the same. One thing in addition to the above that you should take note of is - if you look at resolution capabilties of lens on 7d vs idii, for example you will find that idiii make 55 lines whereas 7d makes 50 line resolution with the same lens. Check on Dxomark. So what gives.

Well the answer is that 7d does not actually achieve 23% more effective reach (1.6/1.3) over idiv, it only achieves about 1/2 that because you are only using 63% of the available lens with 7d (its designed for 1.x and you are only using 63% of it to get the reach) as compared to 77% of the available lens with 1div. So your resolution becomes limited by the glass resolution as opposed to the sensor resolution.

So in addition to what others have said on focus capability, you might only get effective 10% (1/2 of 23% rounded down because idiv is newer) more reach on 7d over 1div. Thus a 500 on 7d is equivalent to a 550 on idiv, after cropping. [Not to mention that idiv is measured to be about 1/2 a stop better in ISO than 7d by Dxomark.]

However you do get a lighter smaller camera which also counts for something. And you do get interchangeable batteries with 5dii and you do get to save $3000. So I still chose 7d. But for me the money is not as important as size, weight, and interchangable batteries. If I was more of bif guy and less of a grizzly, moose, polar guy, I might come to a different conclusion. Likely not though because I like landscape equally and I am not shooting landscape with idiv (too long, not as strong as 5dii). [Last week I exited the airplane because United connected on the next leg with a small jet that would not fit my 500f4, I don't want another challenge of a bigger heavier body.It cost me $400}

However, just wait for the 1dx. I suspect you would conclude way better ISO (30% more pixel space is likely to yield 2 stops based on Nikon experience), way better focus, and only 10% less effective reach. Than you will have to buy the 800/5.6 or the 600F4II with the 1dx for the ultimate bif'ing, and this whole pursuit will be a $15,000 touch.

Life is a compromise.



Jan 20, 2012 at 07:41 PM
PeterP1D
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 7D vs. MKIV wildlife comparison


another vote for the 1DIV. I have both 7D and 1DIV. I can't tell you how many times I have put the 7D on my 500 thinking I would get a little extra reach and taken it off after a few shots.


Jan 20, 2012 at 08:04 PM
 

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jcolwell
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 7D vs. MKIV wildlife comparison


Jim Victory wrote:
I would give up the reach of a 7D for the MKIV.


That's exactly what I did last summer. I sold a 7D and 1DIII to help pay for a new 1DIV.

Jim Victory wrote:
...The MKIV is better in all areas. Just find a way to get closer to your subject and dump the 7D.

I would rather attach a 1.4x or 2x TC to my lens with the MKIV than use the 7D. I don't think the 7D compares to my MKIII either and my MKIV is better than the MKIII.

Jim


I agree.



Jan 20, 2012 at 08:09 PM
kbarrera
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 7D vs. MKIV wildlife comparison


Had a 7d which I used almost exclusively with a 500 f/4. I sold my 500 thinking I would get a 600 MK II. Well we all know how that turned out. I bought a new copy of the 500 and sold the 7 d to fund a 1D 4' but Bought a 1d mkiin just to have a body in the meantime. Well guess what! The 1d mkIIn beats the crap out of the 7d. I do a lot of handholding while shooting Bald Eagles. My keeper rate has increased dramatically. the AF is a lot faster, and you can't beat 8.2 frames a second.
Bottom line is, I'm sticking with the 500 and when I have the money will definitely get the 1d 4. Or maybe even the 1dx.

Hope that helps.

Al



Jan 20, 2012 at 08:16 PM
Schlotkins
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 7D vs. MKIV wildlife comparison


Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply. So, it sounds like the overwhelming response is: get the IV, which was my first thought...

I actually almost got the 800 over the 500... in fact, I was just about to buy an 800 for $10,800 but the last one sold and I got the 500 instead. I think I'd prefer the 600 on the IV... the 800 would be too long in a few cases and my hope is 600 II + TCs will be pretty darn good.

Thanks again to everyone - I really appreciate it.
Chris

EDIT: Since I am going to get a IV based on this feedback, I should go ahead a pollute my own thread by asking if anyone could post their camera settings for birding. Thanks!



Jan 20, 2012 at 08:23 PM
speedmaster20d
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 7D vs. MKIV wildlife comparison


If you are serious about avian photography especially flight shots MK4 is your camera.

I did an analysis of 7D AF for flight when it first came out in 2009. At that time MKIV did not exist yet but even the 1DMK3 performed measurably better, you can read my findings here


link

look under EOS 7D AF analysis

Hope this helps.



Jan 20, 2012 at 09:06 PM
Karver
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 7D vs. MKIV wildlife comparison


I've been using both 7D and MkIV for some time with 500mm F4IS with and without 1.4x extender II and can say that pixel quality of MkIV compensates for lesser pixel density.
I sold 7D because even cropping MkIV images I could get better quality image.
Higher pixel density just does not work always.



Jan 20, 2012 at 09:46 PM
BrianO
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 7D vs. MKIV wildlife comparison


dbehrens wrote:
...I had a tripod accident, which shattered the 50D. Had it been my 1D Mk2 on the tripod most likely nothing would happen other than a possible ding on the body. That convinced me once and for all to stick with 1D bodies for my wildlife photography.

dhphoto wrote:
So you measured the performance of the camera by how well it managed to survive a fall off a tripod. Novel approach.


Not so novel.

A Toyota Camry is a fine car, but for off-road use a Toyota Land Cruiser would be a better choice.



Jan 20, 2012 at 09:59 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 7D vs. MKIV wildlife comparison


dhphoto wrote:
So you measured the performance of the camera by how well it managed to survive a fall off a tripod. Novel approach.


Not novel for me. If I drop one of my 1D-series cameras, I'll just pick it up and keep on shooting, assmuing the lens is OK.



Jan 20, 2012 at 10:43 PM
M Lucca
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 7D vs. MKIV wildlife comparison


I'm actually impressed that a camera 1/3rd the cost of canon's sports flagship is being compared at all.

I don't ever remember threads upon threads comparing a 40d/50d against a 1dIII in the past. Impressive this 7D is. I'm intrigued if anything...




Jan 20, 2012 at 10:55 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 7D vs. MKIV wildlife comparison


M Lucca wrote:
I'm actually impressed that a camera 1/3rd the cost of canon's sports flagship is being compared at all.

I don't ever remember threads upon threads comparing a 40d/50d against a 1dIII in the past. Impressive this 7D is. I'm intrigued if anything...


How about this...

I wish I had kept my 40D, rather than buying a 7D.

Note that I've owned 20D, 30D, 40D, 5D, 7D, 1DII, 1DIII, 1DsIII, and 1DIV. I currently own a 1DsIII, 1DIV, and 5D (two of them), plus a totally useless Fujifilm X100 rangefinder and an Oly XZ-1, whatever that is. Fujifilm X-Pro 1 is on order.

Go Pats!



Jan 20, 2012 at 11:02 PM
DmitriM
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · 7D vs. MKIV wildlife comparison


jcolwell wrote:
How about this...

I wish I had kept my 40D, rather than buying a 7D.


That's just wrong...

7D is better than 40D is ALL aspects. There's no even a comparison. It would be a sin to compare those 2...
If you want to compare 7D, compare it to 5DII



Jan 20, 2012 at 11:57 PM
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