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Archive 2011 · 7D PP Settings
  
 
canadajim
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p.2 #1 · 7D PP Settings


Great thread! I thought I would share a shot taken last year and processed with Elements 10 - default settings. The second is processed using settings suggested. Elements doesn't offer the same options under NR, so I only changed Luminance and Colour.

After I convert from RAW I resize for posting and use Unsharp mask twice with these settings:

Amount: 125
Radius .2
Threshold 0

I don't know if these are the best pictures for noise but I thought I would try something new.

Feedback welcomed!

Thanks

Jim




  Canon EOS 7D    EF500mm f/4L IS USM lens    500mm    f/8.0    1/800s    400 ISO    -0.3 EV  






  Canon EOS 7D    EF500mm f/4L IS USM lens    500mm    f/8.0    1/800s    400 ISO    -0.3 EV  




Dec 14, 2011 at 05:05 AM
Jeff Nolten
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p.2 #2 · 7D PP Settings


Nice shot Jim. Where did you capture the pica? The only places I've seen them I wouldn't want to lug a 500 mm lens to.

I can't say I see any real difference between images. Perhaps the fur in the second one looks a little more distinct but I could be hallucinating. The eye glint in the second image is more concentrated, showing more sharpening.

Damn, everyones 500 images look so good. This could cost me a lot of money and I only wanted to learn how to reduce noise.



Dec 14, 2011 at 06:39 AM
canadajim
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p.2 #3 · 7D PP Settings


Here's another sample. I'm having difficulty telling the two apart - although my eyes are in bad shape! These were taken at ISO 100.

First is the settings I normally use and the second the suggested settings.

Jim




  Canon EOS 7D    EF500mm f/4L IS USM lens    500mm    f/6.3    1/1000s    100 ISO    0.0 EV  






  Canon EOS 7D    EF500mm f/4L IS USM lens    500mm    f/6.3    1/1000s    100 ISO    0.0 EV  




Dec 14, 2011 at 12:53 PM
canadajim
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p.2 #4 · 7D PP Settings


Jeff Nolten wrote:
Nice shot Jim. Where did you capture the pica? The only places I've seen them I wouldn't want to lug a 500 mm lens to.

I can't say I see any real difference between images. Perhaps the fur in the second one looks a little more distinct but I could be hallucinating. The eye glint in the second image is more concentrated, showing more sharpening.

Damn, everyones 500 images look so good. This could cost me a lot of money and I only wanted to learn how to reduce noise.


Hi Jeff

There are quite few places close to Calgary to find pikas - Kananaskis Country and Banff are my favourite places.

Jim



Dec 14, 2011 at 12:59 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.2 #5 · 7D PP Settings


Thanks Jim, I've been meaning to schedule a truck trip up there.

Regarding your images, I don't see a difference in noise, but they are ISO 100 shots. While the 7D does have some ISO 100 noise, its very easy to clean and the default settings in your first image may have taken care of that. The settings Hrow gave at the beginning were for ISOs in the 400 to 800 range (as a start). Whayne (Pixelperfect) above gave some ISO 100 settings in his post.

Here is another post from Garyvot from out of my notes that talks about 7D low ISO noise processing:

Garyvot:
Re. the various comments about low ISO noise: low-ISO noise is simply a fact of life with modern, high-density sensors such as that in the 7D. I don't like it, but I find I can deal with it using a proper NR workflow. A few 7D IQ tips that work for me:

1. For best sharpness at ISO 100: process in DPP and enable both the CA and 'color blur' lens corrections (the CA is the most important for a sharpness boost). Make sure to set both NR sliders to zero or 'off'. Then process to TIFF, and (optionally) clean up any
...Show more



Dec 14, 2011 at 05:09 PM
canadajim
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p.2 #6 · 7D PP Settings


Thanks Jeff - I'll try some of the settings on the 100 ISO shots.

Just wondering - do you think those shots show a lot of noise?

Thanks

Jim



Dec 14, 2011 at 07:16 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.2 #7 · 7D PP Settings


Hrow wrote:
Hmmm, with a Luminance setting of 3-5 I can't even see any impact. I'll have to play around a bit tomorrow to see if I am doing something wrong or very different. I have no expertise in this area so I have no doubt that my settings can be improved upon and its great to see how others are doing it.


I find 5 luminance makes a small difference but it's subtle, but at ISO 200 you don't really need NR unless the shot is badly exposed, so I just use as little as possible.

I downloaded a sample ISO 3200 RAW from 7D and Sony NEX 7 last night from dpreview to play around with and found 30 luminance NR was the limit for acceptable tradeoff between detail and noise. 35 really started to lose detail in fine areas. If LR had a NR brush, then I could be more aggressive in areas of low detail. I prefer to use PS and say noiseware or noiseninja to address noise, then I can use masks and layers and target noise selectively.



Dec 14, 2011 at 09:53 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.2 #8 · 7D PP Settings


canadajim wrote:
Just wondering - do you think those shots show a lot of noise?
Jim


I can't see any noise but other's eyes are better than mine. If those are full sized shots reduced for forum display, I doubt you'd be able to see much noise. Also the first pair has a pretty busy background, which will hide noise, while the second, which does have out of focus background where noise might be visible, was shot at ISO 100 which will have the least amount of noise.

The important question is do you see objectionable noise when you look at your images at normal viewing size either as the the full image displayed on screen or in print. You can probably always find some noise in OOF areas if you look at the images at 100%. I can find noise in my 5D images at ISO 100 if I look 100%, especially if I've adjusted levels or highlight/shadows.

So having said "don't judge at 100%", here are two 100% crops of my ISO 800 pigeon image showing the before and after. The before has zero luminance and chroma, even though the default chroma is 25, and it does have Hrow's suggested sharpening settings, which emphasises noise. The second is the processed image with some levels adjustment, image size reduction to 12 MP, and final light sharpening. There is still some visible noise and it looks slightly processed, but I can't see it when I view the full image on my 27" iMac.













Dec 14, 2011 at 11:22 PM
Shasoc
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p.2 #9 · 7D PP Settings


Very interesting thread! Unfortunately there is no recipe either for Sharpening or NR neither for 7D File nor any other camera files.
As far as sharpening is concerned, it is actually a 3-step process. The first one, done in ACR (called Capture sharpening) should be aimed to add a small amount of sharpening to compensate for the loss of detail due to the nature of the digital imaging. BTW ACR applies sharpening by default to your images, but you need to aim that sharpening for each image especially with the Amount, Radius and Detail sliders. The second step of sharpening (called Creative sharpening) is done in PS and it is done selectively like to the eyes, some birds feathers, etc. The final sharpening (called Output sharpening) is based on the final image size.

The guidelines for applying these setting are the following:
With high frequency or high detail images, (like birds feathers) you generally use:
High Amount, Low Radius, High Detail, Low Masking.
For low frequency images, (skin and skies) you use:
Low Amount, High Radius, Low Detail, High Masking.
Now, to see the effects of the adjustments you need to be at 100% (there is a message in the detail panel for that). And here is the trick: to see how each control is doing you need to hold the ALT key!
So holding the ALT key while moving the Amount slider will give you a B&W version of the image that will let you see the sharpening applied.
Holding the ALT key while using the Radius slider will give you a view similar to the High Pass Filter Overlay and you can easily see how it reaches out to the different areas.
Holding the ALT key using the Detail slider gets really handy as you can see all the detail brought up as you move the slider to the right.
Finally with Masking the ALT key will apply a mask to the image and you already know that Black conceals and White reveals. The more you move the slider to the right the more Black you'll see from the smoother to the less smooth areas.
As I said the sharpening should be subtle, don't get carried away as this is the first step of the sharpening process, just to recover some softness due to the digital processing. I see too many high values posted above. As I said you can leave the default setting that ACR applies automatically, but it is better to find the right balance of the four slider according to the characteristic of your image.
Finally a brief recall of the slider commands

Amount: controls the intensity of the lightening and darkening of the edges (this is how sharpening works)
Radius controls the width of the lightening/darkening effect along edges (halos)
Detail controls how deeply ACR “digs” into the image to pull out detail.
Masking removes sharpening from smooth areas (like the sky)
I hope this helps
Socrate



Dec 15, 2011 at 12:00 AM
abqnmusa
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p.2 #10 · 7D PP Settings


Those steps sound like a hassle.
canon just needs to reduce pixel density to a MP count not so noisy in 7D II



Dec 15, 2011 at 12:10 AM
 

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CampX
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p.2 #11 · 7D PP Settings


I find that for "higher" ISO shots from the 7D, I have found that ISO 2000 or 2500 are BETTER (as in less noise) than 1600 or 3200.
I've also found that the noise present at these higher ISO's is easily managed. Noise is very subjective to the viewer, however....... what I don't find all that noisy may be too noisy to others. I dunno. I don't use Noise Ninja or any other solutions, I just use ACR, and am cool with it.
I shoot a LOT in ISO 1600 and 2500 with my 7D, and am utterly happy with it. I kinda have to, seeing that the 400mm F5.6L can be a bit of a pig in lower light conditions.


ISO 2500, f5.6, 1/1000s, all sharpening and NR turned to 0 in ACR. No post sharpening, just cropped.






Same RAW file. Sharpening of 31, 0.5 radius, 5 detail, 25 masking. Noise reduction settings of 50 Luminance, 50 detail, 0 contrast. No post sharpening, cropped.






I would not hesitate to print it at 8X12. Remember film anyone? ISO 800 film with allits grainy glory? I can SO live with digital........



Dec 15, 2011 at 12:19 AM
mptnest
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p.2 #12 · 7D PP Settings


Socrate, i'm with you totally, however with the new processors and improved glass, i've taken some liberties to this approach to speed up PP time. Curious are you a Deke Mc fan?

Al



Dec 15, 2011 at 02:25 AM
Jeff Nolten
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p.2 #13 · 7D PP Settings


Thanks for the info Socrate, especially about the alt keys for the sharpening options. A whole level of complexity for me to experiment with. I think abqnmusa needs to embrace the joy of spending hours noise reducing a single image. I hope all this becomes more second nature to me soon. And that most of my subjects are well lit!

Edit: Since this thread is looks like its run its course, I'd just like to thank Hrow for starting it and everyone who contributed. You folks have helped me master (or at least journeyman) raw processing and given me a lot more confidence at using my 7D at higher ISOs. So thanks all. Cheers!



Dec 15, 2011 at 06:26 AM
Doug C
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p.2 #14 · 7D PP Settings


Do any of you folks use your 7D for aviation photography? I'm on the verge of moving from a 40D up to the 7D, but first I'd like to see a shot of a plane against the sky. Actually, what I'd really like to see is a comparison (straight from camera and then after PP) of a plane against blue sky.


Dec 16, 2011 at 02:43 AM
Jeff Nolten
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p.2 #15 · 7D PP Settings


Doug, if you don't get much response in this thread, you might repost as a new thread.


Dec 16, 2011 at 03:34 AM
Hrow
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p.2 #16 · 7D PP Settings


abqnmusa wrote:
Those steps sound like a hassle.
canon just needs to reduce pixel density to a MP count not so noisy in 7D II



The important thing to remember is that a good knowledge of NR can help you with any camera. The info provided by Shasoc is as valid for a 1DsMkIII as it is for a 7D as it is for any Nikon, Sony, or Olympus and I appreciate that Socrate as well as other have taken the time to share their techniques with us.



Dec 16, 2011 at 03:38 AM
Shasoc
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p.2 #17 · 7D PP Settings


Doug C wrote:
Do any of you folks use your 7D for aviation photography? I'm on the verge of moving from a 40D up to the 7D, but first I'd like to see a shot of a plane against the sky. Actually, what I'd really like to see is a comparison (straight from camera and then after PP) of a plane against blue sky.




Here you go, Doug Taken about a month ago with the 7D and 70-300 L.
Socrate






Original

  Canon EOS 7D    EF70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS USM lens    221mm    f/5.0    1/2000s    400 ISO    +0.7 EV  







Processed



Edited on Dec 16, 2011 at 06:02 AM · View previous versions



Dec 16, 2011 at 05:20 AM
Shasoc
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p.2 #18 · 7D PP Settings


mptnest wrote:
Socrate, i'm with you totally, however with the new processors and improved glass, i've taken some liberties to this approach to speed up PP time. Curious are you a Deke Mc fan?

Al



Hi Al No, I'm not really a Deke Mc fan. He talks a bit too much for my taste However, he is one of the best!
The 3-step sharpening process was created mainly by Bruce Fraser, Jeff Schewe and Martin Evening. If you think about it is a very "natural" workflow to use. It does make sense
Socrate



Dec 16, 2011 at 05:59 AM
LCPete
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p.2 #19 · 7D PP Settings


Brilliant thread
I've got a 550D but the sensors the same
Just starting to use acr so this thread is very helpful
One tip I found on the net is to set the luminance slider to 100 that allows you to gauge how much colour nr is needed
Found that I needed less than the default setting
Then adjust back the luminance



Dec 17, 2011 at 10:29 AM
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