7D PP Settings

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Archive 2011 · 7D PP Settings

Hrow
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p.1 #1 · 7D PP Settings

There is yet another thread running on whether the 7D is unreasonably noisy. Please be courteous and don't take this thread there.

One of the questions that often gets asked but rarely gets answered (and when answered gets lost in 5 pages of banter - as did Whayne's answer in the other thread) is what processes and settings people use to maximize the quality of their 7D files. Let's keep this discussion on the technical level and offer suggestions rather than snarky responses.

For example...

I shoot only in RAW and use LR3. My base settings for ISO 400 and 800 files are:

Sharpening

Amount 60
Radius .7
Detail 15
Masking 40

Noise Reduction

Luminance 35
Detail 40
Contrast 25
Color 25
Detail 50

I rarely shoot over 800 for anything and when I do, I adjust for the particular environment rather than use a global setting.

Would love to see what others are using and discussions on how using different settings might yield better results.

Dec 13, 2011 at 02:03 PM

RobertLynn
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p.1 #2 · 7D PP Settings

Great thread idea. When I get home, I'll post a few photos and the settings I used.
Perhaps we can keep this to just questions about processing and parameters used for it. No comparisons to other models, and images should have exif intact.

Dec 13, 2011 at 02:53 PM

eskimochaos
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p.1 #3 · 7D PP Settings

Lots, and lots, and lots of NR. JKJK.

When I briefly shot the 7D I found that NR was best in LR3 and sharpening was best done in CS5 with an edge-mask. The blue channel is particularly noisy in the 7D so I also did some minor NR to it in CS5 as well. I did not use presets on any ISO setting because of the variation in images that I shot.

Dec 13, 2011 at 03:41 PM

Jeff Nolten
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p.1 #4 · 7D PP Settings

Thank you Hrow, I kept asking these kinds of questions with little response. I'm switching to this thread.

Here is a bit on sharpening from PixelPerfect that I found useful:

Pixel Perfect wrote:
You can improve the image with capture sharpening [in the raw converter?], without adding to noise if you take some time to investigate the effects of the sliders. For the 7D I've found using

Amount: 40-55
radius: 0.6-0.8
detail: 10-15 up to ISO 800, 0-10 above that
mask: 25-35 upto ISO 800, 50-75 above that

works very well. The mask is the most important slider for making sure you don't enhance noise in textureless areas like sky. For other cameras like the 5D II I can use a bit less mask and a bit more detail.

The mask is what allows me to use a bit more for amount on sharpening. If you hold down the alt key and then click on the radius, detail and mask slider in turn you will see their effect in a luminosity mask view. Mask is used to constrain sharpening to edges. Zero mask means all the image is sharpened, 100% means only strong edges will be sharpened.

Capture One seems to handle the 7D better than LR3 and I'm using that more and more now.

Dec 13, 2011 at 04:32 PM

Jeff Nolten
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p.1 #5 · 7D PP Settings

I went back through my notes and found some postings by Garyvot from quite a while back. There is so much useful information here. I use this as the basis of my ACR workflow.

Garyvot:
My 7D processing tips, assuming you shoot RAW and process in ACR 6.x (LR is much the same):

1. If not already, try using Adobe's 'Adobe Standard' profile. I prefer Adobe's color rendering from the 7D than Canon's for most images

2. Set processing defaults to taste. (I find the 7D files a bit flat SOOC, so I add a bit of micro contrast with +10 Clarity, and strengthen the color response a bit with +15 Vibrance. I also enable lens profile corrections to correct for CA, but usually set the distortion and vignetting controls to zero as I prefer to make these corrections only in certain files. But, just set things up the way you like.)

3. Sharpening & NR: Right away I found that Adobe's defaults resulted in more (and coarser looking) noise at low and medium ISO speeds than DPP. Playing around with the sharpening a bit, I found that the radius setting appeared to be the major culprit. I settled on these defaults:

Sharpening:
o Amount: 35
o Radius: 0.6
o Detail: 25
o Masking: 25

Noise Reduction:
o Luminance: 15, 25, or 40 (depending on ISO)
o Luminance Detail: 60
o Luminance Contrast: 0
o Color: 25
o Color Detail: 50

The masking works well at low-medium ISOs, but can result in a more processed look at higher ISOs, so I will often disable it in favor of more organic looking grain. These settings are just starting points, play around to see what you like. I may also do additional sharpening in Photoshop for print output, but often this is all that is needed.

4. At higher ISOs, downsample. (I prefer using ACR for this, rather than Photoshop.). At high ISOs, the 7D files look great (after noise processing) as 11.2Mp finished files.

Don't be trapped into comparing camera-specific noise at 100%. Of course the 7D will have more noise than a 1D2, the sensor is not only smaller but much denser. But if you rendered an 8Mp finished file from a 7D RAW using some of these settings, you will be amazed at how clean and good it is.

As always, processing is a matter of taste. You may find these settings better, or worse, for you, so tweak away!

Dec 13, 2011 at 05:25 PM

Gochugogi
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p.1 #6 · 7D PP Settings

I usually shoot 7D RAW at ISO 160, 320, 640 and 1250 and process them to 16-bit TIFFs in Aperture 3. I find these ISO settings cleaner than 200, 400, 800 and 1600. Although people even whine about noise at ISO 100-200 I find 160 really doesn't need NR if exposed to the right and pulled down prior to conversion. Obviously you can't use this technique on every photo--some have too much dynamic range--but I do it when I can. I leave Aperture sharpening low or off as I prefer to sharpen selectively and optimize for file size (different for web galleries vs large prints) as my final "save as" step in PS.

Of course all of Canon's auto illumination and HL modes should be disabled if noise control is important.

I find the de-noise, radius and moire sliders in Aperture 3 work great up ISO 640. However if a high ISO image contains a lot of skies or lower mids I get better results using Topaz Denoise 5 in a separate PS layer. I like being able to apply differing amounts of NR to shadows, skies or color channels without touching the well exposed subject. Also, I prefer not to pull up shadows too much as, besides accentuating patterned noise, it just looks unnatural to compress shadows, mids and highs into a narrow range. Hate the quasi HDR look.

Topaz Denoise on sky (ISO 800). The sky was really noisy and needed heavy NR. Should have used ISO 640 but I didn't know any better at the time.

Dec 13, 2011 at 06:15 PM

Jeff Nolten
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p.1 #7 · 7D PP Settings

Excellent Peter, what lens were you using for that shot?

Dec 13, 2011 at 06:36 PM

Gochugogi
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p.1 #8 · 7D PP Settings

Thanks Jeff. I used a hand held EF-s 15-85 3.5-5.6 IS USM. Think I was on my bicycle with my foot braced on the seawall.

Dec 13, 2011 at 07:42 PM

snapsy
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p.1 #9 · 7D PP Settings

It really depends on the image. If the subject matter fills a large percentage of the frame then you can get by with little or no NR, for example a tight portrait. If the subject matter is much smaller then you have the classic battle between NR and detail. In those situations and depending on how important the image is I'll switch from LR to PS to get more selectivity on the NR, on a per-region basis (masks/layers) and on a per-color channel basis. I'm hoping LR adds NR settings to the local adjustment tools in a future version.

Dec 13, 2011 at 08:35 PM

Jeff Donald
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p.1 #10 · 7D PP Settings

I think this thread would benefit from seeing images processed with the settings that that are being stated. My sharpening settings change significantly if the image is a landscape vs. a portrait.

Dec 13, 2011 at 08:47 PM

Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #11 · 7D PP Settings

Hrow wrote:
There is yet another thread running on whether the 7D is unreasonably noisy. Please be courteous and don't take this thread there.

One of the questions that often gets asked but rarely gets answered (and when answered gets lost in 5 pages of banter - as did Whayne's answer in the other thread) is what processes and settings people use to maximize the quality of their 7D files. Let's keep this discussion on the technical level and offer suggestions rather than snarky responses.

For example...

I shoot only in RAW and use LR3. My base settings for ISO 400 and 800 files are:

Sharpening

Amount 60
Radius .7
Detail 15
Masking 40

Noise Reduction

Luminance 35
Detail 40
Contrast 25
Color 25
Detail 50

I rarely shoot over 800 for anything and when I do, I adjust for the particular environment rather than use a global setting.

Would love to see what others are using and discussions on how using different settings might yield better results.

Interesting you use 35 luminance NR. That's how much I use for an ISO 3200 shot. For ISO 100-200 I use 3-5, ISO 400 8-12, ISO 800 15-20, ISO 1600 20-30. For detail I use around 65 and contrast 25. I found I was using more NR until I discovered how badly the detail setting was affecting the apparent noise in the shot. Since then I've backed this slider way off as it adds crazing like noise to areas of low texture, like skies, smooth water, painted walls etc. Using more mask allows more sharpening without accentuating noise.

Dec 13, 2011 at 09:33 PM

Jeff Nolten
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p.1 #12 · 7D PP Settings

I reprocessed my pigeon image using Hrow's NR and sharpening settings along with Garyvot's vibrance and clarity settings. There is a noticeable if not dramatic improvement over my versions from the other thread. There is still a little background noise visible when the image is displayed using my full 27" iMac screen but its not objectionable to me. As others have said a little selective NR on just the background would clean it up.

Being critical, the plane of focus is centered on the birds feet so the head and bill are a tad OOF. I should probably have used f8 to get all of him in focus.

2013 © Jeff Nolten

Canon EOS 7D 400 mm f/6.3 1/640 sec 800 ISO 0.0 EV

Dec 13, 2011 at 10:02 PM

Imagemaster
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p.1 #13 · 7D PP Settings

Since I am lazy and time-constrained, I just use a basic and simple method. Using Camera Raw 6.2, my NR settings are: Luminance - 0, Color - 25, and Color Detail - 50. Since I never play around with those sliders, I can't even tell you if those are just default settings.

Once in jpeg mode, I just use Neat Image to select a sample area of the background, let NI analyze it, then hit the Apply button. Usually I only do this to the background and on some shots I will apply NR twice.

After downsizing for the Web, I will select the subject and apply Smart Sharpen to the subject only. Maybe not the most efficient method, but I am happy with it.

Dec 13, 2011 at 10:47 PM

Jeff Nolten
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p.1 #14 · 7D PP Settings

Imagemaster, lovely image, as usual

Could you say what lens you were using and also the ISO, aperture, and shutter speed? Thanks.

Dec 13, 2011 at 10:58 PM

AGeoJO
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p.1 #15 · 7D PP Settings

Jeff Nolten wrote:
Being critical, the plane of focus is centered on the birds feet so the head and bill are a tad OOF. I should probably have used f8 to get all of him in focus.

Or you should have just focused on the eye/head; the feet are not that critical anyway and if they were a little out of focus, no big deal. Admittedly, it is easier said than done though

Dec 13, 2011 at 11:01 PM

mco_970
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p.1 #16 · 7D PP Settings

This is a very useful thread, thanks Henry.

Jeff - the dove shot looks nicely improved with the updated processing.

Dec 13, 2011 at 11:10 PM

Imagemaster
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p.1 #17 · 7D PP Settings

Jeff Nolten wrote:
Imagemaster, lovely image, as usual

Could you say what lens you were using and also the ISO, aperture, and shutter speed? Thanks.

Jeff, you should download a free exif viewer from somewhere if you don't have one.

That shot was with a rental 500 f4 & 1.4x TC.

Rest of the info is here:

2013 © Imagemaster

Dec 13, 2011 at 11:20 PM

BluesWest
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p.1 #18 · 7D PP Settings

There has already been a long thread on FM.com showing excellent low-light images from the 7D. Here is the link: 7D High ISO Images

John

Dec 14, 2011 at 12:22 AM

Jeff Nolten
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p.1 #19 · 7D PP Settings

Yes John, but that thread, like so many others just showed images at this or that ISO without giving much insight on how to process them after capture. I did see this post in that thread:

RGS65 wrote:
What this thread clearly discloses is that the 7D is capable of very good performance IF (and that's a big if) the photographer also knows how to properly process the image. Some of the shots look horrible and others are stunning. I don't chalk that up to camera variations - it's a result of properly exposed images when taken AND post-processing skills.

That is what this thread is about. You presumably have had your 7D since that January thread and use some nice telephotos with it. Would you care to share your post processing techniques? Thanks.

Dec 14, 2011 at 01:13 AM

Hrow
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p.1 #20 · 7D PP Settings

Pixel Perfect wrote:
Hrow wrote:
There is yet another thread running on whether the 7D is unreasonably noisy. Please be courteous and don't take this thread there.

One of the questions that often gets asked but rarely gets answered (and when answered gets lost in 5 pages of banter - as did Whayne's answer in the other thread) is what processes and settings people use to maximize the quality of their 7D files. Let's keep this discussion on the technical level and offer suggestions rather than snarky responses.

For example...

I shoot only in RAW and use LR3. My base settings for ISO 400 and 800 files are:

Sharpening

Amount 60
Radius .7
Detail 15
Masking 40

Noise Reduction

Luminance 35
Detail 40
Contrast 25
Color 25
Detail 50

I rarely shoot over 800 for anything and when I do, I adjust for the particular environment rather than use a global setting.

Would love to see what others are using and discussions on how using different settings might yield better results.

Interesting you use 35 luminance NR. That's how much I use for an ISO 3200 shot. For ISO 100-200 I use 3-5, ISO 400 8-12, ISO 800 15-20, ISO 1600 20-30. For detail I use around 65 and contrast 25. I found I was using more NR until I discovered how badly the detail setting was affecting the apparent noise in the shot. Since then I've backed this slider way off as it adds crazing like noise to areas of low texture, like skies, smooth water, painted walls etc. Using more mask allows more sharpening without accentuating noise.

Hmmm, with a Luminance setting of 3-5 I can't even see any impact. I'll have to play around a bit tomorrow to see if I am doing something wrong or very different. I have no expertise in this area so I have no doubt that my settings can be improved upon and its great to see how others are doing it.

Dec 14, 2011 at 03:33 AM

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