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Archive 2011 · Bar Mitzvah Dilemma Question...
  
 
DClarkfoto
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p.1 #1 · Bar Mitzvah Dilemma Question...


A few weeks ago I shot a Bar Mitzvah for a long time client, The parents are in a long heated divorce battle. The mom is my client and she paid me for the job. She refused to let me photograph the father during the Temple service, The dad just sent me an email asking for the images on a disc. My question is what should I do? Charge him? if i do how much? give him a CD or not? I have never had this happen before and was hoping someone on this can help me out. I want to make everyone happy. by the way the mom(client) doesn't care if he pays for a CD.
Thanks
Dennis Clark
www.dclatkfoto.com



May 19, 2011 at 01:15 PM
coreymatthew
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p.1 #2 · Bar Mitzvah Dilemma Question...


If the parents weren't going through a divorce, would you still charge the father for a CD? My gut reaction is not to let their divorce affect what you do.


May 19, 2011 at 02:54 PM
DrewFos
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p.1 #3 · Bar Mitzvah Dilemma Question...


^ Yep, this. You may want to get the mom's OK in writing just to CYA....


May 19, 2011 at 02:58 PM
DClarkfoto
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p.1 #4 · Bar Mitzvah Dilemma Question...


@coreymatthew... The problem is the mom in this case is he client, she has hired me for several parties and work functions, I wouldn't want to loose a good client over this. anybody ever go through this?


May 19, 2011 at 03:07 PM
TTLKurtis
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p.1 #5 · Bar Mitzvah Dilemma Question...


Yeah it's an awkward one for sure...

I think I'd just give the father the CD too. They may be divorced and she's the client, but he's still the father and it just doesn't feel right to make the other parent pay when he'd get it for free if the mom was willing to burn him a copy.



May 19, 2011 at 03:26 PM
DB
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p.1 #6 · Bar Mitzvah Dilemma Question...


Phew - I wouldn't want to have to go through something like this. I can't decide if you should ask the mom, ask a lawyer, or just decide on your own. Such a confusing situation because they aren't technically divorced yet. When I give a disc to a bride, she is welcome to give copies to whoever she wants. But i imagine if someone came to me to get a disc - mainly because they wouldn't be able to get one from the bride for a similar reason (maybe bride and dad aren't talking), I would probably charge for the disc. Does the mom get a disc? If so, and if she refused to let the dad have a copy, you should probably charge for it.

EDIT: I still can't decide what to do. Let us know what you come up with and how it works out.



May 19, 2011 at 03:26 PM
camerausername
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p.1 #7 · Bar Mitzvah Dilemma Question...


DClarkfoto wrote:
by the way the mom(client) doesn't care if he pays for a CD.


Charge him $1



May 19, 2011 at 06:26 PM
cas5
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p.1 #8 · Bar Mitzvah Dilemma Question...


tough situation. Mom is the client, mom paid, Mom probably gets to determine who gets shot and who gets the disk. I would gently encourage the mom to release a disc to the divorced dad. It's the only right thing for her to do, but, being vindictive might be more important to her.


May 19, 2011 at 06:36 PM
Phyl
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p.1 #9 · Bar Mitzvah Dilemma Question...


It's going to cost you to mail it. Unless he's coming to pick it up charge him for your time and postal fees. 25-50 depending on your nearest post office and hourly rate.


May 19, 2011 at 06:55 PM
fotorelic
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p.1 #10 · Bar Mitzvah Dilemma Question...


If the mother is your client--hired you, signed the contract and paid you--only she gets the product. Based on what you said, if you give the father the files and she finds out, you will be in trouble. Stay out of their dispute and don't encourage anyone, one way or another.

However, you might try telling the mother that the father asked you for the disk, and if she wanted, you could send it--said in a way to indicate you are just trying to help and could save her time and having to talk to the father. But if she declines, just drop it and don't send the disk.

I had a similar case, but the father asked for another copy of the disk some months after I had delivered the original set. At that time, the parents were together and were both my clients. I gave the father the copy of the disk. This is different from your situation.



May 19, 2011 at 07:00 PM
 



jfnphotography
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p.1 #11 · Bar Mitzvah Dilemma Question...


If the mother is your client--hired you, signed the contract and paid you--only she gets the product.
+1



May 19, 2011 at 07:28 PM
TheGE
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p.1 #12 · Bar Mitzvah Dilemma Question...


^^^ How so? If the images were online and one of the guests wanted to buy a set, you wouldn't sell it?

The CD's a product you sell? He buys it, he gets it.

The mom's spiting him but that's her battle. You stay on the high ground, no one can fault you there. They can try, but they won't be able to. If you lose the mom over it, maybe you pick up the kids when they get married because they still love their dad.



May 19, 2011 at 08:45 PM
fotorelic
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p.1 #13 · Bar Mitzvah Dilemma Question...


The entire set of photos from an event is normally not purchased and not made available for purchase, by anyone other than the 'client'--usually the parents or the bride and groom/their families in the case of a wedding.

The father probably wants the OP to send him the disk of all the photos for free, and is probably trying to avoid having to deal with his wife. He probably thinks he won't get anything if it is up to her, and he may be right. The OP might offer the purchase of prints from select files.

I suppose you (the photographer) can sell an entire set of images to anyone who will pay your prices, but if I were the client who hired the photographer and paid the photographer for the work, I would be irritated if the photographer sold the entire set of files to anyone else, because that anyone else would have no business having access to the entire set. Such a situation wouldn't even come up normally since people who are interested in having the files are usually not on bad terms with the client.



May 19, 2011 at 09:09 PM
GeorgeM
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p.1 #14 · Bar Mitzvah Dilemma Question...


The client is the client.

If I photograph for a client, contracted, should I sell the photographs to a competitor as well?

If I photograph a boudoir shoot with a person should I sell the photographs to their previous beau as well? Or any other person who asks?

If I photograph a wife cheating for a husband should I sell the photographs to the wife as well?

The client is the client.

In this case it's very sad, hurtful and vindictive. That's their relationship, not yours. I'd say "Dad. It's too bad. So sad." and walk away.

Harsh. Sad. But your client has instructed you on how to do the shoot and has paid you for the shoot. It's her shoot, not yours.

George

ps: Do feel for the guy though



May 19, 2011 at 09:28 PM
ckhagen
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p.1 #15 · Bar Mitzvah Dilemma Question...


So... if dad had hired his own photog to shoot the event, knowing full well that his stbx wouldn't ever hand over any photos to him and even if she did he might not be in them... how would you have felt about that?


May 19, 2011 at 09:41 PM
ckhagen
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p.1 #16 · Bar Mitzvah Dilemma Question...


Oh and for those of you saying that the client is the client and the images shouldn't be sold to anyone else... how do you justify selling a print to a wedding guest/family member? What if dad wanted to purchase a full set of 4x6 prints?


May 19, 2011 at 09:43 PM
GeorgeM
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p.1 #17 · Bar Mitzvah Dilemma Question...


Point taken. Thought about that myself after I'd hit submit.

Full price, like any other guest, would be my answer but I do hope my point was taken.

George



May 19, 2011 at 09:47 PM
Bearmann
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p.1 #18 · Bar Mitzvah Dilemma Question...


DClarkfoto wrote:
by the way the mom(client) doesn't care if he pays for a CD.
Thanks
Dennis Clark
www.dclatkfoto.com


Well, if that's the case why not send him one for say $25 to recoup your expenses?

Barry

Oh....and did she pay for the photos from the joint account or her personal account? Oh, I'm just kidding!



May 19, 2011 at 09:58 PM
chipiii
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p.1 #19 · Bar Mitzvah Dilemma Question...


I'm confused.....

Your last sentence is "by the way the mom(client) doesn't care if he pays for a CD. "

That being said where is the problem?
Now if you are worried that she doesn't really mean it and if you are afraid of losing other bookings from her in the future then thats different, but your last sentence kind of looks like she doesn't care what you do.
Of course people don't say what they really mean all the time.

Chip



May 19, 2011 at 10:09 PM
fotorelic
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p.1 #20 · Bar Mitzvah Dilemma Question...


This is an abnormal situation, so 'normal' rules don't apply. Justifying doesn't apply. You have to use your judgement, combined with some self interest. If the father hired his own photographer, I would have gone along with it after determining that the mother wouldn't budge. I would have tried to work something out with the other photographer, even though normally, one would point to the clause in the contract about being sole photographer. Some of the local temples around where I am would not put up with this, however.

I would not sell the entire set of images to the father, but I would sell prints, at normal prices, if he wanted them. However, I would pass it by the mother and if the mother objected, I would have to refuse to sell prints to the father, telling him to talk to his wife, or tactfully and sympathetically recommending he talk to and get files or prints from other family members.

Why? Because if I didn't, the mother would not give me any other jobs, or recommendations. The father could bad mouth me, but if I was sympathetic to his situation and made helpful suggestions, I would hope he would at least not go to extremes.

I had one other case in which the mother hired me and paid for everything, and the father still showed up at the Bar Mitzvah. The mother specifically told me that the father was asked to help pay for the Bar Mitzvah but refused. Thankfully, he wasn't aggressive about being in the pro pictures and didn't ask for anything from me. If he did, I would have acted as already described.



May 19, 2011 at 10:17 PM
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