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Archive 2011 · Canon -> Nikon

  
 
Lars Johnsson
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p.6 #1 · Canon -> Nikon


With every existing camera there are links with people complaining about them. Finding 3 links with those people is not the same as the body is the biggest failure ever. Every Canon or Nikon body have people not happy with them. And what has the high ISO & AF in the D3s to do with if the AF works in the 1D4 or not ? And the 1D4 doesn't fix everything !!!! fix what? It's not the same AF as in the 1D3
But you wrote the 1D4 was the one of the two biggest AF failures ever. It only shows that you have never owned/used the body. And that you are just trying to make this a ridiculous Nikon is better than Canon. Or Apple vs PC threads.
So how much have you use the 1D4 body?



Mar 03, 2011 at 07:59 AM
Lars Johnsson
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p.6 #2 · Canon -> Nikon


A few quotes from your 3 links. Where you tell us that the 1D4 is the biggest failure ever. Does those quotes sound like the writers think it's the biggest failure ever

"Auto focus tracking (AI servo) does a phenomenal job on subjects that are moving fast. I tracked bald eagles and hawks flying at and around me. I tracked huge flocks of snow geese flying straight toward me. I rapidly turned and caught a mallard landing on a pond. In all of these cases, the auto focus quickly locked on its target and tracked it. In almost all of these sequences, every shot was in perfect focus"

"As always, what matters is reality - how the design works in real life. And in real life use, the statement I am continually telling myself while reviewing my 1D Mark IV shots (especially those taken in AI Servo mode) is ... I'm impressed.

Canon's DSLRs typically perform very well in One Shot AF mode. Like the 1D Mark III, the Canon EOS 1D Mark IV One-Shot-focuses very fast and very accurately. I don't perceive any differences in AF lock timing between the two"

"We'll get right to the point. The EOS-1D Mark IV's AF system shows signs of brilliance. For example, while testing the camera's ability to track an athlete running straight towards the camera, the EOS-1D Mark IV locked onto the subject and would not let go, producing sequence after sequence of mostly in-focus pictures. In several rounds, 25 or more frames in a row were either perfectly focused or just slightly out.

On the same track and under effectively identical test conditions to those that tripped up the EOS-1D Mark III's AI Servo AF every time, the EOS-1D Mark IV nailed it.



Edited on Mar 03, 2011 at 08:13 AM · View previous versions



Mar 03, 2011 at 08:11 AM
carstenw
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p.6 #3 · Canon -> Nikon


Not at all. For my purposes it might be a good body, since I don't rely on fast action AF, and the 1DIV is meant to have high ISO nearly as good as the D3 (not D3s though).

However, the fact that I haven't used it has no bearing on how good a camera it is, and I didn't write those articles. Note that those weren't just random people. Rob Galbraith in specific does very thorough reviews. If he finds a flaw, it is likely to affect that whole market segment.

Anyway, it was not my intention to focus on the flaws of one particular body (and for you to focus on one thing I said in no way negates the rest of what I said, even if you could show it was false, which is not the case here). Nikon AF in general is noticeably stronger than Canon AF, across the whole line, so if that is important to someone, there is one reason to choose Nikon. Flash is another. Backwards compatibility with manual focus Nikkors (would be FD for Canon) is yet another...

Look, if you want to rant about the greatness of Canons and not receive any response, try the Canon forum. I don't know why you are hanging around in the Nikon forum anyway. You should be out making great photos in Thailand.



Mar 03, 2011 at 08:11 AM
carstenw
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p.6 #4 · Canon -> Nikon


Lars Johnsson wrote:
A few quotes from your 3 links. Where you tell us that the 1D4 is the biggest failure ever.

"Auto focus tracking (AI servo) does a phenomenal job on subjects that are moving fast. I tracked bald eagles and hawks flying at and around me. I tracked huge flocks of snow geese flying straight toward me. I rapidly turned and caught a mallard landing on a pond. In all of these cases, the auto focus quickly locked on its target and tracked it. In almost all of these sequences, every shot was in perfect focus"

"As always, what matters is reality
...Show more

Yes, it is amazing how selective editing will make even a flawed camera look good, Lars. What are you trying to prove?

Here, let me help you find the parts you lost:

"Update 2/17/2010: Since writing the original review, I've had opportunity to shoot a couple of different AI Servo scenarios with the Canon EOS 1D Mark IV. Downhill skiing was the most AF-stressing of these and while the center-only AF point continued to work well (though not as well as with soccer - and poor with a no-contrast solid-black-clothed subject), specific peripheral AF points delivered only fair performance - missing some shots I thought it should not have missed and missing some by more of a distance than I previously experienced.

Update 4/07/2010: I shot a soccer game last night. The weather was hot, the sun was low in the sky and the uniforms were mostly solid white. Looking at the results, I wondered if I was using the same camera that I shot soccer with a couple of months ago. There were a higher percentage of OOF shots (that should not have been OOF) than I am used to seeing with this camera. The positive side was that I got some of the best sports shots I've ever taken.

Update 6/06/2010: Many thousands of sports action shots later, I can say that the 1D IV indeed lets me down on occassion. I haven't been able to determine any consistent factors for the cause of OOF AI Servo shots, but heat and the color white were often involved (FWIW). And still, very frequently, the 1D IV delivers a very impressive focus hit rate - as I saw in my original testing. So I believe that Canon still has room for improvement in this regard. "

And:

"While the 1D Mark IV’s autofocus system is almost perfect with birds in flight, it was ho-hum with birds swimming on a pond. I tracked cormorants and several types of ducks on the pond and discovered no matter how slow they swam, the auto focus couldn’t keep up.

The problem occurs mainly with birds that swam just slightly away from me. I would pan with the birds. In a typical burst sequence, the camera would get the first two shots perfectly in focus and then would get bored and stop tracking the bird.

By shots four or five, the point where the camera focused was significantly behind the bird. Eventually, it would correctly track the bird again for a few frames, only to fall behind again. To put it another way, this is an issue in sequences where you need some, although very little, change in focus from frame to frame."

And:

"When photographing a cormorant hunting from a log, I selected a solitary auto focus point that just fit within the bird’s head. Even still, the camera seemed to be distracted by the similarly-colored grass and brush behind it. AI servo caused the focus to ping-pong between the bird and the brush. In single-shot AF, about half the time the camera would focus on the brush."

And there is a very good reason why RG chose the words "shows signs of brilliance" instead of "brilliant, to wit:

"At speedskating, the camera managed a healthy number of in-focus frames of skaters rounding the corner, but coming down the straightaway towards the finish, and beyond the finish (where the winners will typically pump their fists), the results were mixed to poor. Too often the EOS-1D Mark IV would frontfocus significantly or, alternately, appear to stop autofocusing altogether.

Through over 150 pairs of fast 500m and 1000m skaters, as well as skaters in the slower 5000m event, the camera at times rose to the occasion, netting 10+ consecutive in-focus frames in a sequence with some competitors. At other times it would misfocus for almost as many frames.

Particularly puzzling was the camera's behaviour once the race was over: as skater after skater stood upright just past the finish, the camera would lose focus and sometimes not recover. If we had been photographing real races and not time trials it would be the point where the winners celebrate. This is not a good moment for the AF system to act up.

Going Up: Canon EOS-1D Mark IV (firmware v1.0.6) + EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS at 80mm, ISO 200, 1/500, f/6.3, Dyna-Lite Arena strobes. Click photo to enlarge (Photo by Rob Galbraith/Little Guy Media)
At basketball, the EOS-1D Mark IV didn't rise above the level of fair-to-middling. It made in-focus frames in both available light and strobed shooting - including some frames we're happy with, such as the one at right - but it missed about as many frames as it got.

When looking at the available light photos, it was apparent why: like speedskating, the EOS-1D Mark IV was too often shifting the focus way out in front of the subject. At other times, the focus was inexplicably drifting behind. After six games, what the pictures show is a camera that's neither very good nor terrible at autofocusing the sport of basketball.

The EOS-1D Mark IV's autofocus performance through 4.5 games of soccer was bizarre.

We've shot two games - one as night began to fall and the other lit only by high school stadium lighting - in which the AF system worked quite well, locking in on key moments, capturing many in-focus frames in extended sequences and generally doing about as good a job as we could hope for given the conditions.

We've also shot one late afternoon game, and half of another with a mix of low sun and stadium lights, in which autofocus performance was just so-so. There were some crisp moments and decent sequences but also an unacceptable number of frontfocused frames as well as a few backfocused ones, much like basketball (though the overall take was somewhat better than basketball).

Rounding out the soccer experience was one game in which the AF system verged on total collapse, much like the EOS-1D Mark III in its early days. The game took place on a beautiful sunny morning and the play was frontlit, meaning that conditions were not what we'd consider strenuous for autofocus. Curiously, the EOS-1D Mark IV's autofocus improved when the sun went behind a cloud at several points. By comparison, its autofocus fell off a cliff when the sun was out and the players in red jerseys were being photographed."

---

I don't think anyone is happier now that I have posted the parts I was referring to in the first place, as you surely could have figured out on your own, if you had wanted to. Yes, the camera is sometimes brilliant, but if it sometimes fails dramatically, who the hell would be happy?

Edited on Mar 03, 2011 at 08:19 AM · View previous versions



Mar 03, 2011 at 08:12 AM
Lars Johnsson
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p.6 #5 · Canon -> Nikon


I'm trying to prove that you know absolutely nothing about the camera. And that you are just writing your usual my camera is much better that yours..........
so how long did you own/use the body
And I also like the nikon D3s and D3...........even if I use Canon



Mar 03, 2011 at 08:14 AM
Lars Johnsson
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p.6 #6 · Canon -> Nikon


carstenw wrote:
Not at all. For my purposes it might be a good body, since I don't rely on fast action AF, and the 1DIV is meant to have high ISO nearly as good as the D3 (not D3s though).

However, the fact that I haven't used it has no bearing on how good a camera it is, and I didn't write those articles. Note that those weren't just random people. Rob Galbraith in specific does very thorough reviews. If he finds a flaw, it is likely to affect that whole market segment.

Anyway, it was not my intention to focus on the flaws
...Show more

All these cover ups writing about high ISO, flash photo and so on. What has that to do with the "Canon 1D4 is the biggest AF failure ever"

The camera has excellent AF. Better than any other Canon body ever produced. So how can it be Canons biggest AF failure then



Mar 03, 2011 at 08:26 AM
Shaun Nyc
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p.6 #7 · Canon -> Nikon


After my 4th return from cps of 1MKIII I was at the local beach here in LI shooting birds testing the camera again. You know the story, mirror box replacement, firmware after firmware, sending my entire lens to NJ twice for calibration etc etc. Two fellas walked by with fishing poles enroute to the jetty, they stopped over and started joking/chatting saying if I was shooting a Nikon they would have walked through my frame. They were funny and piqued my curiosity at that point to who they were. They both whipped out building security ID for Canon headquarters in lake success and then told me something that ruined my day..They told me the MKIII would never be straightened out because the design of the MKIII AF sensors themselves were flawed. Well my camera was acting the same, focusing anywhere it wanted in single point so I called my rep in NJ and told her what I was experiencing w camera and told her who I ran into without using names.This time they didnt ask for my images on CD.. She sent me a brand new retail 1D overnight and said that’s the most we can do. Was told to send my camera to them at lake success so engineers could dissect it..I said thanks for giving me a way out and recoup. I sold all my gear the next day..This is no story

http://shaun.zenfolio.com/img/s9/v0/p392745743-4.jpg



Edited on Mar 03, 2011 at 08:48 AM · View previous versions



Mar 03, 2011 at 08:47 AM
carstenw
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p.6 #8 · Canon -> Nikon


Lars, if you think the camera does well for you, buy it and use it to make great photos, no skin off my nose.

I did own a Canon (5D) and have used several others (400D, 450D, 40D, 50D, 5DII and 1DsII), and what I have seen have made it clear that I am just not interested in that system. There are certain systemic flaws, and a preoccupation with high resolution at the cost of other features which are more important to me, such as good AF and high ISO performance. The OP posted a list of reasons that he prefers Nikon, others followed up, and at some point the Canon fans arrived and started rebutting things, missing the point, I might add.

What you perhaps have missed is that many people who now shoot Nikon came from Canon, and quite recently at that. These are not generally uninformed opinions. Especially the 1DIII sent sports and action shooters to the D3 in droves. Given the fact that a system switch is costly and inconvenient, clearly there are some problem areas which need dealing with.

I don't know why my informed opinion of the shortcomings in general of the Canon system should somehow be invalid, and yours valid, just because I haven't used a specific model personally. Some people use the 1DIV (and other Canon models) without problems, and are happy. Good for them. Others were less lucky.



Mar 03, 2011 at 08:47 AM
carstenw
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p.6 #9 · Canon -> Nikon


Lars Johnsson wrote:
All these cover ups writing about high ISO, flash photo and so on. What has that to do with the "Canon 1D4 is the biggest AF failure ever"


This isn't a Canon 1DIV AF issue thread. It is a Canon->Nikon switch thread. The 1DIV thing is just the one comment in the thread that you got your knickers in a twist about that's all.



Mar 03, 2011 at 08:50 AM
Lars Johnsson
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p.6 #10 · Canon -> Nikon


carstenw wrote:
This isn't a Canon 1DIV AF issue thread. It is a Canon->Nikon switch thread. The 1DIV thing is just the one comment in the thread that you got your knickers in a twist about that's all.


Because I see you do these kind of comments all the time here, or in the alt forum. As soon as anybody use another body/lens than the brand you own/use.
And it's so childish and boring (also when it comes from a Canon fan boy)



Mar 03, 2011 at 08:57 AM
lexdiamonnyc
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p.6 #11 · Canon -> Nikon


Oh man!! You switchers are getting the Canon Fanboys all upset...lol.....


Funny how many Canon shooters hang out in the Nikon sub-forum......."Very tempting, the Dark side is..."



Mar 03, 2011 at 09:39 AM
Mike Mohrmann
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p.6 #12 · Canon -> Nikon


I've never quite understood the need to explain why one switches systems, or to have others defend either system and downgrade the other system. I've seen too many photographers using both Nikon and Canon who have produced splendid photographs. No tool is perfect. If something can't help you produce the photos you want, find another tool, or better yet, improve your techniques if they need improving.


Mar 03, 2011 at 09:44 AM
RRRoger
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p.6 #13 · Canon -> Nikon


I gotta agree with the rebuttal.
I especially prefer the Ergonomics on the Nikons.

I upgraded? from a D90 to the 5D2 for Video and 21mp Landscape.
The AF really sucks. Forget trying to shoot anything moving.
And, I think the 5D2 is Canon's best camera, especially for the price.
The Cannonites that rave on, all shoot fully manual.

I then upgraded to a D7000. Every single thing is better now for me.

However, I do wish Canon would fix something besides the misleading specifications. Nikon needs the competition to encourage them to do even greater things.


lisy78 wrote:
Doug,

The comment you made about the 5D + 35L I think is a strong indication of our different philosophy when it comes to what we expect from our cameras.

I have that combo. It's great, I love it. But you know what? It does NOT sell me any images. What sells images for me is not having to wonder whether my shots are in focus or not, because some idiot decided it makes sense that the LCD isn't really showing me the sharpness of my raw. Or because some other idiot decided that it makes sense that to go check focus
...Show more


Edited on Mar 03, 2011 at 10:49 AM · View previous versions



Mar 03, 2011 at 09:59 AM
carstenw
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p.6 #14 · Canon -> Nikon


Really? What other brands have I been hard on, apart from Canon? Do you just make up stuff?

I may be hard on Canon, but I was very disappointed with the system I had, and angry at how Canon handled a sensor problem within the warranty period. I will recommend against Canon whenever I get a chance, but based on real issues, not made up fanboy crap. You are free to recommend Canon, if you like, and intelligent readers can make up their own mind. Arguing against me is pointless for two reasons: 1) I won't change my mind nor back down, and 2) there are real issues which I can provide links to document.

Anyway, I am done arguing with you. In the past I have enjoyed your contributions and photos (even those made with Canon equipment), but somehow you no longer really post photos and just argue a bit everywhere. Why the change for the worse?



Mar 03, 2011 at 10:13 AM
Shaun Nyc
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p.6 #15 · Canon -> Nikon


TTLKurtis wrote:
I was researching lenses, and after Todd suggested it, I looked into the 14-24 rather than just going with the 14 prime for architectural work... well from the review I found comparing the 14-24 with the 14L... the 14 was crap by comparison (and I'm happy with my 14L, mind you). So, I'm excited.

I'm planning to have a 14-24, 24-70, 70-200, and a 105 macro. That is ALL.
.


I’ve spent some time w the 14L II/5D2 , not original 14L. Yes the 14-24 spanks it thoroughly in the resolution department especially right from 2.8 however the 14-24 does have some end distortion at the wide end and the 14L II had basically none. I usually dial in +6 in LR, no biggie. With that said the 14-24 can come up w some neat detailed stuff wide open/hand held. Love it for street shooting

D3
14mm F2.8 iso3200 1/60
http://shaun.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v10/p326880716-5.jpg

14mm F2.8 iso3200 1/20
http://shaun.zenfolio.com/img/s9/v13/p653435393-5.jpg

14mm F2.8 iso3200
http://shaun.zenfolio.com/img/s10/v18/p230685818-5.jpg

14mm F2.8 iso800 1/50
http://shaun.zenfolio.com/img/s10/v18/p976565085-5.jpg



Mar 03, 2011 at 10:20 AM
fracas
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p.6 #16 · Canon -> Nikon


lisy78 wrote:
6. ability to actually see if a shot is in focus, on the LCD


What do you mean by this? I asked for an explanation to a friend who owns a D700, but he couldn't tell me the difference with respect to what I can see on my Canon 5dmkII.
Thanks, francesco



Mar 04, 2011 at 05:26 AM
carstenw
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p.6 #17 · Canon -> Nikon


Perhaps the comment was made regarding the 1DsIII?


Mar 04, 2011 at 07:30 AM
Sven Jeppesen
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p.6 #18 · Canon -> Nikon


fracas wrote:
What do you mean by this? I asked for an explanation to a friend who owns a D700, but he couldn't tell me the difference with respect to what I can see on my Canon 5dmkII.
Thanks, francesco


There isn't any difference in what you can see on the D700 and a FF from Canon. Only if they like carstenw like to compare it against a much older Canon body



Mar 04, 2011 at 07:50 AM
Cliff L.
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p.6 #19 · Canon -> Nikon


Sven Jeppesen wrote:
There isn't any difference in what you can see on the D700 and a FF from Canon. Only if they like carstenw like to compare it against a much older Canon body



Time to get your eyes checked, methinks...



Mar 04, 2011 at 08:36 AM
Sven Jeppesen
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p.6 #20 · Canon -> Nikon


molson wrote:
Time to get your eyes checked, methinks...


So tell me, what's better on the D700 LCD compared to the 5DmkII then ? They have exactly the same specs also



Mar 04, 2011 at 08:51 AM
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