What gives? I brought my Nex-5N, not less but five 35mm lenses and a tripod to the top of a small hill. That gave me a view of a part of Gothenburg, Sweden. The weather was mainly overcast with the sun sparsely giving some light to the scene.
I fired away and as the results give some perspective to the lens testing taking place here of lately I decided to post some crops.
The crops are badly thought out as I misunderstood the map and in the end I had only a dark and murky building in the focus plane at the right side. I sharpened the crops until they looked fine and then I sharpened them once again. All that to ensure there are reasons to bash me. I really liked Philippe's disclaimer the other day but decided to take another approach. Please feel free to complain.
If you want to see the f/2 and f/5.6 crops from these lenses you can visit this gallery.
The result was partly surprising (to me that is). As a test like this is far from perfect I was hoping for some clues and Indeed, I got that. Comments are welcome....Show more →
Hmm, thanks for the test, but all these crops look pretty terrible to me. Are the 100% crops or greater? There's a very plasticy mushy look to all the images like what you'd expect to find with a combination of heavy noise reduction and sharpening. I was surprised to see that they were taken at ISO 100. Is this typical for a 5n at 100% or is this due to other factors (distance and atmospheric haze perhaps?). I would have expected better results, particularly from the leica and zm lenses at f5.6. Am I expecting too much from a crop sensor?
lenticular11 wrote:
And there was I thinking that you were referring to the spending conflict between purchasing an iMac, or having the funds to do a Masters in Business Admin.!! just what is an MBA?
crappy jones - awesome BW portrait. No malfunction in the image-capturing capability of that lens for sure, nor the PP competence.
mco - really like the caravan shot.
pcvrz22g - guess this is the place where kit-lenses often are found inferior. Some like the 16/2.8 though, personally I like some shots I see with it.
sebboh - wish I had the guts to get one of those Jupiter 3's you're doing so great with it. They're not expensive but often look overly used and even scratchy - at least the ones I've seen so far.
partitura wrote:
Sebboh - I really love the Contax G 45 stitch! Did you take that with a pano head, or do it hand held?
hand held, i don't have a pano head and really only use my tripod at home to take pictures of lenses i'm selling. the idea of carrying a tripod with the tiny NEX seems a bit silly to me.
mco_970 wrote:
Some of my first Nex C3 test shots.
those first two are spectacular!
frezeiss wrote:
Sebboh, I seem to always like the bokeh that you and your lens produce. whats a jupiter 3 and what do you use to frame your pictures?
pcvrz22g wrote:
Does someone have a gallery of examples using one of the stock lenses for the 5n. I see tons of images in this thread but it seems the majority are adapted lenses. After looking through the to about page 90 my eyes hurt....I share your pain. BTW, can't this forum have a 'visit first post unread' button for use in each thread?
Having just got my 5N a couple of weeks back, I had no suitable alt lens adapters at that time, so naturally started with the kit 18-55 and 16, both of which I find PDG.
flashinm wrote:
Hmm, thanks for the test, but all these crops look pretty terrible to me. Are the 100% crops or greater? There's a very plasticy mushy look to all the images like what you'd expect to find with a combination of heavy noise reduction and sharpening. I was surprised to see that they were taken at ISO 100. Is this typical for a 5n at 100% or is this due to other factors (distance and atmospheric haze perhaps?). I would have expected better results, particularly from the leica and zm lenses at f5.6. Am I expecting too much from a crop sensor? ...Show more →
the quoted crops look typical for a 100% landscape shot at f/1.2 in lightroom with no sharpening or noise reduction. the f/5.6 crops that require looking in the gallery also look normal to me for distant cityscape with zero sharpening and noise reduction and everything else at defaults. the crops would look much higher in contrast and sharper with less grain if they were of something closer (much less atmospheric haze). you should compare these to other shots taken of a city at infinity not to shots of walls or a bookshelves etc. ulrik posted a comparison of the d700 with sigma lux to the nex-5 with cv 35/1.2 earlier in the thread that looks much better at 100% due to the short distance: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/969329/131#10161169
flashinm wrote:
Hmm, thanks for the test, but all these crops look pretty terrible to me. Are the 100% crops or greater? There's a very plasticy mushy look to all the images like what you'd expect to find with a combination of heavy noise reduction and sharpening. I was surprised to see that they were taken at ISO 100. Is this typical for a 5n at 100% or is this due to other factors (distance and atmospheric haze perhaps?). I would have expected better results, particularly from the leica and zm lenses at f5.6. Am I expecting too much from a crop sensor? ...Show more →
There was some, but little of it only, haze. That explains some of the lack of clarity. The rest of the problems are due to the PP. 2 seconds shutter delay, sturdy tripod, careful focusing (but at the center of the image only mind you) and all that was followed by a boring PP routine with everything in ACR set to default except for sharpening (zero) and contrast (set to linear). Combine that with boring conditions, overcast, and this is the result. I mentioned I sharpened and then sharpened the crops again before posting. Without the sharpening they were too boring and the differences were less accentuated.
I don't know if you expect too much or not but I don't recall my 5DMkII giving me much better using a sharp 50 under the same conditions.
Remember the Summilux' focal plane both bends and moves when stopping down. I refocused it between the images and the net result is worse edges stopped down than wide open.
EDIT: I forgot to say the crops are 100% crops indeed. And, to judge me as a "lens reviewer" you can have a look at this thread where I had a "First look" at the CV 35/1.2 II. That thread has come to its end but I'm obviously
a) not yet done with finding out about the best 35mm lens for me
and
b) in the middle of an unproductive period
and sebboh wrote:
the quoted crops look typical for a 100% landscape shot at f/1.2 in lightroom with no sharpening or noise reduction. the f/5.6 crops that require looking in the gallery also look normal to me for distant cityscape with zero sharpening and noise reduction and everything else at defaults. the crops would look much higher in contrast and sharper with less grain if they were of something closer (much less atmospheric haze). you should compare these to other shots taken of a city at infinity not to shots of walls or a bookshelves etc. ulrik posted a comparison of the d700 with sigma lux to the nex-5 with cv 35/1.2 earlier in the thread that looks much better at 100% due to the short distance: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/969329/131#10161169...Show more →
Ah, not only due to the clear nice indoor climate and short distance, but also thanks to ulrik's post processing. I asked him about it but I don't think he noticed. In his post he mentioned some standard Lightroom routine and I suspect it includes sharpening and clarity and levels. ?
Just received my adapter for C/Y lenses and did a sharpness test with kit lens (18-85),C/Y 28/2.8, 50/1.7 and 85/2.8. Shooting a written label from a tripod, what I found was that the 28mm is good from f4 to f8, the 50mm is good from f2.8 to f8, and that my 85 is a lemmon...much weaker then those and the kit lens at all apertures...
At some apertures the kit lens performed quite well, at others it's a lemmon...
Quite interesting. Have other C/Y on NEX 5n users found the same?
Jonas B wrote:
There was some, but little of it only, haze.
at those distances the haze doesn't have to be visible at all to have a large effect. i've been amazed how much gets lost on what i think is a clear day. you really notice it when you compare to shots at the same distance in the middle of nowhere at high altitude.
sebboh wrote:
[
the quoted crops look typical for a 100% landscape shot at f/1.2 in lightroom with no sharpening or noise reduction. the f/5.6 crops that require looking in the gallery also look normal to me for distant cityscape with zero sharpening and noise reduction and everything else at defaults. the crops would look much higher in contrast and sharper with less grain if they were of something closer (much less atmospheric haze). you should compare these to other shots taken of a city at infinity not to shots of walls or a bookshelves etc. ulrik posted a comparison of the d700 with sigma lux to the nex-5 with cv 35/1.2 earlier in the thread that looks much better at 100% due to the short distance: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/969329/131#10161169...Show more →
Ok thanks. I didn't realize that ulrik's book shots were crops.
sebboh wrote:
at those distances the haze doesn't have to be visible at all to have a large effect. i've been amazed how much gets lost on what i think is a clear day. you really notice it when you compare to shots at the same distance in the middle of nowhere at high altitude.
True. In this case I didn't care as I was looking for the performance differences. The small differences visible at f/5.6 is nothing to care about in that comparison.
Jonas, thanks for the reply. I'm seriously considering ditching my 5DII and going full mirrorless but I have some reservations. I've seen tons of great shots on this forum from NEX cameras, but I occasionally print pretty large (36X24) so pixel level detail is pretty important. Do you still have your Canon? How do you feel they compare?
I'm waiting to see what the NEX 7 looks like in good hands with good lenses before I make the jump. I think I will decide between that and the GXR with 16mpx chip and m module, or I may just decide to wait and see what else comes out (FF mirrorless would be outstanding). Anyway, thanks for your time and effort.
flashinm wrote:
Jonas, thanks for the reply. I'm seriously considering ditching my 5DII and going full mirrorless but I have some reservations. I've seen tons of great shots on this forum from NEX cameras, but I occasionally print pretty large (36X24) so pixel level detail is pretty important. Do you still have your Canon? How do you feel they compare?
I'm waiting to see what the NEX 7 looks like in good hands with good lenses before I make the jump. I think I will decide between that and the GXR with 16mpx chip and m module, or I may just decide to wait and see what else comes out (FF mirrorless would be outstanding). Anyway, thanks for your time and effort....Show more →
Printing at that size, looking for fine detail, keep the 5DII...I also have both, and will certainly do...
flashinm wrote:
Jonas, thanks for the reply. I'm seriously considering ditching my 5DII and going full mirrorless but I have some reservations. I've seen tons of great shots on this forum from NEX cameras, but I occasionally print pretty large (36X24) so pixel level detail is pretty important. Do you still have your Canon? How do you feel they compare?
Not that I am Jonas but having used 5N for a couple of months I cannot ditch my 5D2. Simple reason is lack of fast wideangle lenses. I dont consider 28 or above to be WA on a NEX. But I guess it all depends on what you shoot.
Love the NEX though and a couple of high quality MF lenses I've acquired - and it follows me everywhere still while the 5D2 collects dust. But the big gun comes out when AF and/or lowlight photography is the thing.
wfrank - I'm a very recent 5N owner, however my philosophy re which camera to use fits closely with yours.
I visit MotoGP and World Superbike world championship motorcylcle racing twice a year here, that's when the 1D and the L primes come into their own. I also used a 40D and EF 50 f1.4 a lot for dusk city scenes last year.
I'm amazed at the few shots I've taken at high ISO with the 5N. It seems to have a preponderance for a cool cast in many shots though (any ISO) , have you found this?
Well I don't own any AF lenses for my 5dii and I don't do a whole lot of low light photography. I care mostly about landscapes and stopped down image quality. I often backpack/camp with my camera so that's where mirrorless has a huge advantage. I don't mind carrying heavy gear if it gets me the best image quality, but if I can get there with less weight that's a plus.
flashinm wrote:
Well I don't own any AF lenses for my 5dii and I don't do a whole lot of low light photography. I care mostly about landscapes and stopped down image quality. I often backpack/camp with my camera so that's where mirrorless has a huge advantage. I don't mind carrying heavy gear if it gets me the best image quality, but if I can get there with less weight that's a plus.
I have sold my 5D and 5DMkII as my old tired eyes need an EVF offering enlarged view. If that hadn't been the case I would have kept my FF stuff. I don't see any advantage for the Nex-5 or 5N when it comes to image quality.
I'm also in the camp waiting for a FF LIVE camera. It's a matter of time. Meanwhile I'll stick to the Nex unless Ricoh makes that 16MP module and a better a viewfinder and perhaps a second version of the body part also. Sosua's thread comparing the Nex-5N to the GXR is interesting.
wfrank wrote:
sebboh - wish I had the guts to get one of those Jupiter 3's you're doing so great with it. They're not expensive but often look overly used and even scratchy - at least the ones I've seen so far.
yeah, i spent more than a year looking myself. most of what i saw was either super scuffed up lenses or from somewhere in the old USSR that would take two months to ship and cost me more than $40 extra. i finally got one from adorama in excellent shape - clear clean glass and polished looking body with an overly smooth focus like it just was relubed.
I agree, without Sosua's thread I might have overlooked the GXR entirely. I'm also intrigued by the idea that the NEX 7 might have a very light AA filter (LL rolling review). Even if I have to use SLR lenses for wides, I think I have a very competent lens lineup in mind. I will probably just have to buy one and do some testing before I sell my 5dii.
