I love how the discussion of the accuracy of the sticker is being drowned under the legality defense, which is basically an admission that loophole usage is in full swing.
The rules for marking involve multiple articles of the CFR ... including the below article. If you do not know what the below article legally means, in conjunction with the other articles of the CFR ... you really shouldn't be crying foul without knowing what you're talking about on such a legal matter.
The OP's original question was a good one ... the correct answer is in the CFR's.
[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 19, Volume 1]
[Revised as of April 1, 2010]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 19CFR134.35]
[Page 838]
TITLE 19--CUSTOMS DUTIES
CHAPTER I--U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND
SECURITY; DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
PART 134_COUNTRY OF ORIGIN MARKING--Table of Contents
Subpart D_Exceptions to Marking Requirements
Sec. 134.35 Articles substantially changed by manufacture.
(a) Articles other than goods of a NAFTA country. An article used in
the United States in manufacture which results in an article having a
name, character, or use differing from that of the imported article,
will be within the principle of the decision in the case of United
States v. Gibson-Thomsen Co., Inc., 27 C.C.P.A. 267 (C.A.D. 98). Under
this principle, the manufacturer or processor in the United States who
converts or combines the imported article into the different article
will be considered the ``ultimate purchaser'' of the imported article
within the contemplation of section 304(a), Tariff Act of 1930, as
amended (19 U.S.C. 1304(a)), and the article shall be excepted from
marking. The outermost containers of the imported articles shall be
marked in accord with this part.
(b) Goods of a NAFTA country. A good of a NAFTA country which is to
be processed in the United States in a manner that would result in the
good becoming a good of the United States under the NAFTA Marking Rules
is excepted from marking. Unless the good is processed by the importer
or on its behalf, the outermost container of the good shall be marked in
accord with this part.
[T.D. 72-262, 37 FR 20318, Sept. 29, 1972, as amended by T.D. 94-1, 58
FR 69472, Dec. 30, 1993]
To add to this slam fest, the "made in USA" label you are looking at is on the front panel of the main body of the VML. The back label contains the proper caveat "Contains components from various countries of origin"
The battery pack itself is indeed designed in Nashville and manufactured totally in China. It correspondingly contains a predominant label properly stating "Made In China" Similarly, the charger is fully manufactured in China and bears a label that correctly and clearly says "Made In China"
So if you buy the entire VML assembly ($239.95), including battery pack and charger you are receiving three separate pieces, each properly properly labeled according to prevailing laws and industry standards. The battery pack, if bought separately, is $89.95 and the charger, if bought separately, is $29.95.
There is also a $14.95 high quality "camera bag" style carrying case that holds the complete VML, battery and charger, and has compartments for a spare battery and charger and cables. It was designed in Nashville and made in China. It is properly labeled "Made in China."
In short, we have made every possibly effort to comply with all labeling laws as we know them, and have gone the extra mile to divulge every aspect of the origin of the product and to bring a unique, versatile and extremely cost effective new product to photographers. In return I get threads full of whining armchair lawyer/activists with very little knowledge of what they profess to "know" and seemingly more interest in slamming and defaming than in actually discussing the pros and cons of the product line itself.
Fred and readership: Is this really what you want dominating this forum? Trying to figure out what the "meaning of "is" "is"? It always seems to end up this way on FM, thanks to the same handful of usual suspects.
As for myself and my company, I am proud to be one of the very few remaining American manufacturers, doing what I can and need to do to retain that status in an increasingly complex global marketplace while bringing the best equipment to market that I can at prices photographers can afford, particularly in a dying economy, while offering service and customer support I would hope to receive from other manufacturers.
miccullen wrote:
I love how the discussion of the accuracy of the sticker is being drowned under the legality defense, which is basically an admission that loophole usage is in full swing.
It's not a 'legality defense' ... it is the rules of law that the U.S. Government has established.
Why people want to cry foul for someone abiding by the rules really is confounding. Rather a modicom of respect for doing so would seem more appropriate ... maybe a bit of 'Golden Rule' should be considered.
How would you feel if people were incessantly slamming you for driving the speed limit? You'd likely want them to get off your back suggesting that you were being unfairly persecuted. But, I suppose you'd suggest this was just a 'legality defense' too.
I still think the OP posted a fair, objective, rational & legitimate question. Too bad so many people refuse to listen to and accept a likewise fair, objective, rational & legitimately correct response.
btw ... what part of Australia? Been about 15 years since I was last there (Perth, Hobart, Albany, Brisbane).
RustyBug wrote:
It's not a 'legality defense' ... it is the rules of law that the U.S. Government has established.
Ummm, yeah. Right.
Why people want to cry foul for someone abiding by the rules really is confounding.
I think it has expanded a little from that, to question whether the law really means anything at all. It's pretty clear that using this example, it means nothing at all.
btw ... what part of Australia.
Melbourne (bottom right corner of the mainland) where it's 100 of your archaic degrees :-)
Lets take this one step further and determine where all the raw materials for each and every part of the Vagabond Mini Lithium are sourced from, that way we can correctly calculate the precise percentage of USA content. We will also need to account for all the labor involved in each and every manufacturing process. Was that screw made in Tennessee or Timbuktu? Hey Paul, where's that glue on all those labels from, how about that cardboard box you ship it in and the tape it's sealed with, how about them light bulbs you use in your assembly facility, is that a Chinese computer you do your design work on? Is that a real poncho...i mean is that a mexican poncho or is that a Sears poncho? Hmmm...no foolin ...
Why don't we all just ignore the law and make up our own rules... sounds like a plan ... hey, maybe people who steal our pics would like to make up their own copyright rules too ... surely we wouldn't want them to comply with the law ... just sayin' ... I mean, it's not like it should equally apply to everyone or anything like that. Or maybe, we should just ignore the whole constitution and all that other legal crap that gives people their rights ... it's all hogwash anyway, right?
Paul Buff wrote:
To add to this slam fest, the "made in USA" label you are looking at is on the front panel of the main body of the VML. The back label contains the proper caveat "Contains components from various countries of origin"
The battery pack itself is indeed designed in Nashville and manufactured totally in China. It correspondingly contains a predominant label properly stating "Made In China" Similarly, the charger is fully manufactured in China and bears a label that correctly and clearly says "Made In China"
So if you buy the entire VML assembly ($239.95), including battery pack and charger you are receiving three separate pieces, each properly properly labeled according to prevailing laws and industry standards. The battery pack, if bought separately, is $89.95 and the charger, if bought separately, is $29.95.
There is also a $14.95 high quality "camera bag" style carrying case that holds the complete VML, battery and charger, and has compartments for a spare battery and charger and cables. It was designed in Nashville and made in China. It is properly labeled "Made in China."
In short, we have made every possibly effort to comply with all labeling laws as we know them, and have gone the extra mile to divulge every aspect of the origin of the product and to bring a unique, versatile and extremely cost effective new product to photographers. In return I get threads full of whining armchair lawyer/activists with very little knowledge of what they profess to "know" and seemingly more interest in slamming and defaming than in actually discussing the pros and cons of the product line itself ...Show more →
This thread wasn't about the pros and cons of your product. sorry. The thread was about if the product was correctly and legally labeled "Made In USA" and as you stated, your labeling contains caveats. One could make an argument that it is misleading at least.
Having said that, it appears that you have brought a great product to market at a great price. Kudos. I don't think having a made in China label diminishes the value at all and I think that getting too technical about the meaning of "Made In USA" by saying it applies to the front of the case but not the battery or charger or bag or board or whatever sounds a bit equivocal.
Anyway, after reading your last post I'm going to check out your product page because the product sounds interesting.
RustyBug wrote:
It's not a 'legality defense' ... it is the rules of law that the U.S. Government has established.
Why people want to cry foul for someone abiding by the rules really is confounding. Rather a modicom of respect for doing so would seem more appropriate ... maybe a bit of 'Golden Rule' should be considered.
Just to be argumentative I would point out that you are assuming that it passed some sort of compliance inspection and wasn't arbitrarily labeled.
Some are suggesting that it does NOT meet the government definition of domestic manufacture.
ddavid wrote:
Absolutely. I don't believe that the iPhone was labeled Made In USA
I think some people are questioning whether or not the PCB stuff meets the requirements to be labeled Made In USA or merely Assembled In USA
Discuss...
Did you read the link? Most of the parts for the iPhone come from countries other than China--it was only assembled in China. So does that make it "Made in China?" as it is labeled?
I think it has expanded a little from that, to question whether the law really means anything at all. It's pretty clear that using this example, it means nothing at all.
Well, corporations run the industrialized world...you certainly don't think they allow any laws to be passed that don't give them a back door, do you?
RustyBug wrote:
Why don't we all just ignore the law and make up our own rules... sounds like a plan ... hey, maybe people who steal our pics would like to make up their own copyright rules too ... surely we wouldn't want them to comply with the law ... just sayin' ... I mean, it's not like it should equally apply to everyone or anything like that. Or maybe, we should just ignore the whole constitution and all that other legal crap that gives people their rights ... it's all hogwash anyway, right?
I don't think anyone is suggesting that. Most seem to be suggesting that a) the regulations aren't what you would call 'watertight', and so can be interpreted somewhat loosely (no doubt that this was what was intended when it was written), and/or b) that the reality of a situation is often a long way from the legality of the same situation.
I'm just disappointed that the oft-used PCB time of "six weeks" hasn't got a run in the shipping delay explanation.
106F down here now, I'm wishing that it was somewhere between your temps and ours right now...
RDKirk wrote:
Well, corporations run the industrialized world...you certainly don't think they allow any laws to be passed that don't give them a back door, do you?
Not at all, I agree entirely with that. It's wrong (morally), but you're quite correct in reality.
ddavid wrote:
Just to be argumentative I would point out that you are assuming that it passed some sort of compliance inspection and wasn't arbitrarily labeled.
Some are suggesting that it does NOT meet the government definition of domestic manufacture.
First ... I respect the OP's suggestion that it might not comply with the gov't definition. But in order to even begin to answer / address that ... you MUST go to what the gov't statutes say ... IN FULL.
Second ... I am assuming nothing regarding passing some sort of compliance inspection (except that such a compliance inspection does not exist for every product mfr'd and so labeled). I am reading the CFR's (which I have both years of experience & formal government training in).
Third ... Paul has clearly stated through the various labeling in addition to the "Made In USA" label that his labeling is NOT arbitrary, but rather compliant.
Unless, someone conducts the amount of legal training in the CFR's necessary for people to get the full grasp of its complexity, it seems that people are going to remain unconvinced ... simply because it is more 'fun' to be argumentative and opinionated, than factual and stalwarts of truth. To this end, it is seemingly not possible to enlighten those whom intentionally choose to remain in the dark ... such is their choice in a free society.
RustyBug wrote:
Second ... I am assuming nothing regarding passing some sort of compliance inspection (except that such a compliance inspection does not exist for every product mfr'd and so labeled). I am reading the CFR's (which I have both years of experience & formal government training in).
Third ... Paul has clearly stated through the various labeling in addition to the "Made In USA" label that his labeling is NOT arbitrary, but rather compliant.
The cynic in me suspects that the "Made in USA" label being prominently displayed on the front of the custom Chinese made case is more of a marketing/window dressing move than a "compliance" issue. If so, I would suggest that the product doesn't need subterfuge to increase its perceived value and doing so diminishes the luster of the brand.
Splitting hairs and caveats and loopholes tends to give customers an icky feeling.
Edit:
Lest you think I am living in the dark I think that the size and placement of the Made In USA label implies much more than it means. Would you agree?
