fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              8              10              13       14       end
  

Archive 2010 · Canon to Sony?...

  
 
Tariq Gibran
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #1 · Canon to Sony?...


schristie11 wrote:
When I upgraded from 12-14 bit files, everyone thought I upgraded glass, it was remarkable the differance.


If you read through the thread I linked to, you will learn that it is actually other variables creating that difference, not whether a camera is 12 bit or 14 bit (which is simply marketing in the case of Canon). The physicist I referred to compares Canon's.

The whole 12 bit v 14 bit discussion has been beaten to death. Already, links are being repeated from the thread I mentioned above so maybe read through the thread if the bit thing interests you.



Nov 25, 2010 at 12:16 AM
philip_pj
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.9 #2 · Canon to Sony?...


14 bit files? You see very little about it, it is regarded almost as a non-issue, dwarfed by other factors.

RCs can only do so much, we are all after something better, it's pure personal preference, I am unaware of any significant demosaicing breakthrough - more like incremental gains in the apps, mostly in tool refinement and range, local editability, performance (speed), integration, i/face usability and file compatibility. For instance, LR can now process an ARW Sony file to save it's life, apparently; I'll try it soon - again.

Tariq, if you read this, do you mind me asking what Raw Converter(s) do you like for Sony files?



Nov 25, 2010 at 02:03 AM
Tariq Gibran
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #3 · Canon to Sony?...


philip_pj wrote:
14 bit files? You see very little about it, it is regarded almost as a non-issue, dwarfed by other factors.

RCs can only do so much, we are all after something better, it's pure personal preference, I am unaware of any significant demosaicing breakthrough - more like incremental gains in the apps, mostly in tool refinement and range, local editability, performance (speed), integration, i/face usability and file compatibility. For instance, LR can now process an ARW Sony file to save it's life, apparently; I'll try it soon - again.

Tariq, if you read this, do you mind me asking what
...Show more

Hi Philip,

If you did not catch it way back in 2008, here (middle of page) you can see a comparison I did of both ACR and Raw Developer:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/698060/1

At that time, Raw Developer was clearly superior in extracting the most detail from a Sony a900 file. I have not performed any comparions recently but my feeling is that ACR has improved since then. I use Raw Developer when I'm trying to extract the finest detail and make very large prints but for jobs which I have to process hundreds of files and the images will never be used at extreme sizes, I use Lightroom/ACR.



Nov 25, 2010 at 08:50 AM
JimU
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #4 · Canon to Sony?...


the talk about prices was entertaining. lets keep discussing that.

Sony 70-200/2.8: $1,650
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/463920-REG/Sony_SAL70200G_SAL_70200G_Zoom_AF_70_200mm.html

Canon 70-200/2.8 IS 2: $2,070
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/680103-USA/Canon_2751B002_EF_70_200mm_f_2_8L_IS.html

Nikon 70-200/2.8 VR 2: $2,170
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/644741-USA/Nikon_2185_AF_S_Nikkor_70_200mm_f_2_8G.html

disclaimer. I have never bought any sony lens other than two kit lenses included in my first dslr.



Nov 25, 2010 at 11:33 AM
JimU
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #5 · Canon to Sony?...


Sony 100/2.8 Macro: $680
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/439162-REG/Sony_SAL100M28_SAL_100M28_100mm_f_2_8_AF.html

Canon 100/2.8 Macro IS: $884
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/647011-USA/Canon_3554B002_EF_100mm_f_2_8L_Macro.html

Nikon 105/2.8 Macro VR: $890
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/424744-USA/Nikon_2160_105mm_f_2_8G_ED_IF_AF_S.html



Nov 25, 2010 at 11:47 AM
schristie11
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #6 · Canon to Sony?...


This is a completely biased statement, your comparing apples and oranges.
You compared prices of a Sony lens does not have IS, with the Canon and Nikon that does have IS.
Canon has a fine non-IS lens for sale, which should be used for price comparison - as it relates to my points and argument in this thread.

Canon 70-200 f.2.8 (non-IS) : $1,300
Sony 70-200 f.2.8 (non-IS) : $1,650

Canon 100 f/2.8 Macro (Non-IS): $519
Sony 100/2.8 Macro (Non-IS): $680


Question: Why does it cost more?
Answer: Sony branding.


JimU wrote:
the talk about prices was entertaining. lets keep discussing that.

Sony 70-200/2.8: $1,650
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/463920-REG/Sony_SAL70200G_SAL_70200G_Zoom_AF_70_200mm.html

Canon 70-200/2.8 IS 2: $2,070
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/680103-USA/Canon_2751B002_EF_70_200mm_f_2_8L_IS.html

Nikon 70-200/2.8 VR 2: $2,170
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/644741-USA/Nikon_2185_AF_S_Nikkor_70_200mm_f_2_8G.html




Nov 25, 2010 at 12:32 PM
JimU
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #7 · Canon to Sony?...


does that mean canon is screwing everyone by charging everyone more for their canon brand on their 5D2 ?


Nov 25, 2010 at 01:11 PM
hans98ko
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #8 · Canon to Sony?...


As one who is involved in almost all aspect of photographic equipment for commercial and military application, I must said that there are a lot of false information posted on this particular thread.
One will be surprise to find out that brands got nothing to do with picture quality or price. Some will be better some will be worst coming from the same brand, so is with cost.
Do you think that Canon, Leica, Nikon, Olympus, Panasonic, Pentax and Zeiss make all their own lenses or elements and prisms? No Way Jose! I have seen some coming from the same source but not their own.
Coming from the same source does not mean the same quality, this will depend on the quality standard set by each individual brand. Ths is facts!

Believe it or not!

Why must one discourage others from using a brand that is different from oneself when it actually encourage competition and at the same time helps to manage cost.

Edited on Nov 25, 2010 at 01:27 PM · View previous versions



Nov 25, 2010 at 01:18 PM
AhamB
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #9 · Canon to Sony?...


JimU wrote:
does that mean canon is screwing everyone by charging everyone more for their canon brand on their 5D2 ?


Not really, since it has HD video and Live View.

Let's quit beating the dead horse of the pricing though. It's not interesting at all. Everyone can look up which lens or body has which features, and everyone values those differently and is willing to pay for them accordingly. On other forums there are endless quibbles of people trying to convince each other which brand is better, but I like this forum because that is usually not the level of discussions here. I'm disappointed to see this nonsense in this thread though.

Edited on Nov 25, 2010 at 02:33 PM · View previous versions



Nov 25, 2010 at 01:25 PM
edwardkaraa
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #10 · Canon to Sony?...


AhamB wrote:
Not really, since it has HD video and Live View.

Let's quit beating the dead horse of the pricing though. It's not interesting at all. Everyone can look up which lens or body has which features, and everyone values those differently and is willing to pay for them accordingly. On other forums there are endless quibbles of people trying to convince each other which brand is better, but I like this forum because that is usually not the level of discussions here. I'm disappointed to see this nonsense in this thead though.


Well said.

+1



Nov 25, 2010 at 01:36 PM
schristie11
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #11 · Canon to Sony?...


The pricing is not unimportant, but if you want your thread to go a specific direction I wont be against it.

When pricing out Body + 6 to 12 lenses, it does add up to a lot more with some brands than other brands.
This is often over looked at the beginning, and that is one of the reasons I brought it up.

If you pay -$300 less for a Sony body, but you are charged +$300 for every lens, the pill gets harder to swallow the more lenses you buy.

If you pay +300 for a Canon body, but you are charged -$300 on every lens, you can afford more lenses making the pill is much easier to swallow.

For every 3 or 4 Sony lenses you purchase, you should get the next one free, if you compare to Canon's pricing. lol
e.g.: Buy four lenses, each priced to save $300 x 4 = $1200
e.g.: Buy six lenses, each priced to save $200 x 6 = $1200
e.g.: Buy eight lenses, each priced to save $150 x 8 = $1200



Nov 25, 2010 at 04:33 PM
Sean Mills
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #12 · Canon to Sony?...


That's really quite the generalized guide there.

It really depends on the lens, and what you consider a fair correspondence.
Does a 24 1.4 F1.4L correlate to a Zeiss ZA 24 F2? Not in my book, but to each his own.
The lens lines are not identical so it's tough to make that call.

And while some lenses are indeed more expensive, I have felt each "$300" increment well worth the return on image quality. Though that is subjective and just my opinion.




Nov 25, 2010 at 05:12 PM
carstenw
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #13 · Canon to Sony?...


schristie11 wrote:
If you pay -$300 less for a Sony body, but you are charged +$300 for every lens, the pill gets harder to swallow the more lenses you buy.

If you pay +300 for a Canon body, but you are charged -$300 on every lens, you can afford more lenses making the pill is much easier to swallow.


Some may buy their cameras based on pricing. I buy the camera I like. You couldn't pay me to take a Canon. Life is too short.



Nov 25, 2010 at 05:16 PM
OwlsEyes
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.9 #14 · Canon to Sony?...


carstenw wrote:
Some may buy their cameras based on pricing. I buy the camera I like. You couldn't pay me to take a Canon. Life is too short.


Wow.. that's a bit extreme... life is too short to shoot with Canon

I feel really bad for those who make a living w/ canon gear... are Leica or Sony a pathway to riches...

sometimes the investment in gear has to be justified.

Just say'n



Nov 25, 2010 at 05:57 PM
Tariq Gibran
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #15 · Canon to Sony?...


schristie11 wrote:
The pricing is not unimportant, but if you want your thread to go a specific direction I wont be against it.

When pricing out Body + 6 to 12 lenses, it does add up to a lot more with some brands than other brands.
This is often over looked at the beginning, and that is one of the reasons I brought it up.

If you pay -$300 less for a Sony body, but you are charged +$300 for every lens, the pill gets harder to swallow the more lenses you buy.

If you pay +300 for a Canon body, but you are charged -$300
...Show more

So, going by this logic, I have an extra $3500 to spend on Sony Zeiss ZA lenses vs. Canon glass because the only other Canon body which offers a few of the a900 features I need is $6500! As many have said, it's really not an apples to apples comparison. There are not exact equivalents in each system so the only thing a prospective buyer can do is match up their needs to a system that offers that, whatever the individual criteria might be...camera bodies, lenses, support, file quality, etc.



Nov 25, 2010 at 08:48 PM
hans98ko
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #16 · Canon to Sony?...


I always tell those people who are not ready to put in good money on their equipment not to get into photography because it is just like women and fast cars, both requires constant pampering and maintenance.
And for those who have all the money in the world to spend like 2 of the owners of the EF 1200mm, they can spend it the way they like and no one can tell them what they can't do.
Reason is that each of us are different even for twins.



Nov 25, 2010 at 10:12 PM
philip_pj
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.9 #17 · Canon to Sony?...


I dunno, sometimes we get these funny threads that head off all over, all part of the fun to be had here at FM Alt! Let me throw more fuel on the fire.

For info, Sony managed to be first at full-frame 'IS' in-body, so one serious and beneficial consequence is that they need *no* IS lenses. I don't want to start off an IS/VR vs in-body SS discussion, lets say both are very good for handholding and the in-lens systems may be better for very long tele work - but, unique for Alt lenses, only Sony of the FF brigade will stabilise ALL your old lenses, and you pay no premium for it, with the A850.

There is also the opinion of many keen observers that, compared with non-IS versions, IS lenses are more complex, heavier, costlier to develop, less durable (a big issue for the future of the lenses and at some stage resale value), and offer less performance. So that is a pretty big advantage, quite likely, to Sony and Pentax in APS-C, and a market gotcha for Canikon, since they can hardly follow that path now.

Next up, pros need to turn out work that is above the threshold of 'acceptable' as judged by their clients - in no way are they out to achieve highest quality! It's a business decision they are forced to make, and gets down to system issues, support, installed base, availability, backup etc. Choice of gear is often secondary to these and other factors. Each week I see work here on FM that would turn many pros green with envy, such is the care and talent put into it.

And yes, plenty of that great work is done with Canon equipment, Canon bodies anyway, but I do know what carstenw is driving at, it is all a personal preference thing and which factors we value highest. You have to like Nikon's build quality, flash system and metering, and AIS lenses, for example, plus their latest wide angles are truly top drawer.

I'm staying away from the fast women piece, however.



Nov 26, 2010 at 12:56 AM
AhamB
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #18 · Canon to Sony?...


OwlsEyes wrote:
Wow.. that's a bit extreme... life is too short to shoot with Canon

I feel really bad for those who make a living w/ canon gear... are Leica or Sony a pathway to riches...

sometimes the investment in gear has to be justified.

Just say'n


I agree, but I think Carsten didn't mean it the way you are putting it. He just means that he is so happy with his Nikon D3 that there is no way he would exchange it for a Canon just because their lenses are cheaper. By his logic, life is too short to choose the cheaper option and miss out on a camera that he'd enjoy more (which I completely agree with).

@Philip: I don't think that lenses like Canon's 70-200/2.8L II show that they are inferior to their predecessors without IS? I only know of the 300/4 non-IS being a bit sharper, and that IS made the bokeh of some of the supertele's a bit less smooth.

Edited on Nov 26, 2010 at 01:31 AM · View previous versions



Nov 26, 2010 at 01:12 AM
schristie11
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #19 · Canon to Sony?...


So.....

How much would you have to spend to get an a900 with HD video option?

Your $6500 is a laughable comparison of apples to oranges.

PS: which Canon are you refering to that costs $6500?
Was it the EOS-1Ds Mark III - becasue originally it was $8000, now reduced to $6500 msrp since it is so old 2007.
This body will be replaced with a new one approx 50mpixl with HD video in 6-12 months.
When will sony release one like that? How much will it cost?
I think the 1Ds MK III was released almsot 2 years before the Sony FF a900 released around 2009.
What would you have to of paid to shoot with a FF Sony pro body durring those years?

Tariq Gibran wrote:
So, going by this logic, I have an extra $3500 to spend on Sony Zeiss ZA lenses vs. Canon glass because the only other Canon body which offers a few of the a900 features I need is $6500! As many have said, it's really not an apples to apples comparison. There are not exact equivalents in each system so the only thing a prospective buyer can do is match up their needs to a system that offers that, whatever the individual criteria might be...camera bodies, lenses, support, file quality, etc.



Edited on Nov 26, 2010 at 01:37 AM · View previous versions



Nov 26, 2010 at 01:27 AM
AhamB
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #20 · Canon to Sony?...


schristie11 wrote:
So.....

How much would you have to spend to get an a900 with HD video option?

Your $6500 is a laughable comparison of apples to oranges.

PS: which Canon are you refering to that costs $6500?
Was it the EOS-1Ds Mark III - becasue originally it was $8000, now reduced to $6500 msrp since it is so old.
I think it was released 2-3 years before the Sony FF a900.
What would you have to of paid to shoot with a FF Sony pro body durring those 2-3 years?


This strain of discussion is really getting tiresome (it's going nowhere). Who are you trying to educate here?

I just don't get the point of stating the obvious over and over. Where are you going to buy a Canon with IBIS, now or in the coming years? You think this is useful discussion?

Tariq's comparison isn't laughable; you're just skipping over his last sentence. The 5Dmk2 isn't an acceptable alternative for the A900 if you want the pro build quality, viewfinder size and superior sensor (in resolution, low ISO quality, color reproduction). Only the 1DsmkIII fulfils the first two criteria.

Edited on Nov 26, 2010 at 01:54 AM · View previous versions



Nov 26, 2010 at 01:34 AM
1       2       3              8              10              13       14       end




FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              8              10              13       14       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account