This topic is in the 2010 archive. You can read it and like its posts here. It is read only.
Archive 2010Another useless comparison - 100mm
p.1 #1Another useless comparison - 100mm
In the spirit of the recent Todd Adamson useless tests over in the Nikon forum, here is a comparison of 3 100mm (roughly) lenses. I used a Nikon D3.
I am not looking at microcontrast or pixel-level differences, but rather, differences in the overall look and the boke, so I won't post many crops, just 2 in fact: one crop for CA, one crop for detail rendering.
I went for a walk in a cemetery, and snapped shots along the way, comparing the three lenses. Note that sometimes the light shifted, sometime the foliage moved in the wind, sometimes I was sitting in an awkward position and managed to blur something just a touch by moving, sometimes I forgot exactly where I focused and used a different place with the next lens, and I didn't have my tripod, so a very close pixel-by-pixel comparison is not possible.
Since I am not of the opinion that one can reliably pick out various lenses from just a single shot, I am going to present this a little differently. I am going to post 12 shots from each lens (plus the 2 crops), and tell you which belong together, lens A, B or C. I am not going to say which lenses I tested, until maybe tomorrow or the day after.
I have tried to minimize PP, only tweaking exposures very slightly for two shots which differed because of changing conditions. I have not done the usual sharpening and all that, just to show a baseline. There images are more or less straight import/exports from Aperture 3.
I would be interested in a discussion of which lens has the most pleasing look, and for what reasons. The final result may well surprise some. It has surprised me somewhat.
For reference, here are Todd Adamson's tests. I am not revealing yet if any of my tested lenses are the same as his.
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/940602
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/940944
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/944294
The photos come in threes, always in the order lens A, lens B, lens C.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Backlighting, near background:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/01A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/01B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/01C.jpg
Backlighting, far background:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/02A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/02B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/02C.jpg
Close-up, rear boke:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/03A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/03B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/03C.jpg
Close-up, bright rear boke:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/04A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/04B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/04C.jpg
Far subject, rear foliage boke:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/05A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/05B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/05C.jpg
Backlit leaves, CA:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/06A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/06B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/06C.jpg
Bright repeating subject, rear boke:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/07A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/07B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/07C.jpg
Detail, shadow, CA:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/08A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/08B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/08C.jpg
Far subject, front boke:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/09A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/09B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/09C.jpg
Close-up, 3D potential:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/10A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/10B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/10C.jpg
Backlit subject, light on lens (flare):
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/11A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/11B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/11C.jpg
Middle distance, red colour:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/12A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/12B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/12C.jpg
Backlit leaves, crop:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/15A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/15B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/15C.jpg
Rose, crop:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/16A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/16B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/16C.jpg
To keep this thread from getting heavier than necessary, please don't quote any images.
Let the confusion begin.
(NOTE: the answer is on page 3, so if you want to guess, don't read that page yet.)
Edited on Oct 10, 2010 at 01:18 PM · View previous versions
I am not looking at microcontrast or pixel-level differences, but rather, differences in the overall look and the boke, so I won't post many crops, just 2 in fact: one crop for CA, one crop for detail rendering.
I went for a walk in a cemetery, and snapped shots along the way, comparing the three lenses. Note that sometimes the light shifted, sometime the foliage moved in the wind, sometimes I was sitting in an awkward position and managed to blur something just a touch by moving, sometimes I forgot exactly where I focused and used a different place with the next lens, and I didn't have my tripod, so a very close pixel-by-pixel comparison is not possible.
Since I am not of the opinion that one can reliably pick out various lenses from just a single shot, I am going to present this a little differently. I am going to post 12 shots from each lens (plus the 2 crops), and tell you which belong together, lens A, B or C. I am not going to say which lenses I tested, until maybe tomorrow or the day after.
I have tried to minimize PP, only tweaking exposures very slightly for two shots which differed because of changing conditions. I have not done the usual sharpening and all that, just to show a baseline. There images are more or less straight import/exports from Aperture 3.
I would be interested in a discussion of which lens has the most pleasing look, and for what reasons. The final result may well surprise some. It has surprised me somewhat.
For reference, here are Todd Adamson's tests. I am not revealing yet if any of my tested lenses are the same as his.
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/940602
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/940944
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/944294
The photos come in threes, always in the order lens A, lens B, lens C.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Backlighting, near background:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/01A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/01B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/01C.jpg
Backlighting, far background:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/02A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/02B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/02C.jpg
Close-up, rear boke:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/03A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/03B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/03C.jpg
Close-up, bright rear boke:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/04A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/04B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/04C.jpg
Far subject, rear foliage boke:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/05A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/05B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/05C.jpg
Backlit leaves, CA:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/06A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/06B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/06C.jpg
Bright repeating subject, rear boke:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/07A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/07B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/07C.jpg
Detail, shadow, CA:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/08A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/08B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/08C.jpg
Far subject, front boke:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/09A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/09B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/09C.jpg
Close-up, 3D potential:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/10A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/10B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/10C.jpg
Backlit subject, light on lens (flare):
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/11A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/11B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/11C.jpg
Middle distance, red colour:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/12A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/12B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/12C.jpg
Backlit leaves, crop:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/15A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/15B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/15C.jpg
Rose, crop:
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/16A.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/16B.jpg
http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/100mm/16C.jpg
To keep this thread from getting heavier than necessary, please don't quote any images.
Let the confusion begin.
(NOTE: the answer is on page 3, so if you want to guess, don't read that page yet.)
Edited on Oct 10, 2010 at 01:18 PM · View previous versions
Oct 09, 2010 at 11:19 AM
p.1 #2Another useless comparison - 100mm
I like lens A the best. The highlight shows more clarity than the other 2. Looks like it is a smaller aperture lens than the other two. Lens A has the best flare control. The close up sharpness looks good here. Very close to lens B.
Lens B is more contrast in mid tone/shadow. The Backlighting, far background looks good here. Looks like stronger coating which might be the newer lens.
Lens C seems to have shallower DOF. Close up bokeh looks good but less contrast overall. This lens probably has larger aperture than the other two.
Lens B is more contrast in mid tone/shadow. The Backlighting, far background looks good here. Looks like stronger coating which might be the newer lens.
Lens C seems to have shallower DOF. Close up bokeh looks good but less contrast overall. This lens probably has larger aperture than the other two.
Oct 09, 2010 at 11:46 AM
p.1 #3Another useless comparison - 100mm
i'll go out on a limb and say that the first shots are from the nikkor 105mm f/2.5, the only f-mount 100ish lens i have any experience with. i presume one of the others is the zf, probably the middle one, but never having shot with one what do i know. i don't think i could make any judgements about lens performance from these types of shots other than drawing style.
edit: for the sake of trying to guess all 3 i'll say the last one is the nikkor 105mm f/1.8.
edit: for the sake of trying to guess all 3 i'll say the last one is the nikkor 105mm f/1.8.
Oct 09, 2010 at 11:48 AM
p.1 #4Another useless comparison - 100mm
I should have mentioned that I didn't shoot them all wide open, but at as close to the same aperture as possible. Thus, differences in boke are due to individual rendering factors, with one exception, which I will reveal later.
Oct 09, 2010 at 11:55 AM
p.1 #5Another useless comparison - 100mm
I should also add that I can add specific tests on request, including tripod shots, and more 100% crops.
Oct 09, 2010 at 12:08 PM
p.1 #6Another useless comparison - 100mm
Does anyone else see the crops as being as large as the other shots? I wonder why. They are much smaller 100% crops.
Oct 09, 2010 at 12:13 PM
p.1 #7Another useless comparison - 100mm
All the photos look pretty much same size.
I don't have any of these 100mm lens. My guess is that lens B is not Nikon brand as the color is slightly cooler than lens A and C. sebboh might be right.
which lens result do you like better?
I don't have any of these 100mm lens. My guess is that lens B is not Nikon brand as the color is slightly cooler than lens A and C. sebboh might be right.
which lens result do you like better?
Oct 09, 2010 at 12:20 PM
p.1 #8Another useless comparison - 100mm
everything is the same size on my screen as well. how did you make the 100% crops? also is the gear list in your profile up to date?
a liveview focused tripod shot of an object that doesn't move in the wind with 100% crop might be nice.
a liveview focused tripod shot of an object that doesn't move in the wind with 100% crop might be nice.
Oct 09, 2010 at 12:31 PM
p.1 #9Another useless comparison - 100mm
My vote goes to lens A for its excellent contrast and clarity (whatever that means). It does appear to have smaller max aperture and deeper perception of DoF with some 3D in the 1st shot. (Was it stopped down?)
Lens C is the mushier of them, with low contrast and overall lack of crispness - despite of it showing the most detail in the leaf shot. Lens B is somewhere in between.
Lens C is the mushier of them, with low contrast and overall lack of crispness - despite of it showing the most detail in the leaf shot. Lens B is somewhere in between.
Oct 09, 2010 at 01:25 PM
p.1 #10Another useless comparison - 100mm
I prefer lens B, followed by A, followed by C.
To me, B is the sharpest and most aberration-free, at least in the center, with the most pleasing bokeh overall. C tends to exhibit some very minor axial color but the largest blur circles, whereas A tends to exhibit more DOF and the smallest blur circles. B also shows the most contrast, and C the least.
A is most resistant to flare, followed by B, then C.
In some shots, A shows more vignetting than B. I am going to guess that lens A is about a half-stop slower than B or C. It's hard to ascertain because various sets are taken at different f-numbers; for those sets taken near maximum aperture, the slower lens will hit max aperture (and see more vignetting) than the faster lens.
To me, B is the sharpest and most aberration-free, at least in the center, with the most pleasing bokeh overall. C tends to exhibit some very minor axial color but the largest blur circles, whereas A tends to exhibit more DOF and the smallest blur circles. B also shows the most contrast, and C the least.
A is most resistant to flare, followed by B, then C.
In some shots, A shows more vignetting than B. I am going to guess that lens A is about a half-stop slower than B or C. It's hard to ascertain because various sets are taken at different f-numbers; for those sets taken near maximum aperture, the slower lens will hit max aperture (and see more vignetting) than the faster lens.
Oct 09, 2010 at 01:26 PM
p.1 #11Another useless comparison - 100mm
Interesting test Casten. Could you also post hyperlinks so that we can open them up in different tabs and do a side by side?
I seem to like lens A. For me the very first picture was very interesting and seems to have a signature to it that I may recognize
!
I seem to like lens A. For me the very first picture was very interesting and seems to have a signature to it that I may recognize
! Oct 09, 2010 at 03:06 PM
p.1 #12Another useless comparison - 100mm
To me, lens C is the most pleasing one, and it seems that this lens is a tad longer than the other two. Lens C bokeh is smoother, and that's probably why it has more CA than the other two. I suspect lens A is a Zeiss lens, since it has more 3D feel to it, and better flare control. Admittedly, I don't shoot Nikon. If I want pleasing look, lens C is the one to go. But personally, I would go with A.
Oct 09, 2010 at 03:10 PM
p.1 #13Another useless comparison - 100mm
sebboh wrote:
everything is the same size on my screen as well. how did you make the 100% crops? also is the gear list in your profile up to date?
a liveview focused tripod shot of an object that doesn't move in the wind with 100% crop might be nice.
I can look for something to answer that request. Are you looking for sharpness, front boke, rear boke, flare suppresion, ...?
I haven't looked at my gear list in ages, so I really don't know. I tend to buy and sell a lot over time. I won't look now for fear of jinxing anything :P
I cropped in Aperture. Exported, on my disk, the sizes are all around 300x450 pixels. I am not sure why they are stretched here. Perhaps because I initially made a mistake, and re-uploaded them, and they are sitting in a cache somewhere? Maybe they will flush by tomorrow and show up correctly then.
everything is the same size on my screen as well. how did you make the 100% crops? also is the gear list in your profile up to date?
a liveview focused tripod shot of an object that doesn't move in the wind with 100% crop might be nice.
I can look for something to answer that request. Are you looking for sharpness, front boke, rear boke, flare suppresion, ...?
I haven't looked at my gear list in ages, so I really don't know. I tend to buy and sell a lot over time. I won't look now for fear of jinxing anything :P
I cropped in Aperture. Exported, on my disk, the sizes are all around 300x450 pixels. I am not sure why they are stretched here. Perhaps because I initially made a mistake, and re-uploaded them, and they are sitting in a cache somewhere? Maybe they will flush by tomorrow and show up correctly then.
Oct 09, 2010 at 04:28 PM
p.1 #14Another useless comparison - 100mm
Very interesting comments from everyone, thanks a lot for humouring me.
Once I reveal the lenses, we cannot go back to this state of neutral, bias-free analysis, so I encourage everyone to ask for the shots they feel would reveal most of the lenses' character. Clearly I will not do anything like move to the near focus limit of each lens though
s23chang, I won't make any judgement calls myself yet, because knowing the lenses I am biased, even if I try not to be. Look what happens when I try to judge Nikon against Canon
Wickerprints, actually all the photos are taken at the same aperture, and all lenses too, with a single twist, which I will reveal later. The rendering style is the cause of any apparent difference in depth of field and blur circle size.
abhijeeth, if you go to the first post and hit the quote button, you should be able to get all the links.
hiepphotog, I forgot to mention, I think, but the lenses are not all exactly the same focal length, and even lenses of the same stated focal length often vary. I tried to neutralize any differences in focal length by moving back and forth slightly, but it wasn't scientific, so I might not have done enough, or even too much. I wouldn't try to guess anything based on that. I would focus on the rendering style.
Once I reveal the lenses, we cannot go back to this state of neutral, bias-free analysis, so I encourage everyone to ask for the shots they feel would reveal most of the lenses' character. Clearly I will not do anything like move to the near focus limit of each lens though
s23chang, I won't make any judgement calls myself yet, because knowing the lenses I am biased, even if I try not to be. Look what happens when I try to judge Nikon against Canon
Wickerprints, actually all the photos are taken at the same aperture, and all lenses too, with a single twist, which I will reveal later. The rendering style is the cause of any apparent difference in depth of field and blur circle size.
abhijeeth, if you go to the first post and hit the quote button, you should be able to get all the links.
hiepphotog, I forgot to mention, I think, but the lenses are not all exactly the same focal length, and even lenses of the same stated focal length often vary. I tried to neutralize any differences in focal length by moving back and forth slightly, but it wasn't scientific, so I might not have done enough, or even too much. I wouldn't try to guess anything based on that. I would focus on the rendering style.
Oct 09, 2010 at 04:37 PM
p.1 #15Another useless comparison - 100mm
carstenw wrote:
a liveview focused tripod shot of an object that doesn't move in the wind with 100% crop might be nice.I can look for something to answer that request. Are you looking for sharpness, front boke, rear boke, flare suppresion, ...?
i'd like to see sharpness and be able to see the continuous transition from in focus to out of focus (single object where the front is in focus the back is oof).
i'm curious about this twist you promised with regard to aperture. did you use a DC lens (i don't expect an answer soon)?
sebboh wrote
everything is the same size on my screen as well. how did you make the 100% crops? also is the gear list in your profile up to date?a liveview focused tripod shot of an object that doesn't move in the wind with 100% crop might be nice.
i'd like to see sharpness and be able to see the continuous transition from in focus to out of focus (single object where the front is in focus the back is oof).
i'm curious about this twist you promised with regard to aperture. did you use a DC lens (i don't expect an answer soon
)?Oct 09, 2010 at 04:59 PM
p.1 #16Another useless comparison - 100mm
Is the twist that the first lens is a shorter focal length shot on a crop body? That's a lot of depth in that first shot when compared to the other two, though I guess it could just be extremely front focused on the last two.
Oct 09, 2010 at 10:04 PM
p.1 #17Another useless comparison - 100mm
No, all were taken on a D3. The first shot from lens A is focused further back, same aperture. That was one of the shots where I forgot exactly where I focused, and only realized later. Sigh. There are a lot of factors to keep in your head when testing lenses. I got most of them, at least. Next time I should make a checklist.
Oct 10, 2010 at 12:56 AM
p.1 #18Another useless comparison - 100mm
I managed to fix the crops. I had to go to the server and rename the files, and then edit the links in the first post. It seems like there really was a cached copy somewhere in the pipeline.
Oct 10, 2010 at 12:57 AM
p.1 #20Another useless comparison - 100mm
Huh? I think it does quite well, or?
I think it does quite well, or?Oct 10, 2010 at 01:44 AM