n0b0 wrote:
If you can wait, then wait. There should be a price reduction on 5D2 when Mk3 is out.
Likely not. The 5D's are brought in at $3500 then go down to about $2500. Which is where Mk2 is now. It won't go any lower and if you want the latest model you'll pay $1000 more.
I don't know about the US market but here in Oz a camera probably loses a third of its value when you buy it.
The camera is as important as a good lens in my opinion. It controls automated exposure, focus, colour, noise, ergonomics, etc. You're stuck with it until you replace it all - there's no buying a new model sensor like we used to buy a roll of different film. And yet, it depreciates much faster than lenses do and much faster than film cameras used to do.
You have several different ways to approach camera purchases:
1. Get the best you can afford because it's the best, and can appreciate that fact. Wait just long enough for early adopters to prove it is the best and not a lemon. This is the most expensive path. And being the best does not necessarily make it the best for you e.g. if you don't shoot in bad weather and don't shoot moving subjects then do you really need a 1-series body? There's no point wasting money if you can't appreciate having the best. Top of the range models are disproportionately expensive.
2. Stay a model behind the current and know that you've saved a significant amount while still getting good performance, but risk the downsides of buying second-hand. e.g. a 1Ds2 now instead of a 1Ds3.
3. Buy new but one or two models below (not behind) the current best. e.g. a 7D or 5D2 now instead of a 1D4 or 1Ds3. This is the best way to save money provided you can be satisfied with the lesser model. You can afford to give that one away to a new friend and replace it for less cost than most people will lose on their top model in the same period. The image quality will be comparable to that of the top model from just a few years ago.
It used to take a couple of generations before lesser models reached or exceeded the performance of the 1-series models, but now it's less than that. e.g. 5D2 vs 1Ds3 but not so much the 5D vs 1Ds2.
4. Buy a current model second hand if it provides significant savings. Buying a new camera at or near the end of its model run is rarely a good idea if you're still paying top dollar because it will lose value in a shorter time when the replacement is released, and of course you'll miss the features of the replacement model without getting the benefits of having used the older model for a considerable period. Buying a second hand one would not be so bad even late in the production run.
Short of a breakdown, the performance of an old camera never gets any worse as it ages but our perception of its performance does get worse because newer models raise the bar of what is acceptable and what is good. If you can live with that then you don't to update very often and any of the options mentioned above will suffice because in the long term even an expensive camera is cheap in average $ per year. If you can't then you do need to update more frequently and your economic circumstances will direct you to the most appropriate option.
Canon usually announces new models in August/September or February/March each year, give or take. Every second year there is a boost with the bi-annual photokina in September. Buying just before the new models are announced is a dumb idea unless you really can't wait - especially if the model you want is approaching two years old like the 5D2.
I've had mine since the first batch was delivered 20 months ago. I'd like to see a mark III, but its not going to happen until 2011, maybe later. The cameras are selling fast, and there is no competetion, so don't expect a new one soon. Once the 1Ds MK IV is announced, it will be a year to the 5D MK III announcement.
Buy it when you need it. I just bought my MkII a few weeks ago. I guessed that it wasn't going to be upgraded this year and it seems like this is the case. Buy it and enjoy it. I tend to keep my gear around, until August, I was still using the 5D that I bought in early 2006.
So far I enjoyed lots of the posts and thanks all, I think Alan got many of my points. That's really a great post. Alan post describes clearly what I supposed would be buying a new 5DII right now.
@Alan, you are perfectly right with your advice looking for a second hand. I'm happy to buy one right now, if I can find it. I tried and found it very difficult. Lots of doggy sellers..
timpdx wrote:
Buy it when you need it. I just bought my MkII a few weeks ago. I guessed that it wasn't going to be upgraded this year and it seems like this is the case. Buy it and enjoy it. I tend to keep my gear around, until August, I was still using the 5D that I bought in early 2006.
+1... By the time the new 5D comes out, you will have gotten plenty of use out of the 5D2, which will be worth the little bit you would have saved by waiting. Also, not having to buy the new model as soon as it comes out will save you a bit too. The 5D2 hit the shelves in December-ish in my area, and were very hard to come by and were priced accordingly. I waited until March, and saved over $500.
n0b0 wrote:
If you can wait, then wait. There should be a price reduction on 5D2 when Mk3 is out.
To the OP, I see where folks have been acquiring the 5D2 thru the Canon Loyalty Program. From my understanding, you have to send them a dead Canon camera and they give value to it and deduct it from the cost of a refurbished unit. One guy got a 5D2 thru this program for under $1700. Something to consider.
@Methodical. Thanks for your advice, it will be great to read for those in the US. I'm in UK/Europe and it seems there is nothing like that here right now.
Despite all of the talk and the rumors and the speculation about how Canon times announcements... the truth is that no one who knows is talking. This, by itself, is probably enough to suggest that no announcement in imminent. The nature of the rumors typically changes as a real release approaches, and does so in ways that are not being seen right now.
Basically, what you have to assume is a) no one knows, b) it might be a long time, c) it could be in less than a year.
Another way to think about this question is to ask yourself what additional features an imaginary 5D2 would have, and what the value of those features might be for your photography. (Asking how it affects camera cost is an entirely different matter and perhaps not worth worrying about a whole lot.) For example:
1. Let's say that the MP count increased a little bit - perhaps to the mid- to upper- 20MP range. Would this make a difference to your photography? For several reasons, almost certainly not. First, in my view, it typically requires more or less a doubling of MP count to make a significant difference in resolution. Even here, beyond the current 21MP very few photographers will ever take advantage of the potential for increased resolution. Make a lot of 20 x 30 inch prints? Shooting from the tripod? In truth, with the current camera the MP cont is rarely the limiting factor when it comes to large prints.
2. Let's say that Canon improves the AF system, perhaps making it more like that of the 7D. This would be a fine thing, but how much difference would it really make for your photography?
3. Let's say that they improve the video mode? Is the current implementation not good enough for you? Are you a really big video user?
And so it goes. In general, most model-to-model upgrades are somewhat incremental. Yes, occasionally a significant change occurs. (The near doubling of MP count from the 5D to the 5D2 along with the addition of a movie mode and live view provide a good example.) But more often, the marketing hype exceeds the real magnitude of the changes.
And, yes, when the new model does get released, the monetary value of the previous model does decline. You can often purchase the older model for very good prices, but the sales value of your copy will decline, too. Fortunately, the older camera's ability to produce photographers doesn't change one bit!
Dan
sergiodg wrote:
There is quite a shortage, a sign the 5D II is imminent? If I understand right its price has been lowered.
If a (let's say) "5D III" comes out, what will happen to the value of a still under warranty 5D II?
I might be tempted for another upgrade and will hate to see the value of the 5D II fall considerably (20%- 30%)?..
If it was urgent to buy a 5DII I wouldn't ask this question. The need is there already just wanting to ask if it makes sense from a camera value point of view and time of purchase.
It is also an interesting topic to learn about the typical product management and strategy of Canon.. of course without having to use a crystal ball, what happened in the past to the value of the old camera with the introduction of the new one?...Show more →
FWIW I always buy at the very, very lowest price I can find, then treat my gear well and with care and then recoup perhaps 70% of the value by selling on ebay, sometimes more if I found a good deal.
@dhphoto. In case I decide to buy now, here in the UK it is hard to find any good deals with UK or even European warranty from trusted resellers, online or not. Buying from HK or US would make me an importer and it will be highly likely that I will be charged more than the difference.
I second scalesusa. Based on past history, you won't see a 5DIII until 9 months or later after introduction of 1Ds4.
And why should Canon introduce it sooner? What else from another camera maker competes with it? Canon has had a free ride on somewhat affordable FF cameras for the last 5 years.
sergiodg wrote:
@dhphoto. In case I decide to buy now, here in the UK it is hard to find any good deals with UK or even European warranty from trusted resellers, online or not. Buying from HK or US would make me an importer and it will be highly likely that I will be charged more than the difference.
There are no import duties on digital cameras imported into the UK....but VAT would be payable.
sergiodg wrote:
@dhphoto. In case I decide to buy now, here in the UK it is hard to find any good deals with UK or even European warranty from trusted resellers, online or not. Buying from HK or US would make me an importer and it will be highly likely that I will be charged more than the difference.
But that misses the point. Whatever you pay as the cheapest UK price everyone else has to pay too, plus the VAT increase next year will only send the prices up. You will get back the same proportion whenever you sell, you just have a higher initial outlay.
FWIW I just bought a Kiss X4(550D) kit from Hong Kong for about a third less than the UK price, even including the small duty I had to pay
I just did a comparison between the B&H US price for a 5DII body and the best price here (camera price buster). 57 quid difference.
Best time to buy was when Canon had the $100 instant rebate and Bing CB available. I got mine for $2159 new back in May.
I was in the same shoe, thinking if I should get the 5DII or wait for the 5DIII that is probably around the corner. But with the great deal and having a 20D was an easier choice for me to make back then.
Quib wrote:
You should buy a camera for making pictures, not for making money by selling it again...
I consider that I'm only ever 'renting' dslr camera bodies (not lenses) because I continuously upgrade as image quality improves. To have some sort of plan for resale is sensible IMO.
That said, I proabably won't sell my 1Ds3 as I have lost so much on it.
