saph wrote:
Just saw the discussion just above about the Z for longer lenses. I have the Df still, but for the 200-500 I have a feeling the pixels and the quality I will stick with the Z6.
I don't own any of the long MF exotics but do have the 200-500 which at 2.3kg still needs to be supported and not dangled from my D610. I usually attach a monpod to the lens and problem solved. On my recent trip to Edinburgh I took the 180 ED for a spin but since it rained non-stop I also had to hold a golf umbrella overhead whilst shooting. Poor light, very wet conditions and less than ideal camera holding technique meant my 180 keeper rate was low. A Z6 would have helped! Reminds me that I need to go and cull/process those shots.....
BiF - D500, 20MP, DX, 10 FPS, plus grip + 200-500VR. ($875 US for used body)
Macro - D810, 36MP (cropability), Laowa 100mm f/2.8 macro, Meike MT24 twin macro flashes on FotoPro DMM-903s flash bracket. ($1230 US for used body inc. grip, 6 batteries, 2x CF cards.
Landscape - D810
Why not the Z6 ? -
I had and have no interest (or money !) in getting any S series lenses even though they are amazing performers. The look of them leaves me cold.
The AF of the D500 is better for BiF plus 20MP and the crop factor.
CRUCIAL - the Z6 has no provision for a vertical battery grip (although I believe there is a dual battery grip on the way, no portrait orientation controls and the grip goes into the battery slot on the body - I had a grip on my D200 like that and water got in. Camera ruined.)
D500 + grip better balance than Z6.
Battery life - The Z6 is actually pretty good if you don't use Image Review or the back LCD, however I really do need to chimp both for BiF and macro to check critical focus. The D810 I have just bought used comes with 6 batteries, the D500 comes with 2 plus I bought 2 EN-EL15a when I had the Z.
I found the EVF really hard to use for macro, there is almost a movement blur when the shutter activates. Using a D800 previously I can literally see the subject is in focus. With the Z I was guessing for a lot of shots just like when I used to use a crop body.
Being able to crop those 36MP a bit also helps.
The Z is a feature packed camera with all the bells and whistles but a lot of settings are buried in the menus. eg changing from AF-S to AF-C to MF
Sure, you can program this to a Fn button but there are not many of those, I had 1 set to 100% Zoom to check focus and 1 set to select Non CPU lenses already.
My favourite astro lens the Rokinon 14mm doesn't work properly on the Z6. Weirdly, it was fine but then the aperture just started jumping around from f6.3 to f9. Common problem according to the internet.
The Z6 is an amazing camera for higher ISO and in body IBIS but neither of those things are important for my shooting.
The focus peaking and 100% zoom to check focus are brilliant for checking focus with fast primes but I can't use the zoom to check focus when I'm trying to capture a moving insect, hand held in breezy conditions.
I came back from India having used the XT-1 for 4 months and thought yup, mirrorless, full frame and for a travel camera I would have kept the Z for sure.
Those are some of my thoughts/reasons for the change, great camera, looks ok IMO (all dslrs etc are black bricks so the Z is no different. Could you make it sexier, style it like the Df ? I guess so.), very solid and well built unlike the XT-1 (the card and connections doors on that are a joke).
The FTZ looks fine if you ask me, no worse than any other generic adapter, fantastic performance for F lenses but my God it's noisy ! It's always whirring away doing something.
I guess you have to try it and see if it suits your style of shooting / lens inventory.
The owner said they were made for the (Montreal ??) Olympics In answer to Georges comment I thought he said F2.8 and I might have heard him wrong. Does yours have a 121mm front element Kevin? His does and it is a monster. It's non Ai and I've never seen one. Perhaps Jay can ad more info.
All I can add is this view, and the observation that it looked heavy and well built.
The fellow explained that it was the 1st f/2.8 ED model made for the Montreal Olympics
I shoot with a modern AF 300 f/2.8 that is a great performer, is usable on extended wildlife outings, but I would not want it heavier.
Interesting factoid after looking through the photosynthesis pages, the 300 2.8 pre-AI (the one on display by the guy above) had a preset aperture, the ring being the scalloped kind, and closer to the front of the barrel. The aperture itself consisted of 18 blades. Trying to imagine photographers using the lens with an F or F2 at the Montreal Olympics.
The AI 300 2.8 exchanged the preset aperture ring for the more modern (and less interesting) ring, which was situated at the rear. The number of blades got halved to 9.
The first pre-production Nikkor-H 300mm f2.8 was announced in 1971. A total of 72 units were made with serial numbers running from 603011 to 603082. This batch of pre-production lenses were exclusively for press photographers. Nikon was keen to release this lens before Sapporo Winter Olympics in Feb 1972, even though their in-house developed ED glass was still not ready yet. Nikon had to settle for a different glass material manufactured by German company SCHOTT GLAS. The first Nikkor-H 300mm f2.8 therefore did not carry the "ED" markings.
It may seem strange that Nikon chose to use pre-set aperture when designing this lens. Apparently, the advice Nikon had gathered from the professionals then was to give prority to high optical performance rather than automatic aperture. They believed that such lens would be used mainly at the largest aperture anyway. Stopping-down would only happen when time was not critical. Since there was no aperture linkage to worry about, Nikon could freely put the aperture at the most ideal location for optical desgin and use numerous aperture blades to achieve the best possible "Bokeh" (aesthetic quality of the blur in out-of-focus areas). Also, having the aperture and focus control in the front means that the entire forward section can be detached and used on the other optical systems e.g. Video camera. In fact, this lens, with an image circle covering 60mm x 60mm, was originally designed to be used as "Bronica-Nikkor" as well.
In Oct 1975, Nikon released the second pre-production 300mm f2.8 with Nikon's own ED glass. This was also the first lens ever to carry the "ED" markings. (The lens was marked as Nikkor*ED instead of Nikkor-H) Apart from the ED glass, Nikon also upgraded the lens with multi-layer coatings. It aimed squarely at the Summer Olympics in Montreal. Once again, the second pre-production version was made only in small quantity and was not available to general public. The serial numbers of the second version started from 604011. The highest recorded numbers are 604088 as illustrated in Peter Braczko's Book. The copy in my collection belongs to the second version with ED markings. Although my lens is in good cosmetic conditions and fully functional, regretably the previous owner decided to scratch out the serial numbers for unknown reason.
Reading through the discussion, I finally found where Ken said he did not swap his Noct for the 300 2.8. With only 70 odd samples produced, I think it wasn't too bad a bargain Ken
cadman342001 wrote:
I guess you have to try it and see if it suits your style of shooting / lens inventory.
Andy
Great real world use feedback, Andy. Thank you very much. Just about seals it for me. Your feedback on macro use and the view finder experience drops desirability to zero, for me.
saph wrote:
Reading through the discussion, I finally found where Ken said he did not swap his Noct for the 300 2.8. With only 70 odd samples produced, I think it wasn't too bad a bargain Ken
From a collectors standpoint you may be right. From a usability and everyday carry standpoint, I would not have traded my Noct either
Jose eloquently pointed me to early prog-rock music and reminded me (and others) of King Crimson being an early exponent of the genre
It had been many years since I last listened to that album. And I was never over enamoured with the 21st Century man track (a little too cacophonic for my taste, through the rest of the album is more melodic.
My personal taste went to an even earlier adopter of the genre. Released in 1967 a couple of years before KC
Days of Future Passed by The Moody Blues and purchased and well used before CD's were even thought of .....
In fact around the time of KC in 1969 I was at a concert in Salford (near Manchester UK) at the college (now University) they we're playing their latest and third Prog-Rock album To Our Children's Children's Children and I got it signed by all of the band members from that early line up. (Mike Pinder, Graeme Edge, John Lodge, Ray Thomas and Justin Hayward) Oh the things we did in our teen-age years in the 60's
I just had to play Days of Future Passed on the vinyl version. Though I can play it on the HomePod too ..... how times change.
Thanks Jose for the reminder ...... and yes I have a few prog-rock albums on vinyl ..... all in fairly good condition, some even mint.
Steve
as always Nikon on Nikon
Stokesey 2019
A stack of Moody Blues albums starting from 1967
Stokesey 2019
The Days of physcadelic art .....
To Our Children's Children's Children signed ......
Stokesey 2019
Music as it should be heard ..... Vinyl is always great
HCE HCE wrote:
The owner said they were made for the (Montreal ??) Olympics In answer to Georges comment I thought he said F2.8 and I might have heard him wrong. Does yours have a 121mm front element Kevin? His does and it is a monster. It's non Ai and I've never seen one. Perhaps Jay can ad more info.
All I can add is this view, and the observation that it looked heavy and well built.
The fellow explained that it was the 1st f/2.8 ED model made for the Montreal Olympics
I shoot with a modern AF 300 f/2.8 that is a great performer, is usable on extended wildlife outings, but I would not want it heavier....Show more →
Stokesey wrote:
On October 10th, I was given a history lesson
Jose eloquently pointed me to early prog-rock music and reminded me (and others) of King Crimson being an early exponent of the genre
It had been many years since I last listened to that album. And I was never over enamoured with the 21st Century man track (a little too cacophonic for my taste, through the rest of the album is more melodic.
My personal taste went to an even earlier adopter of the genre. Released in 1967 a couple of years before KC
Days of Future Passed by The Moody Blues and purchased and well used before CD's were even thought of .....
In fact around the time of KC in 1969 I was at a concert in Salford (near Manchester UK) at the college (now University) they we're playing their latest and third Prog-Rock album To Our Children's Children's Children and I got it signed by all of the band members from that early line up. (Mike Pinder, Graeme Edge, John Lodge, Ray Thomas and Justin Hayward) Oh the things we did in our teen-age years in the 60's
I just had to play Days of Future Passed on the vinyl version. Though I can play it on the HomePod too ..... how times change.
Thanks Jose for the reminder ...... and yes I have a few prog-rock albums on vinyl ..... all in fairly good condition, some even mint.
SiMuMe wrote:
Great real world use feedback, Andy. Thank you very much. Just about seals it for me. Your feedback on macro use and the view finder experience drops desirability to zero, for me.
No worries mate. It would be interesting to hear what others using it for macro think though. Jose perhaps you could share your experiences? I think he has a Z7 though.
The thing is, if we lived in the US we could just hire one for a week or 2 but here in Australia and presumably S.Africa the minimum hire period for camera gear is always 6 months and ridiculously expensive.
No dramas for me as I sold the Z for what I paid for it.
anitrone wrote:
Haven't posted in awhile however, I do come by often to check on this thread and give likes here and there...still love my Df, this one is my traditional October gremlin shot of Tuki with the 55mm F/1.2
These dog photos have the same "feeling" as your horse photos on the Df forum. These are different lenses - so it must be your technique/post processing - very pleasant and approachable!
saph wrote:
Interesting factoid after looking through the photosynthesis pages, the 300 2.8 pre-AI (the one on display by the guy above) had a preset aperture, the ring being the scalloped kind, and closer to the front of the barrel. The aperture itself consisted of 18 blades. Trying to imagine photographers using the lens with an F or F2 at the Montreal Olympics.
The AI 300 2.8 exchanged the preset aperture ring for the more modern (and less interesting) ring, which was situated at the rear. The number of blades got halved to 9.
The first pre-production Nikkor-H 300mm f2.8 was announced in 1971. A total of 72 units were made with serial numbers running from 603011 to 603082. This batch of pre-production lenses were exclusively for press photographers. Nikon was keen to release this lens before Sapporo Winter Olympics in Feb 1972, even though their in-house developed ED glass was still not ready yet. Nikon had to settle for a different glass material manufactured by German company SCHOTT GLAS. The first Nikkor-H 300mm f2.8 therefore did not carry the "ED" markings.
It may seem strange that Nikon chose to use pre-set aperture when designing this lens. Apparently, the advice Nikon had gathered from the professionals then was to give prority to high optical performance rather than automatic aperture. They believed that such lens would be used mainly at the largest aperture anyway. Stopping-down would only happen when time was not critical. Since there was no aperture linkage to worry about, Nikon could freely put the aperture at the most ideal location for optical desgin and use numerous aperture blades to achieve the best possible "Bokeh" (aesthetic quality of the blur in out-of-focus areas). Also, having the aperture and focus control in the front means that the entire forward section can be detached and used on the other optical systems e.g. Video camera. In fact, this lens, with an image circle covering 60mm x 60mm, was originally designed to be used as "Bronica-Nikkor" as well.
In Oct 1975, Nikon released the second pre-production 300mm f2.8 with Nikon's own ED glass. This was also the first lens ever to carry the "ED" markings. (The lens was marked as Nikkor*ED instead of Nikkor-H) Apart from the ED glass, Nikon also upgraded the lens with multi-layer coatings. It aimed squarely at the Summer Olympics in Montreal. Once again, the second pre-production version was made only in small quantity and was not available to general public. The serial numbers of the second version started from 604011. The highest recorded numbers are 604088 as illustrated in Peter Braczko's Book. The copy in my collection belongs to the second version with ED markings. Although my lens is in good cosmetic conditions and fully functional, regretably the previous owner decided to scratch out the serial numbers for unknown reason....Show more →
Samy your third para sums up what the owner said about this lens. The size and weight of this behemoth of a lens preclude me from owning it. I don’t know what its asking price was and can confidently say the Kiwi owner who has many long lenses in his collection passed on it.
I love my NOCT. It challenges me. Its a good fit for the Df and Z6. It covers my needs well. The 300mm lens would force me to give driving to photo sites in a Corvette and buy a station wagon. 😎
DeltaSigma wrote:
Interesting that you have ditched the Z series just as I am deciding whether to pull the trigger on one now that UK prices have dropped in preparation for the madness of Black Friday and the lead up to the end of year holiday season.
I would benefit from IBIS but hate the aesthetics of the adaptor so could see myself moving more towards S lenses and ditching most of my MF ones except for a chosen few. As I get older this kind of decision is getting harder to make.
I am just not digging my Z7 with adapter so far. So much so I left it home for Hawaii and took my AF gear and bought a D850 for the trip. I haven't sold the Z yet, hope to get some time to run it through the collection and see what I get. Thinking through things, it just seems like it or not Sony is ahead and I see little difference so far using my manual Nikors on the Z7. IE an adapter experience is just an adapter experience. It would be awesome if Nikon made A F7 Mirrorless for FMount. Then we might truly have something worthwhile.
I did drop the Leica but still have a Film Besha and some M lenses. I haven't sold the X-Pro 2 yet, it might just remain my rangefinder experience camera and just go adapter for glass.
How about a Mirrorless DF2 with a high DR High ISO rating, 24 to 36MP,. Now that would be my ticket!
Just back from my last trip of the season to Glacier NP - this time the west side for the magnificent tamarack (western larch) colors. For those who have not experienced this - it is truly awesome! The tamarack change is to northern Idaho/western Montana what the aspen change is to Colorado - except about a month later. This year's weather was not as kind as last year (true for all the autumn here this year), and its been a struggle to find good light.
I took my Df, as well as my Sony. Sure, the details from the A7RII are impressive, but I find I take better photos with the Df, despite constantly changing lenses (I shoot only legacy primes on the Df). I think it must be that I just plain enjoy the camera better - plus I rarely have to do anything but minimal PP. I guess I'll post the Sony ones on the 24-105 lens forum over there.
Putting the camper away for the season now (). It's a long time now til Spring. November in these parts is pretty bleak and colorless - maybe there will be mushrooms or something to shoot.
I know the Z has great output but reading the personal accounts here of using and interacting with the Z does give one pause. Putting together a hypothetical system around a Z7 for how I travel yields a weight savings of around 1 lb but that does not account for extra batteries for chimping (typically to look at the histogram and critical focus). But the savings in size and bulk is appealing......good thing the spending moratorium is in place.
Thanks to everyone who shared their experience or thoughts about the Z.
**edited some typos - I should really read the text carefully when posting from an ipad. :-)
graytrekker wrote:
Just back from my last trip of the season to Glacier NP - this time the west side for the magnificent tamarack (western larch) colors. For those who have not experienced this - it is truly awesome! The tamarack change is to northern Idaho/western Montana what the aspen change is to Colorado - except about a month later. This year's weather was not as kind as last year (true for all the autumn here this year), and its been a struggle to find good light.
I took my Df, as well as my Sony. Sure, the details from the A7RII are impressive, but I find I take better photos with the Df, despite constantly changing lenses (I shoot only legacy primes on the Df). I think it must be that I just plain enjoy the camera better - plus I rarely have to do anything but minimal PP. I guess I'll post the Sony ones on the 24-105 lens forum over there.
Putting the camper away for the season now (). It's a long time now til Spring. November in these parts is pretty bleak and colorless - maybe there will be mushrooms or something to shoot.
). It's a long time now til Spring. November in these parts is pretty bleak and colorless - maybe there will be mushrooms or something to shoot.
