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Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread

  
 
joe88
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p.523 #1 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


haven't posted in a while, a few more from Kyoto and Tokyo. Not sure if I posted these earlier
























Sep 28, 2012 at 09:11 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.523 #2 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Thank you Gary, Ron, and Joe! Indeed I am very happy that the RF seems to be spot on on the 35/2 wide open. This is my most used lens, almost 90% of the time, so it does help to get accurate focus.

As for the skin tones, I honestly deleted LR4 and upgraded to the latest version of PSE (11) that uses ACR 7.1. I have to say the profile of the M9 is very good. In my friend shot above, I only adjusted the WB to 2700K/25. I added +25 contrast and that was it. Nothing else. ACR 7.1 also visibly improves on the high iso performance of ACR 6.2 that I was using before.

Joe, my impression of the camera is that I love it! Almost everything is great about it, even the grainy noisy iso 2500. What I don't like is the display. The colors are off, the AWB looks terrible, it takes several seconds to show a sharp image (I shoot only dng, no jpg, so that could be the reason). That's about all. Many criticized the inability to check accurate focus but I didn't find it to be a problem. I enlarge 2-3 steps and the image is still clear and doesn't pixellate. That is plenty of magnification to check the focus for me.



Sep 28, 2012 at 10:24 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.523 #3 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


By the way, the B&W shots are beautiful, Joe. The first and especially the last are my favorites. Kirin is a great beer, I prefer it to Asahi

Ron, second and third are very nice!

Luka, love the one with the bird in the middle of the sun!

I have a question to you guys. Do you shoot compressed or uncompressed? It seems there is no effect on the final output except if you use Cornerfix or similar. Just curious about what you guys use.



Sep 28, 2012 at 10:32 PM
rscheffler
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p.523 #4 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Thanks Joe! One thing I like about the M9 (coming from Canon) is that the files in LR are often pretty close to how I would like them (other than WB), whether it's with Leica, Zeiss or CV lenses. Some files though, I do tweak a lot, such as the last tree set, simply because it was an extremely high contrast composition and wanted to bring it back more to how I felt it should look. As I've admitted previously, my sharpening approach is not sophisticated, primarily because I'm trying to avoid any work in PS, if at all possible. In LR I leave sharpening at the default 25/1/25 without any additional export sharpening. For the most part I find this is good for full-rez files, just to regain a bit of edge. For the web images I post here, I size them with Photo Mechanic because it's an app I already knew well and was comfortable with prior to LR. Unfortunately with it, sharpening is only on or off, there is not control over intensity. It's fine for many images, if a bit on the crispy side, at times. But for high detail scenes, such as tree branches and foliage, it can be too much, usually with the wider lenses such as 28 or 21mm. For the last tree set, sharpening was off for the 28 Cron and 21 Lux images, but on for the 50 Lux. I find images shot wide open, at least with the Luxes, tend to take that app's sharpening pretty well, because they're kind of creamy sharp to being with, rather than razor sharp. Not sure this helps any...

Very nice set from Japan, as always. Love the depth and the dark figures in the first two. The light from the vending machines has a nice, enticing glow to it.

Edward - I'd suggest running some wide open focus tests at farther distances, such as 3, 5, 10 metres as well as infinity, to see how it goes. My experience with my ZM50 Planar was that close focus accuracy was excellent, but slowly degraded the farther the subject was. At infinity the lens only focuses to about 100-200 metres and needs to be stopped down past f/4 for good sharpness. It could be I have a mis-calibrated copy, but some have stated this is due to the slightly different flange distance used by Zeiss compared to Leica.

Regarding DNGs, my understanding is that the compressed DNGs are lossy compressed, and possibly even 8 bit with a bit of added info to them (as strange as this sounds, it's what I recall Leica stating). I think it was explained in one of Michael Reichmann's (very long) interview videos with Leica back when the M9 was released. In any case, I've read a few posts about this, I think in the Leica forum, and the general consensus seems to be that you'd be hard pressed to see a difference between the two. In any case, I opted to stick with uncompressed, with the thinking of 'why discard image information?' I believe with the new M, the compressed DNG is finally losslessly compressed, so will likely switch to that.

May I introduce my aunt's barn...






M9 & 28 Cron

I stop by for a visit at least once a year (it's a 10 hour drive from home). And each visit, I spend a fair amount of time shooting it over and over, day after day. Interestingly, even though the compositions eventually are fairly similar, the lighting often is not, or the season. And every once in a while I find a new angle I hadn't previously photographed. In any case, it will be the subject of upcoming images, primarily detail shots, as I'm fascinated by its slow decay. Based on the partially legible cornerstone, it was built in the late 1890s...



Sep 28, 2012 at 11:55 PM
seekuh
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p.523 #5 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Joe, thank you very much for your kind comments!

I like your b/w conversion and the very strong contrasts. The second shot is my favorite because the entire scene has a very specific mood in it.

Edward, I would be reluctant to shoot compressed if it were any different than using uncompressed files. I did a lot of research in the LUF forum and even one of the technical guys representing Leica says that nobody has proven (yet) that there is any difference at all in the outcome or the way the files can be processed. So I do shoot compressed.



Sep 29, 2012 at 12:05 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.523 #6 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Ron, thanks for your input. This is also how I understand it, the compressed files are negligibly lossy, and shouldn't show any difference in normal use. I think I will stay with uncompressed unless I really have a good reason not to, like running out of cards or something like that.

As for your ZM 50, IMHO it is a deliberate choice by Zeiss even though they don't like to advertise it openly. Due to some little focus shift considerations, the lenses are designed to focus accurately at short distances WO, but if you focus at infinity WO, the lens does not mechanically reach infinity (but pretty close though). Once you stop down a couple of stops, the focus shift will bring it in focus. Note that at smaller apertures, it's not DOF that covers the difference. There is a real shift that happens that brings the exact plane of focus at infinity. I realized that while playing with the GXR at full magnification. You can actually see the focus plane moving as you change the aperture.

Love the barn shot btw. Peaceful and quiet.

Seekuh, thanks for your input as well. I am interested to know your personal choices about this matter regardless of quality, as I am aware there are long pages of debate on other forums with no clear conclusion, somewhat like filter or no filter threads

Edited on Sep 29, 2012 at 12:21 AM · View previous versions



Sep 29, 2012 at 12:11 AM
seekuh
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p.523 #7 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Yesterday there was kind of a presentation of the new Leica M at the Leica store Munich. I think some of you guys might be interested in my thoughts.

It was possible to take the M and try it out. However, we were not allowed to insert an SD card, which was clear to me because it was not allowed at Photokina either. The firmware is not ready yet and Leica apparently wants to prevent customers from publishing pictures that don't mirror the capabilities of the final firmware. Fair enough.

It was a pleasure to try out the M. The build quality is as expected and similar to that of the M9. Being used to the M9, it felt strange to me to have a quickly responding screen in a body like that. After using the M the M9 felt like a dynosaur. I love my M9 but the response time of my camera felt really annoying. Dynosaurs are quite lovely though.

The presenter also gave us the additonal handgrip and the R adaptor. It was possible to use the M with some R lenses that were available in the store. Liveview works fine and focus peaking seems to be nicely implemented as well. Personally, I don't have R lenses and shooting via liveview for me wasn't the same experience as when looking through the rangefinder window.

I took some shots at ISO 3200 and zoomed in on the display. It's hard to tell but the photos seemed to be very crisp and without noticeable (if any?) noise. I'm very confident that Leica will manage to provide excellent ISO 3200 files and very usable ISO 6400 files.

The weight difference to the Leica M9 was easy to tell: the M is about 100 g heavier which is about one sixth of the total weight of the M9. I don't want a Leica camera being heavier than my M9 but the weight of the M was acceptable and not that much of a difference. I think I could get used to it although I was sceptical before.

After using the M I liked it much more than what I expected from the product photos on the internet. I'm absolutely sure that the camera will become very popular and that it will sell easily. It's incredible how well Leica managed to improve the M9 and implement the new features (for some of which you would need the accessories though).

The presenter also had an M Monochrom with him. This camera is sooo beautifu! I liked it from what I've seen on the internet but it's so gorgeous (can you actually say that about an item?) in real life. I would love to have it but really don't have a justification for it since the M9 produces wonderful files that easily can be transformed into excellent and state-of-the-art b/w files.

Alas, the new 50 mm Summicron APO wasn't available.

So what's my conclusion? The M is going to be a really great camera and the M Monochrome is the most beautiful camera I've ever seen. However, I'm not going to buy either of these cameras since my investment in Leica products is currently at its limits. I wish I could have the M but it's too much money for me right now. Having expensive lenses is fine since their value remains relatively stable. It's not the same with cameras. Maybe the next M will be for me.



Sep 29, 2012 at 12:14 AM
seekuh
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p.523 #8 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


edwardkaraa wrote:
Ron, thanks for your input. This is also how I understand it, the compressed files are negligibly lossy, and shouldn't show any difference in normal use. I think I will stay with uncompressed unless I really have a good reason not to, like running out of cards or something like that.

As for your ZM 50, IMHO it is a deliberate choice by Zeiss even though they don't like to advertise it openly. Due to some little focus shift considerations, the lenses are designed to focus accurately at short distances WO, but if you focus at infinity WO, the lens
...Show more

As far as I know the lossy part only concerns parts of the files that don't include valuable information anyway.



Sep 29, 2012 at 12:17 AM
seekuh
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p.523 #9 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


And here is a photo showing the M with EVT, R adaptor and an R zoom lens.






(taken with the M9 and the 75/1.4) (I assume you guys would have preferred if the camera and not the eye was the point of focus - sorry for that)



Sep 29, 2012 at 12:20 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.523 #10 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Seekuh, you make me drool from your description of the M

I plan to get one even though I just bought a brand new M9. Hopefully it won't be widely available too soon



Sep 29, 2012 at 12:27 AM
 


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rscheffler
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p.523 #11 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Hilmar - thanks for the report! Sounds very promising about the M. And I agree, your description of it has me sold already! Do you work for Leica, by chance?

Having never seen the MM in person, I have a strong feeling I know exactly what you mean... and I think that way even more about the MM's files. Really beautiful to work with in post.

I'm also extremely curious about the 50AA and would love to have access to one for a few days. Based on some MM images I've seen made with it, if it wasn't so freaking expensive, I would contemplate replacing the Lux with it. The one stop loss likely will be made up by 1-2 stops better high ISO performance of the new M.



Sep 29, 2012 at 12:38 AM
seekuh
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p.523 #12 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Yes, the 50AA is very expensive although I'm convinced it isn't overprized. I think the prize is justified by the enormous cost of development. According to the Leica presenter Leica (Peter Karbe) wanted to show what is possible in terms of a technical statement. He said the lens was better than any other lens available on the market, including medium format lenses.

I would also love to have this lens but I can't probably justify buying it. And since I don't buy the M it would be hard to loose one stop (or even two as I own the Noctilux). In fact, last night I bought the Summilux 50 ASPH again after selling it a couple of weeks ago. I'm so stupid because now I'm back where I was: Summicron 50 rigid, Summilux 50, Noctilux 50. Too many lenses and actually I would definitely love to reduce my kit. The simpler, the better. Very annoying but I feel I can't abstain from any of these lenses. There are reasons for having all of them: the Summicron has a very nice and specific rendering, the Summilux is the only lens of the three that has a MFD of 70 cm and the Noctilux is its own league anyway. Still, it bothers me having three 50mm lenses.

Ron, have you ever considered buying a Noctilux?



Sep 29, 2012 at 12:49 AM
joe88
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p.523 #13 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Thanks Edward, Ron, Hilmar!

Edward, Kirin or Asahi will do for me, after a few rounds I can't really tell the difference Glad that you are enjoying the camera! With time (and without the M Type 240 to directly compare), you'll get used to the ancient firmware and quirks of these digital Ms. Hilmar is right to use the word "dinosaur". I normally shoot compressed DNGs. I tend to skip the jpegs. What you might want to do is test out your various SD cards for compatibility with the M9. Some cards and shooting modes (continuous) can create banding, even on lower ISO shots. Ron has mentioned this prior. Over at LUF, I think the older Transcend Class 10 cards were highly recommended.

Ron, very nice barn shot and thanks for the tips on sharpening. Informative!

Hilmar, thanks for the report! I've pre-ordered mine two months before the launch .. and you know what? the dealer told me that there was already a long wait list before me I totally agree with you, the Monochrom is seductive.. and wait till you look at the files side by side with the M9, it will be hard to resist

rscheffler wrote:
I'm also extremely curious about the 50AA and would love to have access to one for a few days. Based on some MM images I've seen made with it, if it wasn't so freaking expensive, I would contemplate replacing the Lux with it. The one stop loss likely will be made up by 1-2 stops better high ISO performance of the new M.


With 24Megapix on the M Type 240, I think the 50AA would be superb. I agree its really expensive and hard to justify but if you compare it to the S lenses or even some of the medium format lenses, its priced comparatively. The 50AA looks like a real winner! I won't be getting one anytime soon, too much $$ thrown at the cameras right now.

---
A vertical composition of one I posted earlier








Sep 29, 2012 at 01:02 AM
rscheffler
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p.523 #14 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


seekuh wrote:
Ron, have you ever considered buying a Noctilux?


I have not seriously considered it. In some respects it's about the price, though I will hopefully get the new Canon 200-400, which will probably cost about the same. I think it's more about the size and weight. One of the reasons I decided on the M system was because the lenses are relatively small, especially compared to what I was carrying around for my DSLRs. The 50 Lux is still relatively small. The 29 Cron is small... Compared to the 16-35 zoom the 21 Lux is small. I'm also not sure I need that much more subject/background separation for my 50mm images. And so far f/1.4 has been fine in most low light situations.

That said, I just noticed the Leica Store Munich has a used 50 f/1....

I think what interests me the most about the 50AA is in part what Adam was able to confirm with the copy he tried - it has a very flat plane of focus and would make focus and recompose RF focused images easier than with the Lux ASPH. And in some of the samples I've seen online, where it was shot against the 50 Lux ASPH, there were noticeable differences between the two in favour of the 50AA towards the outer zones with better sharpness. But, the 50 Lux ASPH is already excellent, so it's really splitting hairs. Yet the 50AA is nice and small. It will be interesting to see how the new Zeiss 55mm f/1.4 monstrosity compares against it. That too is a tempting lens, but it's so huge I doubt I will consider one unless it's optically extremely impressive.

To continue the peaked roof theme:







50 Lux ASPH. The wood is so ancient and bleached that it has an iridescent silvery shimmer when the sun reflects off it at the right angle. I'm sure you know what I mean... But it's difficult to capture that look 'on film.'



Sep 29, 2012 at 02:26 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.523 #15 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Ron, very nice shot!

Joe, thanks! This is the same card the store owner recommended. It seems to work fine.

Ok, another question: What profile do you think is better, embedded or adobe standard? I find adobe standard to give more pleasing colors with the M9, while the embedded is better for the GXR. What do you guys prefer? Thanks!



Sep 29, 2012 at 01:50 PM
seekuh
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p.523 #16 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the Noctilux, Ron.

The Noctilux is in fact very heavy. Among my other lenses I had it with me on my trip to New York. As much as I like the look of this lens I hate its weight. The 50 Lux is very small and light in comparison. I'm not sure I want to travel with the 50 Noctilux and all of my other lenses again. I cannot count how often I have thought that I might get rid of the Noctilux (because of its prize and weight) and be happy with the 50 Lux. And I actually did get rid of it (two times in fact). So I don't want to make the mistake again although the 50 Lux is also a stellar performer. I wish I didn't know how the Noctilux draws. :-)

Ron, yesterday I asked the staff to allow me to put the Noctilux f1 on my M9. It was the first time I tried this lens but in comparison to my Noctilux I didn't like it much. I definitely prefer the rendering of the Noctilux f.95 although Charles has constantly proven how nice a Noctilux f1 can be.

Finally one more image from New York (Summilux 24):







Sep 29, 2012 at 03:04 PM
charles.K
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p.523 #17 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Joe, thank you, and really appreciate your comments Great shots from Tokyo and Kyoto! Love the vertical composition of your previous post.

Ron, wonderful shot and story about the dog. My favourite is the 50 Lux, and amazed with the 21 Lux Love your Aunt's barn, and thanks for your sharing your tips on sharpening

Edward, congratulations on the your M9!!! Very nice shot and particularly at 2500 ISO. I always shoot uncompressed, as I feel there is less losses. The difference may not be all that visible.

Ash, very nice shot from Ocean road

Hilmar, many thanks for sharing the report on the M! It is great to continue to get confirmation that the M will be all that it has been promised.
Really nice capture in New York with the 24 Lux!
I agree with you , the Nocti 0.95 would be sharper and better corrected than the 1.0, but for the price, size and weight the f/1.0 was a borderline purchase for me, and for me I love the Mandler designed lenses. They can be more difficult to work with, but I do love the renderings for portraits and the like.



Sep 29, 2012 at 06:04 PM
Gary Clennan
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p.523 #18 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Very nice Ron and Hilmar. Here is a couple from a walk this afternoon....



















Sep 29, 2012 at 06:47 PM
rscheffler
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p.523 #19 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Hilmar - cool shot! I like the look of that time of day when the street and ambient lighting mixes about evenly.

I guess I'd have to try the current Noctilux for a while to see how it would work for me. From various samples, it seems to have quite similar rendering to the 50 Lux ASPH. And now the 50AA also looks quite similar. So it might be a matter of picking the 50mm you need based on speed (and budget) rather than purely rendering.

I think this is where the old f/1 Noctilux comes into play, and which Charles has so nicely illustrated in his images - it has a considerably different, if more difficult, rendering. I would probably think of it for similar applications to the 5cm Nikkor I borrowed a few months back. It was great for those applications where I didn't want modern perfection. But no doubt, for my daily kit, it's modern glass.

Edward - I use the Adobe profile. I also like its look better than the embedded version.

Thanks Charles and Gary. Gary - interesting glow and swirly-ness - 5cm Nikkor?

50 Lux ASPH stopped down a fair amount, probably around f/11:























Sep 29, 2012 at 06:50 PM
Jim Schemel
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p.523 #20 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Ron - last one is my favorite of the set.
-Jim



Sep 29, 2012 at 07:25 PM
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