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Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread

  
 
cuonghuutran
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p.42 #1 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Beautiful images Luka.

denoir wrote:
Thanks Dmitri & Charles!

http://peltarion.eu/img/leica/x1_103.jpg

http://peltarion.eu/img/leica/x1_104.jpg

http://peltarion.eu/img/leica/x1_106.jpg

http://peltarion.eu/img/leica/x1_102.jpg

http://peltarion.eu/img/leica/x1_105.jpg





Oct 02, 2010 at 08:54 PM
cuonghuutran
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p.42 #2 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Image quality of M* X* cameras made my jaws drop. Well, someday I will save up enough. This is a review of M9 from a long-time Canon users on a Canon forum!

http://www.canonrumors.com/reviews/the-leica-m9-experience-review



Oct 02, 2010 at 08:56 PM
charles.K
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p.42 #3 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Great shots Joe! The depth and richness of tones are amazing with the M9, even though the web does not do it justice.


Oct 02, 2010 at 10:21 PM
joe88
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p.42 #4 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Thanks Charles

Yes, the tones and especially the dynamic range from the M9 is amazing .. I would say approaching Medium Format?

Recently, I made some drugstore 4R family prints with shots from both the M8 and D700 and I could immediately tell the M8 prints from the D700, much much sharper and richer prints. No disrespect to Nikon but the M8 with the 40 year old Cron made my D700 and 85 1.4 look like it was out of focus



Oct 02, 2010 at 10:48 PM
zombii
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p.42 #5 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Beautiful beach shots Charles. You're killing me, I want to be back in Hawaii so bad!

Nice B&W shots Joakim! Really like the first on in particular. Love the mood.

Very good shots Joe!



Oct 02, 2010 at 11:41 PM
charles.K
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p.42 #6 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Thank you Rod !
Amazing portraits Rod!!! Love them all as they have a different feel to each. What a strikingly interesting model. I really like the rendering with the 50 Lux, but the Hex 50 is very close, or maybe I am just biased Beautiful B&W conversions.



Oct 03, 2010 at 01:52 AM
zombii
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p.42 #7 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Thanks Charles! Yeah, she's got a great face. I agree about the Hex. Similar but seems like a little lower contrast in these shots yet a little more contrast in the restaurant shots I took the other night. I'll have a better idea when I get the UV/IR filter for it. By the time I got to using it, the sun was very low and she was very red before I started PP. The Canon is really different color as well as lower contrast. All the shots with it were at 1.4. I like it as an alternative look. We'll see if that lasts. The Lux wows me almost every time I use it.


Oct 03, 2010 at 02:11 AM
denoir
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p.42 #8 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Thanks Cuong!

Great street shots Joe and nice portraits Rod! I like the B/W conversions in both cases.


joe88 wrote:
Yes, the tones and especially the dynamic range from the M9 is amazing .. I would say approaching Medium Format?



Hehe, nice try Joe but DR is one of the things that rules out the M9 for me. It has 7 stops of usable dynamic range while my 5DII has 9 stops. A Nikon D3X - the best 35mm in terms of DR has 10 stops. A lower end digital medium format camera back has about 12 usable stops while the top end are at 14 stops today! That's the dynamic range you get from film. Now for portraits or street photography - the types of things the M9 is best at DR isn't all that important. But for landscapes it is critical. It's one of the things that attract me to digital medium format...

Erwin Puts on M9 DR:
http://www.imx.nl/photo/leica/camera/page159/page159.html

Interestingly it looks like the M8 had one stop more of DR than the M9. The X1 has also about 8 stops of usable DR and I definitely do miss that extra stop from the 5DII. On the plus side it has actually a more usable RAW latitude as it does not suffer from noise banding at low ISO in the shadows as the 5DII does. If they don't fix the noise banding in the 5DIII or 1DsIV I'll seriously consider switching to Nikon.

Anyway, a couple of X1 shots. I was shooting with my DSLR and discovered that I had the X1 in my pocket so I shot a few frames with it just for the sake of using it..





















Oct 03, 2010 at 03:48 AM
joakim
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p.42 #9 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Thanks guys!

Joe, nice documentary photos from Boston. I like the first one best with the guy to the right walking out of the photo, I think that adds a lot of dynamic to the composition.

Rod, great model great portraits. nice to see different lenses used in the same way and sharper isn't always better for portraits



Oct 03, 2010 at 03:58 AM
joe88
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p.42 #10 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Thanks Rod, Luka and Joakim

Rod, excellent portraits! I like both the color and & B&W versions. The 50Lux is super sharp and detailed, I would not have known that this is the pre-Asph version. The Canon has a kind of dreamy look to it and I think the Hex somewhere in between?

Hehe Luka, you caught me this time
I don't know why but maybe its something about the way the M9 captures the data on the RAW files for me, very smooth. And yes, please keep the X1 in your pocket all the time so that we can see more excellent pics from you. If I only look at all the X1 pics from you here, I cannot find fault in the pics but when I switch over to your Zeiss pics with the 5DII, I can see the IQ difference and understand your concern with the DR. Thanks for sharing



Oct 03, 2010 at 06:01 AM
 


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charles.K
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p.42 #11 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Excellent shots Luka! Really like #1 and 2. Love to see your work with MF. I don't think it is if, but when


Oct 03, 2010 at 06:07 AM
denoir
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p.42 #12 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Thanks Joe & Charles!!

Joe, a lot of it could be due to the rendering style of the glass. There is a certian je ne sais quoi about Leica rendering. It's much more subtle than Zeiss glass and can produce some really refined images. Zeiss rendering is much more flamboyant which is nice for making dramatic shots but sometimes the Leica approach is better.



Oct 03, 2010 at 09:47 AM
cuonghuutran
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p.42 #13 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


denoir wrote:
The X1 has also about 8 stops of usable DR and I definitely do miss that extra stop from the 5DII. On the plus side it has actually a more usable RAW latitude as it does not suffer from noise banding at low ISO in the shadows as the 5DII does. If they don't fix the noise banding in the 5DIII or 1DsIV I'll seriously consider switching to Nikon.

Anyway, a couple of X1 shots. I was shooting with my DSLR and discovered that I had the X1 in my pocket so I shot a few frames with it just
...Show more

5D Mk2 noise in shadow is definitely disappointing. Leica photos have the clarity that 5D Mk2 does not. Canon 1D photos also have such clarity but its color gradation is "coarse" (for lack for better terms) to my eyes. Its clarify tempted me to add 1D as my backup now that its price is rock bottom, but I could not pull the trigger because of its color gradation.



Oct 03, 2010 at 10:43 AM
cuonghuutran
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p.42 #14 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


denoir wrote:
Thanks Joe & Charles!!

Joe, a lot of it could be due to the rendering style of the glass. There is a certian je ne sais quoi about Leica rendering. It's much more subtle than Zeiss glass and can produce some really refined images. Zeiss rendering is much more flamboyant which is nice for making dramatic shots but sometimes the Leica approach is better.


Same thought here and you expressed it eloquently :-). Zeiss is like digital CD in early days -- flashy, attention catching, dynamic. But after a while, I retreat to my LPs. For portraits, I definitely prefer Leica rendition.



Oct 03, 2010 at 10:45 AM
jhapeman
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p.42 #15 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


denoir wrote:
Hehe, nice try Joe but DR is one of the things that rules out the M9 for me. It has 7 stops of usable dynamic range while my 5DII has 9 stops. A Nikon D3X - the best 35mm in terms of DR has 10 stops. A lower end digital medium format camera back has about 12 usable stops while the top end are at 14 stops today! That's the dynamic range you get from film. Now for portraits or street photography - the types of things the M9 is best at DR isn't all that important. But for landscapes
...Show more

I had an M8.2 and have had an M9 since November 2009 and I have to say that DR is not a problem at all. I'm pretty skeptical of Puts in general, but something is not right about those tests, IMO. For starters, the sensor in the M8.2 and M9 are essentially identical, with the M9 sensor being an updated full-frame model of the one used in the M8.2. In my experience, the M9 has not been shown to have less DR than my M8.2, and in practice, I don't find it to have less than my 5DII had.

The M9 has less headroom in the highlights, but much more range in the shadows. As a result, you have to expose it differently than you would expose the Canons, which have a good bit of room in the highlights but not much in the shadows.

Bottom line: In my experience, DR is not a problem on the M9 if you expose properly.

Jeff



Oct 03, 2010 at 11:49 AM
denoir
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p.42 #16 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


cuonghuutran wrote:
Same thought here and you expressed it eloquently :-). Zeiss is like digital CD in early days -- flashy, attention catching, dynamic. But after a while, I retreat to my LPs. For portraits, I definitely prefer Leica rendition.


Oh, I would not go that far myself. To me Leica rendering can be an interesting variation but I'm a Zeiss fanatic through and through

I prefer Zeiss rendering for portraits as well - the 35/1.4, 35/2 and 85/1.4 being favorites.

jhapeman wrote:
I had an M8.2 and have had an M9 since November 2009 and I have to say that DR is not a problem at all. I'm pretty skeptical of Puts in general, but something is not right about those tests, IMO. For starters, the sensor in the M8.2 and M9 are essentially identical, with the M9 sensor being an updated full-frame model of the one used in the M8.2. In my experience, the M9 has not been shown to have less DR than my M8.2, and in practice, I don't find it to have less than my 5DII had.

The
...Show more

The relevancy of DR depends very much on what you shoot. The DR by numbers are not something that Puts is alone to claim - there are plenty of other tests that confirm it. If it is an issue or not depends on the subject. For landscape photography it is very relevant, but then again the M9 is not exactly the best system for that anyway (no live view, focusing system, form factor, pixel count etc). For those things where it excels - social photography, street photography, portraits etc DR is much less of an issue.

Anyway, a few more X1 shots. I know I've complained quite a lot about this camera but I feel now...that I have not complained enough! The perhaps worst thing about it is the low keeper rate that I get from it. In part it's because of the AF system, in part because of the completely unreliable metering system, in part because of camera shake and last by not least in part because of the difficulty of getting a composition the way I want when using the external optical viewfinder. The worst thing is that the camera is so slow and the LCD so bad that it is not practical to check an image after you've shot it to see if it is OK.




























Oct 03, 2010 at 03:00 PM
carstenw
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p.42 #17 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


denoir wrote:
Hehe, nice try Joe but DR is one of the things that rules out the M9 for me. It has 7 stops of usable dynamic range while my 5DII has 9 stops.


The 5D2 may have 9 stops of useful information in a test (or several), but using it (I have one on loan right now), I find that the highlights burn out quickly, and the shadows are prone to noise, not to mention the low-ISO banding so often mentioned, the latter of which I admit I haven't seen personally, but it has been well documented. The highlights burning out quickly is something I am really struggling with. I see it in many shots which I would normally have exposed well. I started by exposing as metered. After a day, I moved to -1/3. Now I am using -2/3 and I still see it often. None of these are issues with my D3 or M8.2. There is some kind of discontinuity between what we can measure and what we perceive (and feel).

I also don't like the reds produced by the 5D2. I took a carefully exposed shot of my daughter's brand-new fire-engine-red pushbike (Laufrad), and the red came out somehow luminous, more orange or perhaps pink somehow, and too bright. I find that reds burn out very quickly with the 5D2, and it was the same with the 5D that I used to own. My D3 tends to have flat greens if I am not careful, but I think I am more emotional about reds, so I prefer the D3. If the 5D2 really had 9 stops of pleasant-looking information, I could just underexpose everything and get my highlights and reds back, but then the noise comes into the shadows, so something doesn't compute.

The skintones on the 5D2 look really good, on the other hand. I am not sure if it is related to the exaggerated reds, but I find it easier to get nice skin tones with the 5D2 than with the D3. Ultimately I am not unhappy with the D3 in this aspect, but clearly there is some room for improvement there.

Another point: the 5D2 has much more resolution, I can see it in every shot, and it has been measured in tests. Still, when I look at the pixel level (verboten, I know), I see something which I don't like. There is a fakeness there, a kind of aquarel feel to the rendering, an overly processed look. The pixels don't feel real. When I zoom in on the D3, and especially on the M8.2, I feel more of a positive connection with what I see. There are less pixels, but somehow they are more direct and not so vaguely representing the world. This is also something I have seen with my old 5D, and didn't really like.

I cannot properly justify any of this, so don't get upset if you don't see it or agree, just my opinion.

One day when the prices come down a bit (after the D4x is released?), I will pick up a D3x to complement my D3, and I think at that point, I will be done with camera purchases for quite some time. I am already very happy with the D3 and M8.2, the only missing aspect being greater resolution, and perhaps more dynamic range.



Oct 03, 2010 at 03:50 PM
jhapeman
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p.42 #18 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


denoir wrote:
The relevancy of DR depends very much on what you shoot. The DR by numbers are not something that Puts is alone to claim - there are plenty of other tests that confirm it. If it is an issue or not depends on the subject. For landscape photography it is very relevant, but then again the M9 is not exactly the best system for that anyway (no live view, focusing system, form factor, pixel count etc). For those things where it excels - social photography, street photography, portraits etc DR is much less of an issue.


Would you mind pointing me to any other DR tests? I can only find one other test, the one from DxOMark, and it shows that the M9 has a tiny bit MORE DR than the M8, and both it and the M8.2 are not much different than the 5DII:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Camera-Sensor/Compare-sensors/(appareil1)/640|0/(appareil2)/250|0/(appareil3)/483|0/(onglet)/0/(brand)/Leica/(brand2)/Leica/(brand3)/Canon

This actually matches my real-world experience--I have owned and extensively used all three of these cameras.

As for your assertion about the M9 as a landscape camera, you are sorely mistaken in my opinion. Many people have shown--in this very thread no less--that the M9 is a superb landscape camera. I love using it for landscape shooting. There is a whole thread of images devoted to the M9 for landscapes over on the GetDPI forums:

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13523

Jeff



Oct 03, 2010 at 06:24 PM
joe88
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p.42 #19 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


jhapeman wrote:
The M9 has less headroom in the highlights, but much more range in the shadows. As a result, you have to expose it differently than you would expose the Canons, which have a good bit of room in the highlights but not much in the shadows.



Jeff, now that you mention it, this confirms what I'm experiencing with the M9, not very much headroom in the highlights but much more in the shadows. I had quite a few shots taken in aperture priority mode where I had to bump up the shadows, sometimes by at least 1 to 2 stops. The details in the shadow is actually very good, much better than my M8.

But even when the highlight blows on the M9, its a very smooth transition and not as abrupt as my recently sold D700. I'm still trying to get used to the metering on the M9 bur overall I am very happy with the camera.

Joe



Oct 03, 2010 at 07:06 PM
joe88
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p.42 #20 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


nice shots Luka

My opinion is that The X1 is basically a compact camera with a large sensor and a very nice Leica glass. I think in general, these compact cameras. as in the past with film, will always be a few steps behind the larger cameras from Nikon, Canon, etc in terms of IQ, operation, etc.

Not to detract from this Leica thread but since you shoot mostly with a tripod, ave you considered trying the NEX with a compact CV wide angle or Leica glass? Probably not as compact as the X1 but seems quite capable.

Joe



Oct 03, 2010 at 07:19 PM
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