Your logic is not helping me to avoid buying the m9. Some good points. There is one thing for me, at this price I think a three year warranty would probably push me over..but that third year is another $500.
I'll probably just buy one when I stop being a consultant and get back to the 9-5...if you guys don't persuade me with your wonderful shots before then. :/
On the age comment...I'm not sure it's relevant completely...I sometimes think that I could die tomorrow, so what am I waiting for. Bt then I get pragmatic again. So maybe all of us should live like that to a degree. There's always tomorrow until there isn't. :/
Oh and Paul, you can clean the sensor yourself. Luka what did you recommend last...the copper hill kit?
Actually, I think the M9 will hold it's value pretty well considering you get to use it for a year or two. I've had mine about a year, and if I use it at least another year before a new camera comes out, well, not to bad. If I get 5K, and rebuy at say 8K, well... not bad.
But my strategy may be I use it until.... 8K was a lot to pay, it has to last for a while! I also like the file size too. So, unless there are significant advantages, I'll use my M9. My disposable is not what it was either, it gets harder to cover these expenditures right now. Have to move more slowly than I have at times.
Makten wrote:
This is sort of funny, because even if I'm probably the least rich guy in this thread, I don't care at all about the resell value. When I eventually buy an M9, I must count on not getting any money back from it in the future.
I want it because I like it and I intend to use it til it fails one day. I bought my D700 new and now, three years later, being able to sell it at all is just a bonus. It's been really cheap in terms of cost per time even if I'd drop it on concrete tomorrow (no insurance).
The M9 is twice the price of what the D700 was back then, which still isn't very much money per month if I can use it as much as I want, and if I keep it for three years I could as well live with not getting it sold at all in the future.
$7000 over three years is $6.5 a day. And if you are lucky, you'll probably get at least $2500 back if you sell it then (like the M8 today)....Show more →
This makes a lot of sense provided that what you are eminently satisfied with what you're buying.
When the D700 came out, I was all over it (twice, both times new), since I had the lenses, and the camera had everything I wanted for a DSLR.
I think there are some areas where the M9 could see some improvement, so with those things in the back of my mind, I'd be looking forward to the M10, to see if it solved any of those issues (which it probably won't). Then at that point, the infrequently used M9s will go on sale from (very) casual photographers, I'll strike!
Makten; I totally get you on your little calculation there.
For me the M9 simply is "out of reach", not financially, but practically, since I don't shoot enough to justify the cost. Even if I spread it out over a period of a few years. Further down the line I feel I can grab a used one at a reasonable price and hold on to it until it literally falls apart.
Conclusion; The M9 isn't perfect, but it is certainly good enough for me. I'd rather wait and pay a lesser premium to have a keeper M9 than pay up now. I can wait a little longer. Prices will drop, question is not if, but when. When I sold my M9 I got myself a little play money to spend on lenses and "stop gap" cameras with the hope of keeping the lenses and get another M9 later on. Or whatever the market churns out that is my flavor of the milennium.
Paul Yi wrote:
Thanks everyone for nice comments....
How do I clean the sensor?
Do I have to send it to the Leica service center?
The simplest way i clean my sensor is...
Shoot at bulb mode without a lens in a clean room, and while the shutter is open and camera facing down i use my giottos rocket blower on the sensor. This works for me as i am reluctant in touching my sensor with those swipes
Edwin, I avoid swabs as well, I have never cleaned a sensor yet, but I am also pretty particular about where I change lenses, or try to be. rocket blower is my friend as well.
h00ligan wrote:
This is the biggest problem for me. I would spend $20k on gear, if it's 17k on lenses and 3k on a body..but 7k for a body that drops like a rock, I can't justify it yet. Plus then even finding lenses. There are some m9’s for sale under $6k but then what..you sane a thousand dollars but have either no warranty or limited warranty..one repair wipes out the savings. Rally to make it worthwhile buying used it needs to be $4500 or less tbh, that won't happen til the m10 comes out.
Actually, here's another idea for you - just rent your gear. I can rent a 50 Lux or a 35 Lux for $30 for the weekend - pick up Friday after 3, return Monday before noon. I only usually shoot heavily over the weekends anyway. If anything it could be a nice way to see which lenses you feel like you would want to own vs. just rent for occasional use (probably going to put this into practice with the 90 AA).
Gary Clennan wrote:
Thanks Edwin - you do know how close you live to Puerta Galera - right?
Yah I know the place but haven't been there yet. Family trips this 2011 were more on other Asian countries. Next year, God willing, it will be other places in the Philippines and top of the list is Puerto Galera and Corrigidor We've done Boracay and Subic in 2010
Makten wrote:
Unfortunately, I'm out of luck regarding the financial plan. Handelsbanken Finans don't give loans on more than 10% of ones yearly income, which in my case is way too low. Kind of silly when you can take a loan for a house at 40 times the price, but that's the way it is.
So, if I sell all of my Nikon gear and the M8 I can afford an M9, cash. But I then have no money at all for the 50.
I'm definitely not buying anything on Ebay. This stuff is way too expensive for taking any risks if something goes wrong. So I'll just have to wait, or sell the Summicron and get something cheaper.
I don't think you understand how much money this is in my world. I'm a simple man and I never ever buy anything expensive except for camera gear, and that's really cheap compared to the stuff that most other people buy, like cars, furniture and so on. ...Show more →
Wow, I thought average ukrainian guy is in more trouble than one from civilized European country. I'm simple man too with montly income somewhat more than 200$. In Ukraine you can loan out 10000 UAH (~1240$) any day you wish and 50000 UAH (~6200$) if you're more than 25 years old (I'm 22). I took two loans from different banks to purchase 105 VR and 50/1.8G. The first one comes from Ukrsibbank. They have nice terms for private clients and by agreement with them I am allowed to take additional loan on sum of 50000 UAH. It would be useful due to willing to acquire D700, a pair of quality lenses and maybe SB900 which I would never be able to buy having a cash in a pocket. But here comes a problem: at the summer they changed their terms to lower the sum of additional loan to 20000. It would be enough to buy only Distagon 35/1.4 ZF.2 or Makro-Planar 100/2 ZF.2 (between both I still can't choose one) and this says I have to wait for my 25th birthday with lousy crop-sensor body. As for Leica, there are loads of useful reviews and samples (one more reason to read this thread) and to tell you truth, I'm not convinced to wish any Leica stuff. Maybe I should contact my friend in Kiev who uses M8.2 with 28 cron, 35 cron, 50 lux ASPH and 75 cron to take a try and then decide to dig deeper in those debts... Wish I had embryo of management talent, maybe then the business couldn't be so troublesome.
Technician wrote:
It would be useful due to willing to acquire D700, a pair of quality lenses and maybe SB900 which I would never be able to buy having a cash in a pocket.
What makes you think you should buy expensive stuff from a loan if you can't buy them in cash after some time of saving money.
If you don't make enough money to buy them in cash, please just buy something cheaper. I can imagine buying a house on a loan, or maybe a car. But a camera with would drop in price faster than you can pay off your loan and rent is just stupid.
That's simple: you'll have the gear from the very start. While you're saving the money time is flowing away. Imagine for how long period I will save up without ability to touch what is desired. Something cheaper? D700 is the cheapest Nikon FF DSLR.
charles.K wrote:
SKumar, there are many distributors here in Oz. When I was searching for the 21 SEM, I put my name down, with WA, SA, Vic and Qld distributors, and found a lot them calling up, with other lenses that arrived, 18 SEM, 21 Lux/Elmarit, 24 Lux and 50 Lux's. My understanding there are still the 18 SEM and 21 Lux/Elmarit available in WA. It pays to follow up as the distributors themselves are not fully aware of the stock that is arriving
I looked into renting at least for a weekend before buying..however the one pace that rented just went under. Leica had promised to send me a m9 to test since at academie they made some very bad choices and the cameras were filthy..maybe I'll call them.
That new cv nokton is actually very convincing. I'm surprised how good the results are..nice shots.
Technician wrote:
That's simple: you'll have the gear from the very start. While you're saving the money time is flowing away. Imagine for how long period I will save up without ability to touch what is desired. Something cheaper? D700 is the cheapest Nikon FF DSLR.
Off course, but know at the end you pay a lot more for the same thing. So instead of time, money is flowing away.
And you will still be paying for that D700 when there is an D900. Or when you want to buy your first house.
If it costs you several years to save that amount of money you might have to face the fact that what you desire is to expensive for you. So no FF nikon indeed.
There's a huge difference between being able to afford something, and the be able to buy it.
Bijltje, you're right on idea that being a forever debtor is a bad thing. Other than that I deny any expences at lines which have no intersections with photography, because I do realize for certain that those things aren't necessary to make a living, they won't make the life much easier. But for broken-hearted person (which I am) there might be something to enlighten the way in the dark, something that I should do for small community around me, something by what someone will remember 'that guy' in the future. Feel free to call this pathetic and defective — that's the way it is. You can't imagine how often I hear what an irredeemable shit I am. Photography in a manner helps to not to give up, it's a form of compensational mechanism in the world of my own. I realize that the gear won't solve any problem, won't answer on existential questions but to some degree it'll bring some comfort to the photographing process which I love heartily. I am trying to grow up as a 'tog, trying to do different things (with varied success) and of course do feel some constraint in tool usage. I don't need latest and greatest, but a tool with which I could get to like and use it for a very long period of time without appearance of those consumerism-driven thoughts of better spec-wise instruments availability. Crop-sensor body is definitely not in that class as autofocus isn't too. Crop is the waste of lenses, tiny VF implies really hard conditions at focusing and thorough composing — that's why I wish to acquire desired as soon as possible at any cost. Maybe I'm too young to make an overview on everything and from the stellar height of life experience make a right decision, but what else I have to do?
