I have both the 50 1.2 Nokton and the 90 2 Cron APO and it took me a little while to really get good at focusing wide open with them but I got it and by far prefer it over auto focus. For anything I don't need to shoot wide ofrclose to wide open and I would argue that is most of the time I usually zone focus. Works great nad yo really learn to trust those DoF scales because they work. But that also takes a bit of practice to get good at.
1bwana1 wrote:
You are a brave man. I am just beginning my Leica experience as well. I invite you to participate in my Learning Leica M thread. I am sure we can learn from each other's adventures with Leica Range Finders.
That being said, I don't hold myself out as an expert by any stretch. So, read my thoughts below with that in mind.
If the EXIF data shown with your images is correct, you were shooting at very wide open apertures. This has two effects. It makes getting critical focus very very difficult with MF and Range Finders. It is probably unrealistic with moving subjects like a child. Second, lenses are less sharp at these apertures, often giving a dreamy appearance to the image. This dual personality of many lenses is a wonderful thing. Dreamy wide open, extremely sharp stopped down a couple of stops.
The next thing I noticed is that you were shooting at ISO 400. One thing I am finding in my M10 experiment is that with the sensors in these camera you can shoot at much higher ISOs and still get very high IQ. That enables you to shoot stopped down a bit even in lower light. This make getting critical focus mush easier.
One technique I have found in situations similar to what I see in these images is to set the drive mode to one of the continuous modes, focus with the Range Finder, then rock ever so slightly back and forth while taking multiple shots. This can compensate for the very shallow depth of field. You can then pick the best out of the batch.
That is a beautiful child. You are a fortunate Father. Enjoy every moment.
You have to admit that the Leica colors and rendering are beautiful in those images. One of the things that make Leica cameras special. To heck with the critical focus. The images are beautiful. You will love these pictures the rest of your life.
Some great words by Bresson on sharpness
"I’m always amused by the idea that certain people have about technique, which translate into an immoderate taste for the sharpness of the image. It is a passion for detail, for perfection, or do they hope to get closer to reality with this trompe I’oeil? They are, by the way, as far away from the real issues as other generations of photographers were when they obscured their subject in soft-focus effects."
Henri Cartier-Bresson
"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."
Henri Cartier-Bresson
Heres some good info on manual focus. If you don't want to read the entire article (though it's all good BTW) scroll down to near to bottom manual focus section. It's the next to last section https://www.artphotoacademy.com/the-leica-look/
1bwana1 wrote:
You are a brave man. I am just beginning my Leica experience as well. I invite you to participate in my Learning Leica M thread. I am sure we can learn from each other's adventures with Leica Range Finders.
That being said, I don't hold myself out as an expert by any stretch. So, read my thoughts below with that in mind.
If the EXIF data shown with your images is correct, you were shooting at very wide open apertures. This has two effects. It makes getting critical focus very very difficult with MF and Range Finders. It is probably unrealistic with moving subjects like a child. Second, lenses are less sharp at these apertures, often giving a dreamy appearance to the image. This dual personality of many lenses is a wonderful thing. Dreamy wide open, extremely sharp stopped down a couple of stops.
The next thing I noticed is that you were shooting at ISO 400. One thing I am finding in my M10 experiment is that with the sensors in these camera you can shoot at much higher ISOs and still get very high IQ. That enables you to shoot stopped down a bit even in lower light. This make getting critical focus mush easier.
One technique I have found in situations similar to what I see in these images is to set the drive mode to one of the continuous modes, focus with the Range Finder, then rock ever so slightly back and forth while taking multiple shots. This can compensate for the very shallow depth of field. You can then pick the best out of the batch.
That is a beautiful child. You are a fortunate Father. Enjoy every moment.
You have to admit that the Leica colors and rendering are beautiful in those images. One of the things that make Leica cameras special. To heck with the critical focus. The images are beautiful. You will love these pictures the rest of your life.
Thank you all! And thank you Steve for the kind words and help. I've enjoyed your M experience thread. I definitely love the colors. Now that I've cleaned the viewfinders (they were filthy) and it's brighter out, and I don't have tired eyes or wine in my stomach I can focus much better now.
I've been stopping down the lens some as suggested and it's much more forgiving. I've also played around with zone focusing and will continue to do so. The hit rate is obviously lower now than with an AF body, but I'm sure it will improve. But the experience of shooting with it is much more enjoyable and somewhat addictive.
I ordered a mint used m10r in silver as I really do like it and feel I need more than just a few days of a rental to get the hang of it. I will keep my SL2-s/Sony for AF needs but may sell my Q2.
Regarding zone focusing, my CV lenses don't have the focusing tab like the Leica lenses do, so those are a little harder to zone focus without looking at the lens. At least it has nice hard stops.
Sorry to clutter up the image thread with text. I'm sure I'll be sharing some more images soon.
lifeandmylens wrote:
Rented a M10r a few hours prior and risked my daughters 1st birthday pics with a rangefinder. I was worried they'd all be out of focus. I was right but only slightly.
Tired eyes, dark interiors, dirty viewfinder, a glass of wine, a baby that moves and no experience with a RF was quite the experience!
That said, any tips for using the focus patch on faces?
If in doubt, slightly front focus because it looks better than slightly back focused. And at wide apertures, as already suggested, focus bracket by moving your body back and forth slightly.
When you receive your 'new' M10-R, sit down with it and all your M lenses and shoot focus tests with all of them. Easiest way is to use the EVF, focus with it in magnified view, then look at the RF patch and see if it's perfectly lined up. If not, make a mental note of how far off it is and when shooting with a given lens at or near wide open, 'mis-focus' the RF patch by this amount. From my experience, the wide open focus hit rate can be surprisingly good considering you're not viewing through the lens. If any of your lenses have focus shift, repeat the test 1, 2 and maybe 3 stops from wide open to determine how much more you'll need to compensate the RF patch alignment.
You may also benefit from a viewfinder diopter correction eyepiece, depending on your eyesight. It certainly helped me a lot. Don't bother with the viewfinder magnifiers. They're a hassle to use and IMO just get in the way.
At normal viewing distances and sizes, slight mis-focus usually isn't noticeable. Also, most non-photographers react to the emotional content of the image rather than the technical quality, so it helps to view images in this light when making your selects.
rscheffler wrote:
If in doubt, slightly front focus because it looks better than slightly back focused. And at wide apertures, as already suggested, focus bracket by moving your body back and forth slightly.
When you receive your 'new' M10-R, sit down with it and all your M lenses and shoot focus tests with all of them. Easiest way is to use the EVF, focus with it in magnified view, then look at the RF patch and see if it's perfectly lined up. If not, make a mental note of how far off it is and when shooting with a given lens at or near wide open, 'mis-focus' the RF patch by this amount. From my experience, the wide open focus hit rate can be surprisingly good considering you're not viewing through the lens. If any of your lenses have focus shift, repeat the test 1, 2 and maybe 3 stops from wide open to determine how much more you'll need to compensate the RF patch alignment.
You may also benefit from a viewfinder diopter correction eyepiece, depending on your eyesight. It certainly helped me a lot. Don't bother with the viewfinder magnifiers. They're a hassle to use and IMO just get in the way.
At normal viewing distances and sizes, slight mis-focus usually isn't noticeable. Also, most non-photographers react to the emotional content of the image rather than the technical quality, so it helps to view images in this light when making your selects.
Ron, real content is what Bresson thought important. Not so much exact focus and I would say he was a no non-photographer. He just put his priorities in the right order and the proof is in his amazing photographs.
airfrogusmc wrote:
Ron, real content is what Bresson thought important. Not so much exact focus and I would say he was a no non-photographer. He just put his priorities in the right order and the proof is in his amazing photographs.
Thanks, I appreciate that about Bresson. And that was kind of my point - that most non-photographers won't really care if a photo is a bit out of focus. They're drawn by emotionally compelling content. But we're in an equipment/technical discussion forum and this question comes up from time to time. Some want to be able to get perfectly focused photos of their cats, dogs, kids, etc. wide open to satisfy their pixel-peepiing desires.
Heresy, I know, but I've never been an HCB fan. As Robert Frank said about HCB: "You never got the feeling that he cared about anything except how beautiful it looked."
rscheffler wrote:
If in doubt, slightly front focus because it looks better than slightly back focused. And at wide apertures, as already suggested, focus bracket by moving your body back and forth slightly.
When you receive your 'new' M10-R, sit down with it and all your M lenses and shoot focus tests with all of them. Easiest way is to use the EVF, focus with it in magnified view, then look at the RF patch and see if it's perfectly lined up. If not, make a mental note of how far off it is and when shooting with a given lens at or near wide open, 'mis-focus' the RF patch by this amount. From my experience, the wide open focus hit rate can be surprisingly good considering you're not viewing through the lens. If any of your lenses have focus shift, repeat the test 1, 2 and maybe 3 stops from wide open to determine how much more you'll need to compensate the RF patch alignment.
You may also benefit from a viewfinder diopter correction eyepiece, depending on your eyesight. It certainly helped me a lot. Don't bother with the viewfinder magnifiers. They're a hassle to use and IMO just get in the way.
At normal viewing distances and sizes, slight mis-focus usually isn't noticeable. Also, most non-photographers react to the emotional content of the image rather than the technical quality, so it helps to view images in this light when making your selects.
