Hmm... the whole colour managing thing is a can of worms anyway
I must say that this thread and the bulk of my 5D is pushing me towards buying a M8. I like the concept of having a "window-like" viewfinder, but at the same time I loathe using focus-recompose with AF lenses so I'm not sure if rangefinders are to my liking. the Fuji X100 might be a good compromise...
Since the Leica SF 24D is the only flash that I feel is compact enough for use with the M9...
How do people feel about it?
Is it decent, or should I just get a metz or equiv. flash for cheaper?
What "automatic" features would the SF 24D have over a generic small flash?
With no bounce orientation on the SF-24D, you'll struggle with getting a nice, soft fill effect. There are some modifiers that can sit ahead of flash (like "S-Fill"), but they are somewhat gadgety. I liked the SF-24D size for sure, but the result images tend to scream - taken with a flash. I had a couple keepers, but much fewer than hoped... If Leica would commission Metz to redesign the flash with a 90 degree tilt option for the flash head, they'd have a really nice flash. Next up, I'd like a Thumps Up that replicated flash contacts. SF-24D with bounce and Thumbs Up with flash contacts? The need for Summilux's would go way down. Conspiracy theory here? Yes, yes indeed!!!
Should add - the SF-58D is a nice flash, but behemoth atop a M8 or M9. If there was a Thumbs-Up with the flash contacts, I could probably deal with it. But it's big! Not much comment on performance. It seemed okay, but I didn't last too long with it. The size was a deal breaker and without a Thumbs Up to leverage the weight against, it felt awkward at best. Just my $.02 of course. I know other people get along quite well with the SF-58D.
Ryan, Daniel, Joe, Luka and Joakim.... Thanks a lot
Ryan, yes Carsten and Joe were right....it was the 50 Lux Asph, my favourite, except for Daniel's 75 Cron AA
Daniel, all my files are worked in proPhoto RGB in CS5, but then converted in 3 stages for web presentation 3000/2000/1024px with mild sharpening in all stages, all in sRGB colour space. This is meant to alleviate any problems with viewing on the web. Even with this sometimes IE 8 has issues with colour management, having none. This may have more to do with other colour management programs running concurrently on the computer. IE 9 will have 64 bit version and is meant to be colour management, so there should not be any conflicts viewing in IE 9, while running other programs on the computer. FF/ Safari and even Chrome have less issues!
Adam, I have the SF58 flash unit, and my reasoning was if I needed flash, rarely that I do with the faster lenses, that I needed a unit that had TTL metering and bounce controllablity. Have a look at Reids review on the SF58 If you opting for a smaller flash such as the SF24, I would go for a generic flash such as Metz, and run A or M. From what I have read there have been a few issues with the SF 24 flash not working well with the M9. Correct me if I am wrong though! I do understand John's veiwpoint too, it may be too large. For me, it is a love/hate relationship with flashes. If I go too small and inflexible flash, the shots look like the stunned rabbit, and if I put up with larger size, I do get the wonderful lighting and shots, but I have to put up with the size!
John, very nice shot!!! There is a feeling amongst some that the 35 Lux Asph I is better from a rendering view point. Interesting discussions so far in a number of forums! For considerably less dollars the chrome or titanium version 35 Lux I is being sought after.
Joakim, nice shots! Must be the 50 Lux with the smooth rendering
Still no ducks, but found a couple friendly swans....
ZM 21 f/2.8 shot around f/8
And this one was shot into the sun. The ZM 21 2.8 will flare, as you can see here. I had a few that were worse than this in compositions where the sun wasn't in the frame, so in some ways it may be somewhat similar to my experience with the TS-E 17 (will flare more with specular light sources just outside the frame)
I like the above shot quite a lot, though am a bit unhappy that I blew out the sky to this extent..
SF24D works with the M9's TTL/GNC Charles, it fires a pre-flash and meters then adjusts flash output etc. If you're in 'A' on the camera you'll get a very P&S looking shot, if you've set your shutterspeed/ISO manually on the camera you can determine that the flash is mostly fill.
thrice wrote:
SF24D works with the M9's TTL/GNC Charles, it fires a pre-flash and meters then adjusts flash output etc. If you're in 'A' on the camera you'll get a very P&S looking shot, if you've set your shutterspeed/ISO manually on the camera you can determine that the flash is mostly fill.
SF20 only works in A & M on the M9.
Daniel, thanks for the heads up
Ron, great shots! Very nice rendering, and swans too ... better luck maybe
Thanks Charles I agree with you on the flash. SF24 is a nice size but does not have bounce. On the other hand, the size of SF58 or a Metz 54i is too cumbersome on the M8/9.
I'm curious with Dan (thrice) and your experience Charles, when set to TTL mode, how much delay is there between the preflash and actual flash on the SF24 or SF58? Can you clearly see 2 flash output (ie with a slight delay), or is it very fast like the Nikon/Canon speedlights? I tried to use GNC(TTL) on my Metz 54i on the M9 and I can clearly see a delay between the 2 flash sequences, annoying, as my subjects think that the preflash is the actual shot and start to turn away before the actual exposure. I'm now using A or M mode on the Metz to avoid this.
Wow, all interesting points to consider, thanks guys!
The problem with the SF58 is that it's to large atop a M9, and at that point I'd be shooting events and I'd be using my 5DII+580EXII combo.
Charles, I suppose you're use to the idea of a big flash coming from a DSLR, that's probably why you can handle the SF58!!
The reason I asked about the SF24D is because it's tiny-ish and I'd probably do as Thrice said and set my settings to mimic actual indoor exposure, then I'd just have the flash hit my subject with a little light, maybe even dialed down a bit less then proper exposure.
I was wondering how the pre-flash metering thing worked, now I know it isn't just a full manual flash, I may consider trying one.
The lack of bounce doesn't really bother me for the application I had in mind, but a rotating head would have been a nice feature for a more serious flash user.
You're pushing me over the edge...I need my leica back so I can go shoot some ducks and park benches
Joakim, I like your pressure gauge shots..they are a better version of a shot I took that I won't share here since it wasn't shot with anything leica...always interesting to see worldwide similarities so ar apart, mine were from a museum though..a science museum.
charles.K wrote:
Adam, I am sure with your back ground, you will make just about make any flash work on the M9
Daniel, the guys are great in Melbourne! I glad I could help
Some shots again with 50 Lux, from my trip to Thailand.
Shot 1 Raw processed in ACR with 50 Lux profile as per X Rite in Daylight.
Shot 2 Raw processed in C1.
Side by side comparison. Not ideal as you cannot nail the PP specifically. But this was an attempt to PP visually as best the image could be presented.
BTW, I was looking at the way you processed both photos, and honestly I think both converters work fine, at the end of the day it probably boils down to personal preference for which one people consider the "better" photo.. And again whatever converter you're faster with, or more use to using is probably the one you should stick with. I like LR3 better then Aperture3, but when it comes to video I like apple over adobe..
To be honest, since the M9 isn't a work camera for me, most of the time I just set everything manually (WB,shutter,aperture,ISO) when I enter or exit a room and I shoot jpg only *gasp!*. This is partly why I have a wish for liveview and a better screen, it would take a lot of the guess work and calculations out of my WB settings.. Then again sometimes I'm lazy and just full auto everything n pray for the best
I just BTW missed out on a like new SF24D for $110 USD locally which is like a steal of a price, and well worth it for "testing" with.
Adam I agree! There is not much difference between the two raw convertors. My only obsevation is that C1 has the ability to yield richer colours if needed. I do like how everything plugs into ACR/CS5 including the X Rite profiler. Having both programs, I will still compare for a while.
Unlucky missing on the local steal of a bargain... got to be quick
which is like a steal of a price, and well worth it for "testing" with.